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Ruqaya101

Strict and conservative Muslims VS non-conservative and carefree Muslims

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Which of the following would you or other people consider you as:

1. Someone who has strict rules about the way they/ or the people around them follow Islam?

2. Someone who is considered to be more "open minded" and carefree with the way they interpret and follow Islamic rules for example hijab, clothing, relationships, etc?

Or are you just an in-between?

Usually the first 2 don’t get along very well and have arguments and many heated discussions about who's right and who's wrong. 

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on to?

@2Timeless @3wliya_maryam @ali_fatheroforphans @Sumerian @Islandsandmirrors

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As always I try to take the middle ground.

And thus we have made you a wasat (moderate) community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful. — Al-Baqara, 2: 143

 

Also I have come across several ahadith on taking the middle path, not taking either extreme.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

Which of the following would you or other people consider you as:

1. Someone who has strict rules about the way they/ or the people around them follow Islam?

2. Someone who is considered to be more "open minded" and carefree with the way they interpret and follow Islamic rules for example hijab, clothing, relationships, etc?

Or are you just an in-between?

Usually the first 2 don’t get along very well and have arguments and many heated discussions about who's right and who's wrong. 

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on to?

@2Timeless @3wliya_maryam @ali_fatheroforphans @Sumerian @Islandsandmirrors

It's good that you made a thread about this issue

I consider myself to be number 2. I used to be number 1, but as you know that has changed, so I started becoming in between 1 and 2. However, most of the times I consider to be more open minded and care free, and I feel like people around me have that impression that I am more of a reserved type of Muslim girl whose religious, but I find myself to be the complete opposite. I guess that has to do with the way I dress, the way I look and the way I communicate with others as im quite shy and socially awkward at times. I give off that innocent vibe aswell, but people who know me well and are close to me like you for instance, know how I really am lol

On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

Usually the first 2 don’t get along very well and have arguments and many heated discussions about who's right and who's wrong. 

I completely understand this. Back then when I was super religious, I used to think that alot of people around me were wrong. I used to avoid the things that they'd say or do, and there were times where I had some arguments, but I guess it was different because alot of my friends were Sunnis. But I took alot of things seriously, like for example if someone made a dirty joke I would over react which later I realised that it wasn't good.

On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

From experience, I personally believe that there should be a balance when it comes to following religion and growing up in this society, considering the fact that we are brought up in this generation where there are alot of obstacles that intermingle with our faith. Its not good to be too religious and turn into a haram police, neither is it good to be so careless about one's faith with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We can try and be good Muslims as much as we can, but we're not perfect. We're supposed to have our limits and set boundaries wherever we go, because that's what Islam tells us, but at the same time we can't just restrict ourselves all the time and make it seem like Allah is unmerciful or that Islam has laws that are complicated to abide by

On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Yeah they really have. They make Islam seem like its a strict religion when it is supposed to be seen as a religion of encouragement and not forceful. Alot of Muslims out there portray Islam in that way which is also wrong. 

On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on to?

Our parents have been both a positive and negative contributing factor to the way we see Islam. First, they have raised us to have limits no matter where we are. They taught us about Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), The Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), the Qur'an , the a'imah (عليه السلام) and all the fundamentals within our faith. They have brought us up in such a way where we can differentiate whats right and wrong and set  our own boundaries. However, there are some ways in how they teach Islam that can have a mental impact on the children growing up. Some parents like the idea of forcing their child to pray, fast, read Qur'an etc., and I personally believe that it is wrong. I mean maybe they don't realise it, but this is a common thing within conservative families. They like to use the idea of force because they think it'll discipline their kids; but in the long run, it usually does more harm than good. One needs to fall in love with Islam, and it shouldn't be through force. Another issue is parents convincing their children that certain things are haram or forbidden when it actually isn't, and this makes them question their beliefs. They tell them to avoid certain things, and the child would wonder whether it has to do with faith or not, and they probably have no idea the difference between culture or religion and how these two intertwine. I'm not saying that our parents don't know how to raise us, but there are some strategies that they should atleast consider within their upbringing so that their kids don't fall out of line.

I mean I don’t know if everyone here understand what im saying, but every point I have made here is based on my own personal experience

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On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

2. Someone who is considered to be more "open minded" and carefree with the way they interpret and follow Islamic rules for example hijab, clothing, relationships, etc?

Definitely this. Mainly because I believe that Islam is a religion for all. Sadly, many people add culture with religion, and that’s where the fighting begins from either side. While I believe it’s necessary to dress modestly, how modest one is supposed to dress depends on a variety of factors such as their environment in which they live in. Everything must be considered. Islam isn’t black and white although many try to make it seem to be. 

Futhermore, there are plenty of people I know in my life who fall into the first category, who are strict with regards to Islamic teachings, who have behaved in the most unislamic manner like treating others poorly and driving a wedge between husbands and wives. These people don’t understand that Islam is a religion of Akhlaq, and that because of this, Allah might never accept their so-called good deeds because they were lacking in other aspects. 

On 7/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ruqaya101 said:

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on to?

