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Lilly14

Brother watches very Haram stuff, what should I do?

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7 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

So why are you listening to his demands? Tell him that unless he changes and shows you that he has the ability to become a  better Muslim, you wont find him a wife.

We didn't know he was watching porn and using dating sites. I just found out and my mom doesn't know either of those. I wanted to avoid a direct confrontation and causing drama, but the more I think about it, I have to tell my mom at least about him using the dating sites. So he can decide what he's going to do with his life before we involve a Muslim girl.

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1 minute ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Isn't snooping / spying haram? Isn't it amongst the big sins. I haven't read upon your issues. But shiachat really isn't a good place to ask for advice. This is a discussion forum. 

 

I didn't mean to find either of these things out. I wasn't snooping. The burden of carrying this secret thus far has been suffocating. None of the mods have chided me or warned me so I think I'm OK. Personally, I would rather Shia people seek advice in times of confusion from the Shia ummah, than be told that a forum isn't a place of advice and feel they are being pushed away from the ummah. 

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A 30 year old man living in west, peak on his desires & unmarried!!
Its not an easy task for him to remain that much religious as you expect. Good men at his age become sinful because they fail to close the doors for shatan, which only marriage can do. Hence it is said that marriage protects half the religion & shatan gets very much dissappointed when a young man gets married. For each day of delaying in marriage, God forbid he may sink into more sins.
So, do not dig up too much, don't be too much emotional, be understanding, give him marriage as early as possible. As he grew up in a religious family, Inshallah he will be even better than previous once his psychological & physical desires are met in a lawful way.

4 hours ago, Lilly14 said:

He had casually mentioned how a lot of Muslimas these days are only Muslim on the outside and that if we didn't find someone like he wanted,  he'd rather marry a non-Muslim.....

By non Muslim, he meant reverts? if so, then he said nothing wrong. A lot of reverts are way better muslimah than born muslimahs. Or it could be simply a false threat to make your family serious about finding a spouse which indicates they are not considering his marriage as a serious issue.

Edited by Stitcher

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8 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

A 30 year old man living in west, peak on his desires & unmarried!!
Its not an easy task for him to remain that much religious as you expect. Good men at his age become sinful because they fail to close the doors for shatan, which only marriage can do. Hence it is said that marriage protects half the religion & shatan gets very much dissappointed when a young man gets married. For each day of delaying in marriage, God forbid he may sink into more sins.
So, do not dig up too much, don't be too much emotional, be understanding, give him marriage as early as possible. As he grew up in a religious family, Inshallah he will be even better than previous once his psychological & physical desires are met in a lawful way.

By non Muslim, he meant reverts? if so, then he said nothing wrong. A lot of reverts are way better muslimah than born muslimahs. Or it could be simply a false threat to make your family serious about finding a spouse which indicates they are not considering his marriage as a serious issue.

He hadn't finished his education and didn't have a job, no one would have married him until now, especially not one that met his many requiements. And no he did not mean reverts. We never took that he would rather marry a nonmuslim seriously, and we said we would find him someone before it came to that. But finding one that meets his criteria and my brother also meets the girl's criteria has yet to happen. 

Edited by Lilly14

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38 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

give him marriage as early as possible

What a great idea, make an innocent person deal with someone who may clearly be addicted to watching haram content. 

Like I said earlier, and will keep repeating over and over; the solution isnt to quench his desire. The solution is to control it. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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@2Timeless These type of thoughts are too naive and impractical. If a person starving for years can you tell him to fast more to get rid of hunger? This is simply illogical & rude. People when faced with too much difficulties have a greater chance of fall into sins than normal persons. And thats when shatan gets the chance to derail a previously religious man. Why do you think marriage is that much inportant in Islam? How does marriage protect half of deen and stop people from falling into sin? Whats the wisdom behind encouraging early marriage in Islam? Ask yourself.
He grew up in a religious family.
He didn't started to fall in sins overnight. And you may never know his struggles. The more you delay in marriage the more he will fall into sins. While controling thyselve is necessary but fulfiling thy desires in lawful way is more necessary. You block the legal way, people will find illegal way. Thats human nature!!!

