Abu Musa al-Ashari

[Faruk]

Salam,

What's the Twelver view on Abu Musa al-Ashari?

[Mortadakerim]

Al-Islam.org:

When Amir al-mu'minin had the idea of suppressing the revolt of the people of Basrah he sent this letter through Imam al-Hasan to Abu Musa (`Abdullah ibn Qays) al-Ash`ari, who had been appointed Governor of Kufah by `Uthman, wherein he has scolded him for his duplicitous and contradictory behaviour and attempted to persuade him to jihad, because on one side he used to say that Amir al-mu'minin was the true Imam and allegiance to him was right and on the other he said that to support him in fighting against the Muslims was not right; but it was a mischief and it was necessary to keep off this mischief. Thus, Amir al-mu'minin has referred to this contradictory view by the words "huwa laka wa `alayka" (which go in your favour as well as against you).

 

What I understand from this is that we have a rather neutral stance on him, but he is a respected person, because he loved Imam Ali (ع) and Allah knows best.

 

[Faruk]

49 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

What I understand from this is that we have a rather neutral stance on him, but he is a respected person, because he loved Imam Ali (ع) and Allah knows best.

Hmm ...

Edited August 2, 2019 by Faruk

[Flying_Eagle]

2 hours ago, Faruk said:

Salam,

What's the Twelver view on Abu Musa al-Ashari?

Historically speaking, Abu Musa al-Ashari had a suspicious character. Though some people say that he was only a scholar and not a shrewd politician, yet they just have fallen to the words of Amr-ibn-Aas who said to him when he was called as dog by Abu Musa Ashari: "You are like a donkey upon whom books are laid". However, in my view, he was very clever person and disobedient to Caliph of his time, Imam Ali (عليه السلام). When Imam Ali (عليه السلام) became Caliph, He (عليه السلام) sent a letter to him to immediately relinquish the charge and come back to Medina. However, delegation of Kufa came to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and said to him: "We do not want anyone else except Abu Musa Ashari". And, instead of relinquishing the charge, he waited with what answer delegation comes as it was the order of the Imam but instead of doing that he remained in Kufa as silent. And, stopped people from aiding Imam Ali (عليه السلام) from helping him uprooting Syrian rebellion to such an extent that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had to come to Kufa and relinquish him and designate it as Capital.

On the issue when there were hukm appointed to solve the issue of Caliphate between Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Muwawiya. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) wanted Malik-e-Ashtar or Abdullah Ibn Abbas as his wakil. But again people of Kufa resisted against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and asked him to appoint Abu Musa Ashari as his wakil. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never wanted this but since people were so blasphemous that they even said to wage war against Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Imam Ali (عليه السلام) thought that instead of fighting at two fronts, lets tell the world that the request for which Muwawiya raised Qur'an on spears was not for peace but for buying time to flee from the nearing death. So, Abu Musa Ashari who was so shrewd to keep kufa for such time, fell to the plan of Ibn Aas and went to the people first on the request of ibn Aas and said: "We have declared that Ali and Muwawiya Must relinquish the claim to Caliphate and people select their caliph by themselves". When Ibn Aas came he said: "I agree with Abu Musa that Ali must relinquish his claim but Muwawiya should be Caliph". After this both abused each other just to tell world that they were not each other's allies. However, it was the work of Abu Musa that people in Kufa became so opposed to their own elected Caliph that they did not want to listen to him and their faith in Abu Musa Ashari shows that how deep he had worked with them and bought time for Muwawiya to regain his strength again. 

This is my research on Abu Musa Ashari as a Twelver and for on behalf of Twelvers, I say that  he was suspicious and our Ulema do not regard him as supporter of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

Edited August 2, 2019 by Flying_Eagle

[Simon the Canaanite]

 

 

 

1

4 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

What I understand from this is that we have a rather neutral stance on him, but he is a respected person, because he loved Imam Ali (ع) and Allah knows best.

No. He’s among the accursed figures, and Imam Ali cursed and insulted him.

In Biḥār ʿal-Ānwār, volume 32, page 335.

That ʿal-Shuʾābi (Sunni scholar) narrated from Imam Ali that he said:

“The leaders of kufr in Islam are five: Ṭālḥa, ʿal-Zubāyr, Muawiya, ʿAmr bin ʿal-A’ās, and Aʾbu Mūsā ʿal-Ashʾāri.”

[Mortadakerim]

57 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

No. He’s among the accursed figures, and Imam Ali cursed and insulted him.

In Biḥār ʿal-Ānwār, volume 32, page 335.

That ʿal-Shuʾābi (Sunni scholar) narrated from Imam Ali that he said:

“The leaders of kufr in Islam are five: Ṭālḥa, ʿal-Zubāyr, Muawiya, ʿAmr bin ʿal-A’ās, and Aʾbu Mūsā ʿal-Ashʾāri.”