Yes and no to the first question. I believe in thinking critically about issues. Not doing things without question. I don’t like to follow Islam blindly. Some things are absolutely irrefutable, such as prayer, fasting, being a good person to others, etc. but other fiqh related issues are not so clear cut. I think many people cherry-pick Hadiths which suit their narrative and present them as THE ONLY right way. Scholars and marja can’t even come to a consensus on certain issues, so how can one say that there is only one way to follow Islam? I believe, of course, that Shia Islam is correct, but the little fiqh issues that divides us? I prefer to not get involved. 

So to answer your question, yes, people over complicate Islam. 

No, my parents have not been a contributing factor. My mother is highly conservative. I’m not like my mother. 

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3 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Which of the following would you or other people consider you as

#2 by a wide margin.

3 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

All depends on your position. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to that. If we were to answer that question definitively then we would descend to thinking only in absolutes and not acknowledging the gray areas. To think only in absolutes is the hallmark of extremism. Too much of that going in the world right now as it is.

3 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam?

Very much so.

3 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Yes, that's true. What does the Qur'an, and by extension the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام), say about acknowledging those that hold a different opinion on something than yourself? If there is only a right way and a wrong way then why is there a need for analysis and aql on a situation by situation basis? To confine ourselves to thinking in only black and white is a violation of the intellect that Allah endowed us with.

Now, many arguments can be made that too much thinking leads to deviant thought and beliefs. I'm of the mindset that the person that arrives at a conclusion which involves deviant thoughts and conclusions has not completed the analysis through to completion and has only jumped off half way (if even that).

You can't deny the fact that Allah in his infinite wisdom has made things haram for us. However, Islam contains many other aspects which are not haram or halal in plain terms. For example, what is the Quranic statement regarding Hijab? Does it state that it has to be a Niqab? It results in a variation on interpretations, but which is the proper interpretation? 

3 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam?

Of course they have. They are the basis of our most basic programming.

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I would like to see my self as something in between. Number 1. I guess is what people call the "haram police." I would certainly not like to come across as that, nor would I enjoy the company of such people. I think though, that different people has different levels of how strict rules should be enforced and I think I might have come across as Haram police to some. Especially if they have an immoral agenda.
I would like to see my self as open minded, but I like to dress modestly and I am somewhat conservative when it comes to sexual expression and relationships. Hijab is a difficult thing in my country because of a negative view of it in the public. I think that 5 years ago many more people wore it than to day. I think there has also been a "take of the hijab" trend on social media. So even though I like wearing the hijab I don't always have the courage to do so. I don think it is mandatory to wear it, but I think it is the best thing to do.

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I belong to #1 regarding hijab and relationships, not so much strict about other Islamic teachings. I expected my ex husband to be strict in modesty like me, other than that, I never tried to control other people's behaviors or acted as haram police.

I think that people who fall in #2 category have become more extremist since they try to impose their life styles on others. In order to have many relationships, they need as many people as possible. I remember the episode in Black mirror in which a computer program determines who will date who, and I feel like it's becoming  a reality. After every few days, a new man starts hanging around me, it seems like he has no interest in me but he wants to create a relationship friendship like it's a chore and one of his job responsibilities. The problem is my parents were very strict before my marriage, so I have always worried about my reputation. The idea of a man wanting a relationship friendship with me makes me feel ashamed, embarrassed. When I was young, I remember when men stared at me, I did like it. I don't know where that feeling is gone, now it only makes me cringe. Due to my nature, I fail to become part of "the system" and people get upset.

I just want to make it clear that days of haram police are long gone. Today, it's the people who have casual relationships, they are the ones who act like extremists and impose their lifestyle on everyone else, and if someone fails to become part of the "system" , he/ she gets labeled as extremist.  If I could change, I would but I am shy and socially awkward, so modesty has become my nature, there are even shy women among non Muslims, it doesn't make you extremist. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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Between the two. I don't have an issue with people who are number one, providing they know what they are talking about instead of just parrot spouting their rules. I have seen how people are number one but don't use their minds and follow extreme and backward mentality and it has ruined a lot of things for them. I disagree with being care free though, moderation in everything beneficial is best.

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On 7/30/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ruqaya101 said:

Which of the following would you or other people consider you as:

1. Someone who has strict rules about the way they/ or the people around them follow Islam?

2. Someone who is considered to be more "open minded" and carefree with the way they interpret and follow Islamic rules for example hijab, clothing, relationships, etc?

Or are you just an in-between?

Usually the first 2 don’t get along very well and have arguments and many heated discussions about who's right and who's wrong. 

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on to?

@2Timeless @3wliya_maryam @ali_fatheroforphans @Sumerian @Islandsandmirrors

Why no tag me :cry: just kidding :muslima:

My family is very very conservative type 

but I am not that conservative tho

I 100% think people have over complicated Islam and parents play quite a big role 

thats pretty much it 

Allah Hafiz 

Edited by Noor Taleb

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On 7/30/2019 at 6:33 PM, Ruqaya101 said:

Which of the following would you or other people consider you as:

1. Someone who has strict rules about the way they/ or the people around them follow Islam?

2. Someone who is considered to be more "open minded" and carefree with the way they interpret and follow Islamic rules for example hijab, clothing, relationships, etc?