Edited by Stitcher

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53 minutes ago, Lilly14 said:

But finding one that meets his criteria and my brother also meets the girl's criteria has yet to happen. 

What his criterias should be other than religion? Its not easy to find a religious woman and when someone add conditions with that, it just becomes too hard. But nothing is impossible If God wishes. Despite he is still a student, you may still find a lot of girls willing to marry him. Rely on God & try your best to find a religious woman.

Here is some articles regarding "criteria of spouse selection" that you can make him read.

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-marriage-handbook-syed-athar-husayn-sh-Rizvi/selection-spouse

https://www.al-Islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-Ali-Akbar-mazaheri/chapter-five-criteria-spouse-selection

http://en.al-Shia.org/content/criteria-spouse-selection-1

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@Stitcher marriage would be a solution to someone who simply has a desire for a relationship. Marriage will not stop an addiction though. It is scientifically proven that if you're addicted to porn marriage or any relationship wont stop it. The thrill from watching that content and the unrealistic expectations created will not be satisfied by any human relationship. Many men come on ShiaChat going on about how theyve cheated on their wife etc etc. Why do you think that is? Because they have an underlying issue. Many of those men had such addictions and instead of facing them, they brushed them under the carpet and got married. Lo and behold, marriage didnt solve any issues permanently. Allah doesnt place a burden that we can’t bare. Allah wouldn't have made it a sin to do such things if He knew men couldn't control themselves. He knows men can control themselves, but some do not want to go through the hardship of doing so. 

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As I said self control is necessary but not without marriage. As marriage helps in self control greatly. If you wish to refrain from fulfulling any physical needs, I.e. foods, sex, sleep whatever it is, this is not possible at all. Never.
You are not wrong though, many men remain addicted to porn or illegal affairs even after marriage. Thats because they never tried to control themselves.
If a man has even a little bit of goodness in him, trust me marriage will make his path a lot easier. I am not talking about irreligious people who never made any efforts. I am talking about those who makes efforts but fails.

33 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Allah doesnt place a burden that we can’t bare.

Exactly, this is the reason why our Prophet s.a. & Imams (عليه السلام). emphasized greatly on marriage. Because they knew not all man can bear the hardships. Not all man can be saint. Otherwise Allah would have commanded everyone to refrain from marriage.

Marriage without self control is fruitless. And self control without marriage is extremely hard & impossible for most of the men.

Edited by Stitcher

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1 hour ago, Stitcher said:

What his criterias should be other than religion? Its not easy to find a religious woman and when someone add conditions with that, it just becomes too hard. But nothing is impossible If God wishes. Despite he is still a student, you may still find a lot of girls willing to marry him. Rely on God & try your best to find a religious woman.

Here is some articles regarding "criteria of spouse selection" that you can make him read.

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-marriage-handbook-syed-athar-husayn-sh-Rizvi/selection-spouse

https://www.al-Islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-Ali-Akbar-mazaheri/chapter-five-criteria-spouse-selection

http://en.al-Shia.org/content/criteria-spouse-selection-1

He is picky about her level of education, citizenship, ethnicity, skin color, slimness, and height too. So no girl that matched all those things would have agreed. Even now that he has a good job, the family of the few girls who actually match his criteria turned my mom down, but we've kept all but one rejection a secret.  

Thank you for the resources! I hope he will be willing to read them.

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@2Timeless Say a person living in the west,due to non availability of halal food ,gets hooked on the fast food easily available in the area (I believe more fast food chain in US sell haram meat,right) So what would be the correct way to get him off fast food, offer halal alternatives. But if you ask him to first go off without eating anything at all for a period of time do you think it's going to happen? 

@Lilly14

His long list of demands about the girl is completely unreasonable. Tell him you will try and find a suitable one for him which may or may not fulfill the criteria. Be upfront and tell him he doesn't have much choice given his level of religiosity and finances/work situation. While you are at it also ask him if there is someone in the community he likes. 

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Guest IranianAmerican

It sounds like he isn't very religious (the missing prayer and quickly reciting it kind of  sounds as if  he keeps it up for your mother). I don't think you can persuade him religiously to stop watching pornography.

