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Faruk

Why did humanity have to wait 2000 years for the sacrifice of Christ?

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The Jews believe that the Earth is arpund 6000 years old so I guess it's 4000 years.

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1 hour ago, Faruk said:

The Jews believe that the Earth is arpund 6000 years old so I guess it's 4000 years.

Yeah some Christians believe the Earth is 4000 years I think.

However many years the faith claims to have waited, nearly 2,000 years later its adherents are still waiting for some breakthrough. Thousands of years and the world is still messing up.

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This question really turns us back to the question of why the "fall" occurred to begin with. If there was no fall, then Jesus would have no purpose in dying to save mankind.

But really, these stories involving a man and a woman, fooled by a snake, eating an apple and then finding themselves surrounded by sin, is really more of a fable.

Yes of course there are conservative Christians who believe in Adam as a first man, and believe in the chronological lineage of Adam over 6000 years in the book of Genesis. 

But these aren't concepts that are literally true.

So when we ask a question of why humanity waited 2000 years after the fall of Adam, it is really a nonsensical question that would only really hold meaning to biblical literalists.

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Hi everybody, hope all is well. Interesting topic here!

First, I mean no disrespect to Mr.. Cenozoic above me, but please be aware he is not speaking for all Christians. This man would be considered quite liberal by most Christians, Catholic or Protestant. So while I respect his right to hold such opinions, I do mostly disagree with him. 

For example, I and most believers like me believe 100%  in Adam and Eve, the snake, the fruit, and all of it to the T. Because God is really, really interesting and he can order the world just the way he wants. He can intervene in miraculous ways, like allowing people to live 800+ years if he wishes, and building the human race out of two progenitors, and allowing a snake to speak. Many Christians believe this quite comfortably, because we believe in God's miraculous and creative essence. 

As for the OP, the Bible actually explains that. Check out Galatians 4, verses 4-7. Paul explains: "... when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God."

"When the fullness of the time came." God himself is not bound by time, but we exist within it. So there was a certain point in the development of human affairs when the time was right for Jesus to be sent. This is not uncommon in the biblical narrative. There are many passages which refer to timing, such as when God foretells to Abraham that in a few hundred years his descendants would go to war against the Amorites but not yet, because "their sin had not reached its full measure." So he was holding off his judgement until a certain time. 

But that kind of naturally brings up the question, Why wait? Why wait for them to fully express their sinfulness before bringing judgment, and why wait 2000+ after the resurrection for Jesus to return (I think that's what your OP was really talking about, right?)? There's an answer in the text for that too. Two answers, actually. There are two really important passages that you need to see to understand it. 

FIRST - so people have ample time to turn from their sins and follow Jesus, coming to salvation. See 2 Peter 3:3-9, it's very powerful:

Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the Earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and Earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

God is patient so that more people freely turn to him and repent of their sins. 

 

SECOND - so that all cultures finally have the opportunity to hear the Gospel (the good news that Jesus Christ died on the cross, and that his sacrifice provides forgiveness for sins if we repent and put our faith in him). See, not everyone has had the chance to hear this good news yet! There are still entire languages in which the Bible is not available.

Here's what Jesus said:

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false Prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Praise God, the Bible is available in Farsi, Arabic, Dari, Hindi, French, English, etc. There are many languages yet to receive a Bible, but efforts are constantly underway. 

According to Jesus, God is waiting until everybody has a fair chance to hear the good news about him in a language they understand well, and enough time to commit their life to Jesus. And he has no problem waiting as long as it takes, because to him time is not an issue. Praise God, he is working all things out. 

iCenozoic, again, no offense to you. I just want to make sure people know that your position isn't the normative position among Christians. May God bless you and lead you to all truth. 

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One other thought:

A typical Christian position is that God distribvuted human souls throughout time and space in a way that every soul who is inclined to search for truth will have an opportunity to learn it. I don't know that that's correct but it's a common position and it makes sense to me. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 5:54 PM, thegoodman81 said:

One other thought:

A typical Christian position is that God distribvuted human souls throughout time and space in a way that every soul who is inclined to search for truth will have an opportunity to learn it. I don't know that that's correct but it's a common position and it makes sense to me. 

I believe those souls weren't limited to any one religion. 

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

I believe those souls weren't limited to any one religion. 

I somewhat agree with you. Those souls can belong to any religion, yes.
However, I assert that for that person to enter a right relationship with God, they need to follow Jesus Christ. For he says: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So people need to turn to Christ, no matter what their religious or cultural background is. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 7:48 PM, thegoodman81 said:

Hi everybody, hope all is well. Interesting topic here!

First, I mean no disrespect to Mr.... Cenozoic above me, but please be aware he is not speaking for all Christians. This man would be considered quite liberal by most Christians, Catholic or Protestant. So while I respect his right to hold such opinions, I do mostly disagree with him. 

For example, I and most believers like me believe 100%  in Adam and Eve, the snake, the fruit, and all of it to the T. Because God is really, really interesting and he can order the world just the way he wants. He can intervene in miraculous ways, like allowing people to live 800+ years if he wishes, and building the human race out of two progenitors, and allowing a snake to speak. Many Christians believe this quite comfortably, because we believe in God's miraculous and creative essence. 

