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In the Name of God بسم الله

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I hope another thread about this doesn't exist, so my apologies if I didn't find one in the search.

I saw some time ago when looking into the Ahlul Bayt that most of the Imams were poisoned. I know that poisoning was probably quite a popular way to get rid of powerful figures back in the day, without physically touching them, but I find it quite shocking that so many were killed that way. 

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way? 

I mean no disrespect to them, it's just something I've wondered for a while.

 

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11 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way? 

I mean no disrespect to them, it's just something I've wondered for a while.

 

I've also wondered this, I'm sure many others have too.

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23 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way?

 

10 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I've also wondered this, I'm sure many others have too.

They know that they’ll die this way, but it’s God’s will - they could’ve stopped it, if they willed - but, without sacrifice, holy men wouldn’t have reached the heights.

But all in all, they know about it. And they know about you and me, our names, secrets and how we’ll die. They have a whole scroll of the names of their followers.

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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4 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

 

They know that they’ll die this way, but it’s God’s will - they could’ve stopped it, if they willed - but, without sacrifice, holy men wouldn’t have reached the heights.

But all in all, they know about it. And they know about you and me, our names, secrets and how we’ll die. They have a whole scroll of the names of their followers.

Salam brother, from where did you get this info?

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44 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

I saw some time ago when looking into the Ahlul Bayt that most of the Imams were poisoned. I know that poisoning was probably quite a popular way to get rid of powerful figures back in the day, without physically touching them, but I find it quite shocking that so many were killed that way. 

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way? 

While the martyrdom of all Shi'a Imams is considered well-accepted today and it was also a popular opinion in the earlier period of the Ghaybah it seems, but you do have the opinion of Shaykh Mufeed who casts doubt on whether Imam Sajjad, Baqir, Sadiq, Taqi, Naqi and 'Askari (a) were killed or not, and rather denies them to be martyred. This is his exact statement:

Chapter: As for what Abu Ja‘far mentions of the death of our Prophet and the Imams by poison or murder, some of this is confirmed as fact and some not. What is confirmed is that the Commander of the Believers, al-Hasan and al-Husayn, peace be upon them, departed from this world by murder, none of them died a natural death. Musa ibn Ja‘far, peace be upon him, was killed by poison.

It is highly probable that ar-Rida (‘Ali ibn Musa) was poisoned, yet this cannot be confirmed. As for the others, there is no justification for the claim that they were either poisoned or murdered or killed through persecution, since the reports concerning this matter are extremely confused, and there are no means of proving it definitely.

Source: https://www.al-Islam.org/emendation-shiite-creed-shaykh-al-mufid/33-chapter-excess-and-delegation-al-ghuluww-wat-tafwid

While I haven't really investigated the reports on the martyrdom of Imam Taqi, Naqi and 'Askari (a), I do personally feel unconvinced that Imam Sajjad, Baqir and Sadiq (a) were killed by poison. Certain things don't seem to add up. The main argument to prove that all of them were killed is a tradition which says: “There is none of us but is killed by sword or poison.”

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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1 hour ago, aaaz1618 said:

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way? 

Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) was poisoned but there is disagreement if it was ordered by Muawiyah or not.

According to amirul nawasib ibn Taymiyyah all accusations against Muawiyah are baseless because of the Adalat al-Sahaba concept which is ofcourse ridiculous.

Edited by Faruk

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3 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way

Salamun Aleikum Brother,

This is also a topic with lots of controversy. I think that if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) willed this to happen, then the Imam accepted their martyrdom. But as you see their are different views and Allah knows best.

ws/wrb

Edited by Mortadakerim

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46 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

Very interesting responses so far, curious to know more if anyone else has anything to add! Thanks.

There are even claims from Sunni scholars about Muawiyah being responsible for killing Aisha (رضي الله عنه).

Aisha died at her home in Medina on 17 Ramadan 58 AH (16 July 678). She was 67 years old. Some such as Sibt ibn al-Jawzi, Hakim Sanai, and Khwaja Mehboob Qasim Chishti Muhsarafee Qadiri say that she was murdered by Muawiyah.

The Salafi narrative is just one of a spectrum.