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10 hours ago, starlight said:

@2Timeless Say a person living in the west,due to non availability of halal food ,gets hooked on the fast food easily available in the area (I believe more fast food chain in US sell haram meat,right) So what would be the correct way to get him off fast food, offer halal alternatives. But if you ask him to first go off without eating anything at all for a period of time do you think it's going to happen? 

@Lilly14

His long list of demands about the girl is completely unreasonable. Tell him you will try and find a suitable one for him which may or may not fulfill the criteria. Be upfront and tell him he doesn't have much choice given his level of religiosity and finances/work situation. While you are at it also ask him if there is someone in the community he likes. 

Exactly, we told him (after the few rejections that we kept secret) that maybe he would have to give up one or two physical requirements if we found someone that otherwise matched. We told him he's not perfect, and no girl is perfect either. He also said there was no one he had seen in our community that matched physical appearance wise lol. The one he hadn't seen before that matched turned us down. If he's so picky, we can't blame others for being picky against him too.  

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You can’t change your brother. You can’t fix him, nor his issues. Not only can you not fix him—it’s not your job to. 

He’s a 30 year old man. By now, he knows the difference between right and wrong and can make his own decisions. Wether those decisions are halal or haram, they are not up for you to meddle and be all up in his business. You are not his mother. He is not a little boy to be sheltered from the big bad world. He’s an adult. So treat and respect him like one. His sins, his victories, the good and bad, are for him to navigate. Trying to meddle and annoy him and being domineering as a family will cause him to resent you all. None of your advice will help your relationship with him—it will only be strained further. 

Do not find him a wife. He wants to find one for himself. Do not snoop on his computer. What he decides to do on the Internet is up to him. Stop the over-bearing behavior. Seriously, it’s so gross that you’re obsessed over his search history. That’s not your place. I think you all need to respect the concept of boundaries, which you all clearly lack. 

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19 hours ago, starlight said:

Say a person living in the west,due to non availability of halal food ,gets hooked on the fast food easily available in the area (I believe more fast food chain in US sell haram meat,right) So what would be the correct way to get him off fast food,

Not necessarily true, in my case, nothing has a halal sticker except the Saffron  Road "Tv dinners" and I can't eat that all the time, so I assume anything in house is halal unless obviously haram (pork, clams, oysters, eel, lobster, etc.)

It's especially awkward when the family decides on seafood...

My mother is making at least four separate meals for the dinner. It's a very stressful event in the house.

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20 hours ago, starlight said:

Say a person living in the west,due to non availability of halal food ,gets hooked on the fast food easily available in the area (I believe more fast food chain in US sell haram meat,right) So what would be the correct way to get him off fast food, offer halal alternatives. But if you ask him to first go off without eating anything at all for a period of time do you think it's going to happen? 

This is a poor comparison. Food all tastes the same. A halal burger would taste the same as a haram one, but for all the flavouring etc. Lamb and beef and chicken all tastes the same, the only thing that makes it halal or haram is the method of slaughter.

Viewing haram videos of relationships and interactions is not at all a remotely accurate representation of a married couple's relationship. It is a known fact that those R-rated videos set people up for failure by creating unrealistic expectations that will never be satisfied in a real life relationship. 

Getting someone addicted to haram food transferring to halal food is very easy; replace the haram food with halal alternatives. Getting someone to stop watching haram videos and engaging in similar haram behaviour is hard and the issue wont be solved by planting them in a relationship with someone they'd just met. Their unreasonable expectations of a relationship will not be met and the relationship will inevitably fail.

Edited by 2Timeless

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I don't think it's as black and white. Certainly marriage can help, and has helped people that have fallen into haram. And as the ulama have stated, it becomes wajib in such situations. Perhaps the best solution is both therapy/medical assistance and marriage.

Edited by Sumerian

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3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

replace the haram food with halal alternatives.

Replace haram sex with halal alternative. 

3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Food all tastes the same

 Hahaha, okay if you say so but this is the first time I am hearing someone say this. 

3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

wont be solved by planting them in a relationship with someone they'd just met.

Where did I suguest they do this.

 

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

Hahaha, okay if you say so but this is the first time I am hearing someone say this. 

Why are you even laughing at her? You know she means that meat tastes more or less the same regardless of whether it was slaughtered in accordance to Islamic Law or not. 