As for the OP, the Bible actually explains that. Check out Galatians 4, verses 4-7. Paul explains: "... when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God."

"When the fullness of the time came." God himself is not bound by time, but we exist within it. So there was a certain point in the development of human affairs when the time was right for Jesus to be sent. This is not uncommon in the biblical narrative. There are many passages which refer to timing, such as when God foretells to Abraham that in a few hundred years his descendants would go to war against the Amorites but not yet, because "their sin had not reached its full measure." So he was holding off his judgement until a certain time. 

But that kind of naturally brings up the question, Why wait? Why wait for them to fully express their sinfulness before bringing judgment, and why wait 2000+ after the resurrection for Jesus to return (I think that's what your OP was really talking about, right?)? There's an answer in the text for that too. Two answers, actually. There are two really important passages that you need to see to understand it. 

FIRST - so people have ample time to turn from their sins and follow Jesus, coming to salvation. See 2 Peter 3:3-9, it's very powerful:

Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the Earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and Earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

God is patient so that more people freely turn to him and repent of their sins. 

 

SECOND - so that all cultures finally have the opportunity to hear the Gospel (the good news that Jesus Christ died on the cross, and that his sacrifice provides forgiveness for sins if we repent and put our faith in him). See, not everyone has had the chance to hear this good news yet! There are still entire languages in which the Bible is not available.

Here's what Jesus said:

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false Prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Praise God, the Bible is available in Farsi, Arabic, Dari, Hindi, French, English, etc. There are many languages yet to receive a Bible, but efforts are constantly underway. 

According to Jesus, God is waiting until everybody has a fair chance to hear the good news about him in a language they understand well, and enough time to commit their life to Jesus. And he has no problem waiting as long as it takes, because to him time is not an issue. Praise God, he is working all things out. 

iCenozoic, again, no offense to you. I just want to make sure people know that your position isn't the normative position among Christians. May God bless you and lead you to all truth. 

Most Christians are not biblical literalists, if young Earth creationism is what you consider "normative". But it's alright, no offense taken. Thus is the nature of modern day Christianity. There are those that are conservative, those that are liberal and anything in between.

Edited by iCenozoic

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On 8/26/2019 at 9:43 PM, thegoodman81 said:

I somewhat agree with you. Those souls can belong to any religion, yes.
However, I assert that for that person to enter a right relationship with God, they need to follow Jesus Christ. For he says: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So people need to turn to Christ, no matter what their religious or cultural background is. 

That's what I was taught, exactly what they taught me, (Fellowship Baptist), but I learned something else with a Muslin coworker during Ramadan. 

Jesus died for all, including Muslims. Jesus directed people to worship God and gave us lessons, instructions, and guidance. Nobody comes to the Father, but by Jesus, but Jesus didn't specify the can and can’t's of past or future religious doctrines. Jesus knows your heart. He said "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness..." When you pray, pray like this, "Our Father..." Jesus was all about getting you in touch with The Father. Any person can be in touch with God without the confines of a church or mosque. The reason Prophets came was to release people from previous religious confines, (man made God laws). Many Prophets died trying. You can break God's laws but not man made God laws.

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Hello and God Bless, 

This is definitely a great discussion. One of the first questions you need to ask is; Are the scriptures authentic and can they be proven. With the ability to trace and date the New Testament scriptures back with textual criticism to as early as 20-30 years (or earlier) after the death and resurrection of Jesus through the eye witness accounts of those disciples, they can also be connect to the old testament prophesy's given  and documented through Abraham, Moses, Isaiah as well as many other Prophets throughout the Old Testament. So in accepting the New Testament scriptures we also accept the Old Testament in its entirety. Jesus said " blessed are those who believe that do not see". Following Jesus is a journey of trust but more importantly a journey in Faith. Jesus came to this Earth to fulfill the Law by being blameless and defeating every temptation man has, in order to show us the pathway to do it.....trusting in Him and Him Who sent Him. God is patient and wants everyone on this Earth to hear the Good News that Jesus died for our sins, and rose again on the third day therefore achieving power over the living and the dead in the name of our Father. As you read the Old Testament, you will discover that God is Patient, that He is Merciful when we cry out to Him, that He hears the cries of His children and with His mighty Power Will deliver Mathew 7 vs 7-8 ( ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks the door will be opened), God wants to have a personal relationship with everyone on this Earth regardless of where they are. If anyone of any other religion or faith/following authentically searches for the truth, reads and compares any scripture to the Bible, they will receive Revelation and Truth of the God who saves, the God who chose us, the God that is full of Mercy and abundant in Grace, the God who wants us to know Him, the God who began the redemption process from the very moment Adam entered into sin. We can only get to the Father through our Savior Jesus Christ, in accepting Him and What He has done for us........is indeed "the good news". In knowing the Good News.......we will without any shadow of doubt also find peace, the peace that only God Himself can give to us.

Thank you for starting this discussion

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