Or are you just an in-between?

Usually the first 2 don’t get along very well and have arguments and many heated discussions about who's right and who's wrong. 

What is the right way to follow Islam, is being the strict "stated evidential Islamic rulings" the only MUST follow?

don’t you think that people have just complicated Islam? That we should abide by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) book and his messenger and his progeny (عليه السلام).?

Have our parents been a contributing factor to the way we see Islam? To what type of beliefs we will lean on

 

We should practice Islam to the letter, if one has faith then it is not a choice. How can there be a choice to disobey and anger the Creator while you know sin is an incredibly poor choice? The Qur'an tells believers to "enter Islam completely". I am posting this for anyone who may be about to fall asleep with this. Don't. Negligence will misguide you and your progeny. Especially in these times it is very easy. If someone's faith is weak they should address it. Do not choose confusion or a middle ground. Find answers. Be clear. One does not have to be rude or haughty rather a practicing person should be considerate to others and lead by example not words.

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2 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

We should practice Islam to the letter, if one has faith then it is not a choice. How can there be a choice to disobey and anger the Creator while you know sin is an incredibly poor choice? The Qur'an tells believers to "enter Islam completely". I am posting this for anyone who may be about to fall asleep with this. Don't. Negligence will misguide you and your progeny. Especially in these times it is very easy. If someone's faith is weak they should address it. Do not choose confusion or a middle ground. Find answers. Be clear. One does not have to be rude or haughty rather a practicing person should be considerate to others and lead by example not words.

I don’t understand... How is this relevant?

 

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On 7/30/2019 at 7:26 PM, rkazmi33 said:

If I could change, I would but I am shy and socially awkward, so modesty has become my nature,

With me it is actually the other way around. The more bad experience I have had with men, the more I have come to value modesty and piety.

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13 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

We should practice Islam to the letter, if one has faith then it is not a choice.

This might be slightly off topic, but I think religion is different things to different people. The text is what believers have in common and is meant to give us an idea about what the direction is. A personal relationship to God is much deeper than the text. God loves all of us and want to save us all. So he guides us towards him through events that happen in our lives and through our personal dialog with him. Some times God does cut corners in order to get us closer to him and by time we will get there fully. He is the most gracious the most merciful.
Some people might not have the personal dialog with God. Some who was born into the religion may only know God from the text and from what other people say. Therefore they think that you can only seek God through the text. Others who are converts from atheism, may still not think that God intervenes in peoples lives (I have seen this with atheist who converted to Salafism) and so their only reference is the text. I am not saying that the text is unimportant. Far from it. It gives the direction that is common to all of us. However a persons path to Allah is that persons individual path that is different from everybody elses. Having faith in God also means having faith that God guides whom he wishes and his guidance is much better than the letter of any text.

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I don't know how easy it is to categorize Muslims into strict and not strict, given that measures of strictness are not static e.g one who performs all the visible wajibaat meticulously, but secretly watches haraam stuff, and interacts with people like a "moderate/open minded" Muslim socially. So if you measure only one of these aspects, you could mistakenly label that Muslim as very strict or nice open minded Muslim or barely Muslim.

What is more important is to have sincere Muslims, striving their best to be the kind of Muslims that Allah wants. 

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40 minutes ago, habib e najjaar said:

What is more important is to have sincere Muslims, striving their best to be the kind of Muslims that Allah wants. 

What does it mean to be a sincere Muslim according to you?

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13 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

What does it mean to be a sincere Muslim according to you?

To strive to perform all the wajibaat, and to avoid all mahroomaat and makroohaat, including akhlaqi ones, and not those related to acts of worship only purely for the sake of Allah.

The levels of "striving" and "performance" are obviously affected by one's background, age, surrounding, culture etc. E.g it may be much easier for a female in Africa or the Middle East or the subcontinent to observe strict physical hijab clothing as opposed to someone living in a western society, but you cannot measure the sincerity of those in one or another region based on the external visible observation of hijab clothing.

Edited by habib e najjaar

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20 hours ago, habib e najjaar said:

To strive to perform all the wajibaat, and to avoid all mahroomaat and makroohaat, including akhlaqi ones, and not those related to acts of worship only purely for the sake of Allah.

What would you say is the best way to achieve the best results with regards to that goal that you have mentioned?

Would you say being "strict", as in consistent and cautious, in your efforts to achieve them will give you the best result or by being "open minded" and "carefree" as in ignorant or negligent of Islamic laws/the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

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2 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

What would you say is the best way to achieve the best results with regards to that goal that you have mentioned?

Would you say being "strict", as in consistent and cautious, in your efforts to achieve them will give you the best result or by being "open minded" and "carefree" as in ignorant or negligent of Islamic laws/the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

Being strict, consistent, cautious, and humble in so doing. The minute observation of the commandments of Allah creates a feeling of haughtiness, is the minute we should realise we are still on the wrong track towards achieving complete ubudiyyah.

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