Edited by Sumerian

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30 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Believe it or not sister, it alllll tastes the same. Maybe you should get your taste buds checked? 

Hahaha, Do you really think all food taste the same? Home bred and farm bred chicken taste different, sea fish and fresh water fish taste different, dates in egypt differ from dates grown in Pakistan. Chicken cooked by a professional chef tastes different from chicken cooked by a home cook, no necessarily better but different. KFC chicken burger tastes different than McDonald's chicken burger. Two people following cooking the same dish will can end up with different tasting food.

Maybe you didn't read my post properly. I gave a comparison between junk(fast)food and healthy food. The former is unhealthy and can lead to a addiction, the latter does not. Maybe you are unaware but junk food addiction is a very real thing. 

Quote

The fact is junk foods stimulate the reward system in the brain in the same way as abusive drugs like cocaine.

For susceptible people, eating junk foods can lead to full-blown addiction

The problem with modern junk foods is that they can cause a reward that is way more powerful than anything you can get from whole foods 

 

Quote

Some scientists believe that fast food such as hamburgers and fries could be as addictive as heroin. In studies of rats who were fed diets containing a similar amount of sweet, salty, and fatty foods as found in fast foods, the withdrawal of the food caused symptoms of anxiety. What is more, scientists noted changes in the rats’ brain chemistry similar to those caused by extended use of morphine or heroin.

https://www.crchealth.com/troubled-teenagers/fast-food-addiction/

Food,clothing,sex are basic human needs and asking someone who has formed an unhealthy food habit to stop eating altogether before he can eat healthy food would be impractical and unreasonable. Similarly someone who has failed into a haram sex habit because of unavailability of halal should at least be offered an halal option. 

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There is a considerable amount of difference in taste between the meat of a halal slaughtered animal & that is killed by other means due to retained blood in their muscles.

And have no doubts that their effects on us will always be different whether physically, psychologically or spiritually. And it is applicable for not only food but also for every type of physical needs. Halal way & haram way of meeting physical needs have different effects on human, hence God ordered us to follow His way. All for our own good. Otherwise He would not have any interest in making those rules.

Edited by Stitcher

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Some may argue that marriage can not refrain anyone from porn, with which I agree partially. Marriage can not refrain a sick perverted person from watching porn, but it does to normal persons who have a healthy psyche. Ask yourselves, if marriage does not prevent anything, then why our Prophet s.a. said that marriage protects half the deen? Was He s.a. a liar? (naujubillah)

And questiones to my married brothers & sisters, tell me if you have seen any change in yourselves after marriage. Didn't marriage change your life in a positive way? Didn't marriage stopped you from fantasizing about opposite genders? Didn't marriage stop you from masturbation? Didn't marriage help you to lower your haram gazes? Didn't you struggle hard with your religion before marriage and marriage made your path easier? Don't you feel comfortable & relaxed when you come home & see your spouse? Were not you depressed & felt lonely before marriage? Don't tell me that you all were angels before marriage.  Still some of you will disagree with the fact that marriage itself entirely reforms a person who sincerely seeks closiness to Allah.

Do you know the reasons behind porn addiction? If you have studied about it, then you already know that "depression, loneliness & sexual deprivation" are the main culprits that lead people to get addicted to porns. There are other reasons as well. Doesn't marriage remove those culprits from anyones life? There is some causative factors for any problem. And you can never solve the problem without removing those factors. Marriage is what removes them.

Well, not everyone can get rid of porn or get any spiritual improvements after marriage. For those type of people, problem lies within themselves, as they never tried anything to get out of that perverted life. So, marriage can & will never be beneficial for them. Efforts for self remodeling is a must along with marriage.

Now, before demonizing OP's brother just because of some search histories, ask yourselves how much angel you were in your youths? Does he really deserve these hateful remarks? If you can't come up with a good solution then at least don't be rude.

And I also request OP not to protrait such a picture of your brother in a public place so that everyone can point their finger towards him like he is the worst guy in this world. Its too easy to point a finger than giving a solution. Don't show exaggregated emotions and don't make a drama over a few faults of his. What your brother does in secret remains within him & Allah. Unless he openly comes up with an illegal relationship & zina or unless he causes any damage to family, please stop spying & complaining too much. I am not prohibiting you to keep an eye on him, but just don't do anything excessively. He may be a good person inside, maybe he just got distracted a little bit, but God willing he can be more pious than anyone of us.