Thanks for the hadith akhi

[Simon the Canaanite]

43 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

Thanks for the hadith akhi

No problem.

[The Green Knight]

11 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

No. He’s among the accursed figures, and Imam Ali cursed and insulted him.

In Biḥār ʿal-Ānwār, volume 32, page 335.

That ʿal-Shuʾābi (Sunni scholar) narrated from Imam Ali that he said:

“The leaders of kufr in Islam are five: Ṭālḥa, ʿal-Zubāyr, Muawiya, ʿAmr bin ʿal-A’ās, and Aʾbu Mūsā ʿal-Ashʾāri.”

What about the big three? And their supporters like Abd ur Rehman ibn Awf and Khalid ibn Waleed? There were (If I recall correctly) a group of 14 even before Saqeefa who had taken their vows secretly near Kaaba and there are hadiths of Huzaifa bin Yamaan (رضي الله عنه) who knew them because the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) showed him and informed him. (The hadith of the she-camel and the dangerous slope and their plan to martyr the Prophet). I am only contemplating the hadith you quoted. Muawiya would not have been empowered if he also had been changed like all other regions' governors were changed but even Umar did not change and dethrone him from rulership over Syria. In fact Umar and Muawiya had their secret plan according to another source. Ibn 'Us was an extremely clever opportunist who wanted governership for helping muawiya. Zubair and Talha were worldly people though Zubair sometimes was not acting bad, and its why it was said about him that on one day Zubayr is a momin and on another he is a ____ . But Talha and Zubair and even Ayesha could not have been able to gather support if it wasn't for the Sheikhain and their Saqeefa and the fake oath of 40 men who helped them doctor the fake hadith that "nubuwwah and Khilafah can not remain together in bani hashim", paving the way for the first. These two people engineered the loose foundation for the disaster of Kerbala later and everything wrong with Islam today.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Darth Vader

[Panzerwaffe]

Abu musa ashari was Al-Ashtar nakhai's choice for co-governer of kufa [along with Hudhayfa al yaman] 

this is during end of Uthman time and beginning of Alis caliphate 

 

[The Green Knight]

8 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Abu musa ashari was Al-Ashtar nakhai's choice for co-governer of kufa [along with Hudhayfa al yaman] 

this is during end of Uthman time and beginning of Alis caliphate 

 

Its because he was the only practical option to get rid of Waleed ibn Uqba and the other Umayyad replacement Uthman sent.

[Panzerwaffe]

1 hour ago, The Green Knight said:

Its because he was the only practical option to get rid of Waleed ibn Uqba and the other Umayyad replacement Uthman sent.

possible but why him ? and why not just hudhayfa ?

after him Ali appointed the ansar Qarazah b Ka"b and nobody had an issue with him

there were dozens of companions even before Ali came to kufa [I.e before ansar migration]

Edited December 17, 2019 by Panzerwaffe

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

possible but why him ? and why not just hudhayfa ?

after him Ali appointed the ansar Qarazah b Ka"b and nobody had an issue with him

there were dozens of companions even before Ali came to kufa [I.e before ansar migration]

Salam because Abu Musa was more popular between Yemenis of Kufa than other ones.

[The Green Knight]

12 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

possible but why him ? and why not just hudhayfa ?

after him Ali appointed the ansar Qarazah b Ka"b and nobody had an issue with him

there were dozens of companions even before Ali came to kufa [I.e before ansar migration]

Because any companions were revered and enjoyed a distinguished status and Abu Musa was settled there, lead prayers and had followers from powerful tribes. Hudhayfah (رضي الله عنه) was not a worldly man and was not as wealthy even if a true companion and servant of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) so he probably did not have a scope in politics and power over the masses. The Iraqis were picky choosey tedious sort of people and spear headed the coup against Uthman and this nature of theirs was exploited by certain elements when Ali (عليه السلام) sent Uthman bin Hunayf (رضي الله عنه) (If I recall correctly) as governor of Kufa but the people rejected him and adhered to Abu Musa. This nature of the people their susceptibility to sedition and exploit may have been one of the reasons Ali (عليه السلام) shifted caliphate to Kufa.

[Panzerwaffe]

On 12/17/2019 at 3:17 PM, The Green Knight said:

Because any companions were revered and enjoyed a distinguished status and Abu Musa was settled there, lead prayers and had followers from powerful tribes. Hudhayfah (رضي الله عنه) was not a worldly man and was not as wealthy even if a true companion and servant of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) so he probably did not have a scope in politics and power over the masses. The Iraqis were picky choosey tedious sort of people and spear headed the coup against Uthman and this nature of theirs was exploited by certain elements when Ali (عليه السلام) sent Uthman bin Hunayf (رضي الله عنه) (If I recall correctly) as governor of Kufa but the people rejected him and adhered to Abu Musa. This nature of the people their susceptibility to sedition and exploit may have been one of the reasons Ali (عليه السلام) shifted caliphate to Kufa.