Edited by Faruk

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17 hours ago, Faruk said:

There are even claims from Sunni scholars about Muawiyah being responsible for killing Aisha (رضي الله عنه).

Aisha died at her home in Medina on 17 Ramadan 58 AH (16 July 678). She was 67 years old. Some such as Sibt ibn al-Jawzi, Hakim Sanai, and Khwaja Mehboob Qasim Chishti Muhsarafee Qadiri say that she was murdered by Muawiyah.

The Salafi narrative is just one of a spectrum.

lol

for someone who cursed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and made it part of his law, chooses to kill the one who went to war against him

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21 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

I hope another thread about this doesn't exist, so my apologies if I didn't find one in the search.

I saw some time ago when looking into the Ahlul Bayt that most of the Imams were poisoned. I know that poisoning was probably quite a popular way to get rid of powerful figures back in the day, without physically touching them, but I find it quite shocking that so many were killed that way. 

I don't understand, did they know this would happen? Did they definitely die from poisoning or is that an assumption? Did they not start to become suspicious after so many of their family before them died that way? 

I mean no disrespect to them, it's just something I've wondered for a while.

 

This is also something that got me thinking. The way it makes sense to me is that it was Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'s will, so they couldn't refrain it. How are they able to change Allah's command when they knew that they would be poisoned? Its like how Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) knew that he had to sacrifice his life in Karbala, so he had to fulfill His command and couldn't refuse. 

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3 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

How old was muawiya if she was 67?

I don't know. Probably in his late seventies.

Edited by Faruk

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4 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

lol

for someone who cursed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and made it part of his law, chooses to kill the one who went to war against him

His hatred was not towards the Ahl al-Kisa in particular but towards everyone closely related to Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Do you really think he would make a distinction between his wives and his family?

Edited by Faruk

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I am still confused about the caliphs(1,2,3) because Imam Ali (a) respected them, but we have narrations that curse them.

whether it is just to curse or not is the question.

but, if Shia are rafidah for cursing them, then what is muawiya for cursing the best of the sahaba? Why is muawiya loved? If you say Shia scholars should know better about muawiya for cursing him, then muawiya did not know the status of Ali (عليه السلام) while living with him and the Prophet (saas)?? 

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1 hour ago, Mortadakerim said:

I am still confused about the caliphs(1,2,3) because Imam Ali (a) respected them, but we have narrations that curse them.

whether it is just to curse or not is the question.

but, if Shia are rafidah for cursing them, then what is muawiya for cursing the best of the sahaba? Why is muawiya loved? If you say Shia scholars should know better about muawiya for cursing him, then muawiya did not know the status of Ali (عليه السلام) while living with him and the Prophet (saas)?? 

If someone cursing Sahaba is a kafir then Muawiyah is a kafir according to their own standards.

This diplomatic immunity thing called Adalatul Sahaba is not Islam as Islam makes no distinction between people when it comes to commiting evil.

Same counts for the prohibition to rebel against evil opressors. This is not the Islam from the Qur'an and sane mind.

Edited by Faruk

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3 hours ago, Faruk said:

His hatred was not towards the Ahl al-Kisa in particular but towards everyone closely related to Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Do you really think he would make a distinction between his wives and his family?

Wdym not towards the ahl al kisa

who poisoned Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) then?

who was the one that waged war against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and ordered the cursing of him after every prayer 

who was the one that spread false beliefs about the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

And I don’t believe Mu’awiya (la) poisoned Aisha , as I mentioned before technically she was on his side anyway for waging war against him so what reason would he have to poison her

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9 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

And I don’t believe Mu’awiya (la) poisoned Aisha , as I mentioned before technically she was on his side anyway for waging war against him so what reason would he have to poison her

He did not poisoned her (رضي الله عنه). but it is believed he killed her in another way.

From the Shia point of view this seems strange but the ting is that Muawiyah was an opportunist whose aim was not to destroy the Ahl al-Bayt in particular but everyone who had a close relationship to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). which was rooted in his deep hate towards Islam.

Second of all,

I don't believe that such a bold accusation made by at least three Sunni scholars came out of entirely nothing. 

I do not confirm it nor do I deny it. It believe it could have happened.

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