So, my suggestion for you & your mother- be compassionate to him, be understanding, support him, show your love and look for a woman for him with serious intention. At the same time convince him to practice self control & lower his expectations regarding spouse selection.

May Allah solve your problems soon.

Edited by Stitcher

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4 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

Some may argue that marriage can not refrain anyone from porn, with which I agree partially. Marriage can not refrain a sick perverted person from watching porn, but it does to normal persons who have a healthy psyche. Ask yourselves, if marriage does not prevent anything, then why our Prophet s.a. said that marriage protects half the deen? Was He s.a. a liar? (naujubillah)

And questiones to my married brothers & sisters, tell me if you have seen any change in yourselves after marriage. Didn't marriage change your life in a positive way? Didn't marriage stopped you from fantasizing about opposite genders? Didn't marriage stop you from masturbation? Didn't marriage help you to lower your haram gazes? Didn't you struggle hard with your religion before marriage and marriage made your path easier? Don't you feel comfortable & relaxed when you come home & see your spouse? Were not you depressed & felt lonely before marriage? Don't tell me that you all were angels before marriage.  Still some of you will disagree with the fact that marriage itself entirely reforms a person who sincerely seeks closiness to Allah.

Do you know the reasons behind porn addiction? If you have studied about it, then you already know that "depression, loneliness & sexual deprivation" are the main culprits that lead people to get addicted to porns. There are other reasons as well. Doesn't marriage remove those culprits from anyones life? There is some causative factors for any problem. And you can never solve the problem without removing those factors. Marriage is what removes them.

Well, not everyone can get rid of porn or get any spiritual improvements after marriage. For those type of people, problem lies within themselves, as they never tried anything to get out of that perverted life. So, marriage can & will never be beneficial for them. Efforts for self remodeling is a must along with marriage.

Now, before demonizing OP's brother just because of some search histories, ask yourselves how much angel you were in your youths? Does he really deserve these hateful remarks? If you can't come up with a good solution then at least don't be rude.

And I also request OP not to protrait such a picture of your brother in a public place so that everyone can point their finger towards him like he is the worst guy in this world. Its too easy to point a finger than giving a solution. Don't show exaggregated emotions and don't make a drama over a few faults of his. What your brother does in secret remains within him & Allah. Unless he openly comes up with an illegal relationship & zina or unless he causes any damage to family, please stop spying & complaining too much. I am not prohibiting you to keep an eye on him, but just don't do anything excessively. He may be a good person inside, maybe he just got distracted a little bit, but God willing he can be more pious than anyone of us.

So, my suggestion for you & your mother- be compassionate to him, be understanding, support him, show your love and look for a woman for him with serious intention. At the same time convince him to practice self control & lower his expectations regarding spouse selection.

May Allah solve your problems soon.

The point is that you shouldn't be looking to get married to resolve serious personal issues you are struggling with.  That is not fair to your potential spouse.  If anything, those issues can end up ruining a marriage if not dealt with beforehand.  In all practical terms, marriage is hardly about sex, its 95% about a whole lot of other things that most teenagers can't begin to comprehend.  Too often, marriage is quickly thrown as a solution here, it is not like purchasing a car, it is a lifelong commitment.  Early marriage can be good but there is a reason early (especially teen) marriages have much higher divorce rates.  Most young people view the world, themselves and what they desire in a partner completely differently at 18 as opposed to 25.  

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6 minutes ago, King said:

that most teenagers can't begin to comprehend.

OP's brother is 30, not a teenage guy and was previously religious.

9 minutes ago, King said:

 early (especially teen) marriages have much higher divorce rates

Divorce is not related with early marriage, but with what lifestyle people choosing these days. e.g. they aren't satisfied with a single partner & change their partner every now & then. Look back to your parents generation or grandparents, they had earlier marriage than this generation and trust me "young love lasts long."

15 minutes ago, King said:

That is not fair to your potential spouse.  If anything, those issues can end up ruining a marriage if not dealt with beforehand

please read again-

35 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

Efforts for self remodeling is a must along with marriage.