Uthman b huneyf was sent as governer of basra and was accepted without question until mommy dearest [ Aisha] arrived with an army to dethrone him

so Ali shifted his capital to kufa so he can be surrounded by people who were suspect to sedition ??

 

hudhayfa led armies in times of Umar and was a well known personality in Iraq , his clout was just as much as Abu musa ashari

Edited January 19, 2020 by Panzerwaffe

[Panzerwaffe]

On 12/17/2019 at 5:25 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam because Abu Musa was more popular between Yemenis of Kufa than other ones.

and who was Ashtar al nakhai ? was he not from a yemeni tribe settled in Iraq ?

[The Green Knight]

5 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Uthman b huneyf was sent as governer of basra and was accepted without question until mommy dearest [ Aisha] arrived with an army to dethrone him

My bad, the guy he sent to Kufa as governor was a very poor but honest man who worked as a farmer before but was a loyal and faithful companion. His name, I think If I recall correctly, was Umar ibn [idr]. This man was denied entry and sent back by Abu Musa.

5 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

so Ali shifted his capital to kufa so he can be surrounded by people who were suspect to sedition ??

What do you think was the reason? Hijaz already had plenty of traitors and munafiqs, and the real / old school believers had left already.

5 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

hudhayfa led armies in times of Umar and was a well known personality in Iraq , his clout was just as much as Abu musa ashari

Hudhayfa was different because he knew the names of the 14 munafiqs who had sworn behind Kaaba to assassinate the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and while he was traveling with the Prophet he saw those people hiding ahead of them at a sharp and dangerous bend along a hillside track to scare the Prophet's camel in hopes of having it fall down the slope. He was asked about that event much later during Umar's time and even though Umar asked him who those 14 were he refused to give away their names. So most certainly he would have no place in the inner circle / top echelon.

Edited January 19, 2020 by The Green Knight

[Panzerwaffe]

I'll address other issues later tonight 

But choice was kufa was driven more by military political and economic reasons 

Firstly Ali took 700 of the Ansar sahaba from medina to kufa with him before battle of camel.So the cream of medina society left with Ali to atleast temporarily settle in kufa.

Secondly if Aisha had not attacked basra there was no need to leave medina 

Thirdly medina was very dependent on grain of Egypt and remote in strategic  sense esp with trouble brewing in various provinces.Kufa was centrally located.

Fourthly Demographics of kufa is important as it is home of veterans of qadissiyah and persian front.They are instrumental in defeating basrans and later even syrians.The hijaz does not have this concentration of trained fighters 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Panzerwaffe

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 1/19/2020 at 9:59 AM, Panzerwaffe said:

and who was Ashtar al nakhai ? was he not from a yemeni tribe settled in Iraq ?

Salam Malik Ashtar Nakhai was a hard &wise man but Abu musa was a soft man that people could delude his mind like as happened in Siffin.

[baqar]

On 8/3/2019 at 1:11 AM, Faruk said:

What's the Twelver view on Abu Musa al-Ashari?

He was not sincere to the Ahlul Bayt.

During the battle of Siffeen, he represented Maula Ali in the negotiations for a compromise.

But he was manipulated  by Amr ibn Aas into agreeing to terms that were detrimental to the interests of Maula Ali (عليه السلام).

And if you study Sunni hadith books, there are hadiths attributed to him that support Companions who were not faithful to the Ahlul Bayt.  

[Panzerwaffe]

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam Malik Ashtar Nakhai was a hard &wise man but Abu musa was a soft man that people could delude his mind like as happened in Siffin.

WS

that is subjective to say the least,

but fact remains yemeni clan was dominant in kufa and there were many political factions within them. I can understand your frustration with Abu musa ashari and I share it but to dismiss him as treacherous is a misreading of history.He was wanted an end to the fighting REGARDLESS of who wins or what the political outcome is, this sort of myopic and flawed thinking led to the arbitration of siffin.

But to select Abu Musa as a replacement governer was a mistake made by Al-Ashtar and he regretted it later, this is not uncommon in times of crisis great men often misread situations.E.g Jarrir was forced to leave Iraq as Al-Ashtar doubted his loyalty, he fled to Syria but apparently he had no grudge against Ali as he did not participate in siffin on the side of muawiyah

Edited January 20, 2020 by Panzerwaffe