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13 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

OP's brother is 30, not a teenage guy and was previously religious.

Divorce is not related with early marriage, but with what lifestyle people choosing these days. e.g. they aren't satisfied with a single partner & change their partner every now & then. Look back to your parents generation or grandparents, they had earlier marriage than this generation and trust me "young love lasts long."

please read again-

My bad then, at 30 he should definitely consider marriage. 

Who says divorce rate isn't related to early marriage and immaturity? The reason our grandparents stuck around a lot of terrible marriages was because divorce was taboo and they didn't have a choice to get out.  Women couldn't leave a marriage no matter how abusive it was.  Most of the older couples in my grandparents generation hardly talked to each other, it is a different world now.  If young love lasts longer then why are couples who are slightly older a lot less likely to divorce?

Edited by King

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58 minutes ago, King said:

Women couldn't leave a marriage no matter how abusive it was. 

Not every marriage was abusive. Also, woman couldn't get out of a marriage, but men could definitely give divorce and remarry, isn't that right?
But see, men didn't give divorce. Maybe a lot of them were controlling but also they loved their wife from the deep of their heart. Ever asked a older widower, how much they miss their wife? You'll be amazed!
Marriage is all about compromise, sacrifice and taking responsibility. And this is what newer generation lacks, don't you agree brother?
Reasons behind divorces isn't that simple. Maybe we can discuss about that on somewhere else or another thread. Or maybe we can hop on a time-machine and bring back some happiness from past. :cryhappy:

Edited by Stitcher

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18 minutes ago, Stitcher said:

Marriage is all about compromise, sacrifice and taking responsibility. And this is what newer generation lacks, don't you agree brother?

Completely agree, which is why approaching marriage almost solely as means to deal with one's sexual urges is problematic. 

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55 minutes ago, King said:

The reason our grandparents stuck around a lot of terrible marriages was because divorce was taboo

I agree, divorces weren't as common but polygamy was more common than it is now but what was even more common were separations lasting decades which I think is really sad. At least this is what I saw around me.

57 minutes ago, King said:

Most of the older couples in my grandparents generation hardly talked to each other, it is a different world now.

There were other reasons than not being in love or incompatible. It was a different generation, love was expressed differently. Women didn't go crazy if her husband didn't profess his love for him in front of the whole world on social media. Public displays of affection even in front of children were frowned upon. Women weren't as needy and many managed to survive if their husbands worked in another country and the only means of communication was snail mail as compared to today's world where no response despite two blue ticks can make insecure peoplw go into overthinking mode, he/she is ignoring me, doesn't love me. Love was there but it was expressed in more silent and subtle ways,which in todays's world might mistaken for absence an emotional connection.  

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

I agree, divorces weren't as common but polygamy was more common than it is now but what was even more common were separations lasting decades which I think is really sad. At least this is what I saw around me.

There were other reasons than not being in love or incompatible. It was a different generation, love was expressed differently. Women didn't go crazy if her husband didn't profess his love for him in front of the whole world on social media. Public displays of affection even in front of children were frowned upon. Women weren't as needy and many managed to survive if their husbands worked in another country and the only means of communication was snail mail as compared to today's world where no response despite two blue ticks can make insecure peoplw go into overthinking mode, he/she is ignoring me, doesn't love me. Love was there but it was expressed in more silent and subtle ways,which in todays's world might mistaken for absence an emotional connection.  

My parents are like that, they have affection for each other but do not display it public.  It is different from what was quite common in my grandparents generation, where a lot of times the husband and wife had little to do with each other.  The mothers job was to raise the children and she even communicated with the father through her children. Take a look at what type of relationships some gulf countries with polygamous marriages, there is very little emotional connection, everyones responsibilities are understood.   It was the same when it came to relationships between father and sons.  I have talked to plenty of men who have told me that although common for its time, they would have preferred to have more of an emotional connection with their fathers.  There should be a balance of everything.  It is very difficult to foster love on a meaningful level without actually getting to know the other person in a deeper sense, and that happens through communication.  Not saying most marriages were without love, but it was more of a business arrangement, at least from most couples I have observed.  Where love definitely thrived was between mother and children.

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