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In the Name of God بسم الله

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(salam)

Who is Allah? What is Allah?

According to Sunnis He has a body and Shi’as totally reject this (I can’t imagine for Allah to have a body either na’uzubillah). But, what is Allah, if he is “infinite”. Is he behind our comprehension? If he is infinite, how are we going to answer him on the Day. He is not an “energy”, nor is he nowhere, neither everywhere and not even somewhere, since that limits him! Have our Imams (عليه السلام) explained this, or can only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) explain Himself?

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2 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

(salam)

Who is Allah? What is Allah?

According to Sunnis He has a body and Shi’as totally reject this (I can’t imagine for Allah to have a body either na’uzubillah). But, what is Allah, if he is “infinite”. Is he behind our comprehension? If he is infinite, how are we going to answer him on the Day. He is not an “energy”, nor is he nowhere, neither everywhere and not even somewhere, since that limits him! Have our Imams (عليه السلام) explained this, or can only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) explain Himself?

wrong buzzer, he is everywhere but not physically, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Lady Fatima Zahra (عليه السلام) have beautifully defined tauheed. Read Tauheed in Nehjul Balagaha and also in Khutaba which Hazrat-e-Fatima (عليه السلام) gave before the Hazrat Abu bakar.

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When Imam Muhammad al Baqir (عليه السلام) was asked what is Allah (عزّ وجلّ) ? Imam Muhammad Baqir (عليه السلام) said: "He is King of the worlds". Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is one with whose power we exist. A King who is in no need of army but the army depends on the King.

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 “There is nothing like Him” (42.11).“

Vision cannot grasp Him, but He grasps all vision; and He is the Subtle One, the Aware One” (6.103).

Even Sunni who take the verses of looking at Allah literally say it's outside our understanding. So in a sense nobody beleives he has a body the way we understand physical form.

All though this is a beautiful example of how Sunni literalism has trapped them.

Edited by Warilla

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7 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

Yes! I actually wouldn’t be so cool if I saw a man in front of me, who is the supposed person I worship!

Exactly, it's a pity that the Lord has been ridiculed throughout history as a man with a long white beard and robe on. People make jokes about 'a man in the sky', even depicting him as such, if people did not limit Him to such a level nobody could imagine Him in order to make a joke.

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32 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

Exactly, it's a pity that the Lord has been ridiculed throughout history as a man with a long white beard and robe on. People make jokes about 'a man in the sky', even depicting him as such, if people did not limit Him to such a level nobody could imagine Him in order to make a joke.

Salam, 

If I’m not mistaken, you’re a Sunni brother and I didn’t mean to generalize, when I said that Sunnis believe in Allah having a body. I’m giving this attention, because when I tell people that I’m Shi’a, they associate me with those ghulat-Shi’as (a lot of the times). And that pretty much annoys me. I hope I didn’t make you feel the same way.

Edited by Mortadakerim

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3 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

Salam, 

If I’m not mistaken, you’re a Sunni brother and I didn’t mean to generalize, when I said that Sunnis believe in Allah having a body. I’m giving this attention, because when I tell people that I’m Shi’a, they associate me with those ghulat-Shi’as (a lot of the times). And that pretty much annoys me. I hope I didn’t make you feel the same way.

I fall out of the realms of what modern day Sunnis would define as being Sunni and I don't meet the criteria of what Shi'a see as essential to Shi'a belief. I'm an oddball when you read it on paper I guess. However you didn't generalise, I think a lot of Sunnis do believe in human features to an extent, even if they won't see it that way.

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101. Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.

102.That is Allah, your Lord, there is no God but He; the Creator of all things, therefore serve Him, and He has charge of all things.

103.Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.

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7 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

(salam)

Who is Allah? What is Allah?

According to Sunnis He has a body and Shi’as totally reject this (I can’t imagine for Allah to have a body either na’uzubillah). But, what is Allah, if he is “infinite”. Is he behind our comprehension? If he is infinite, how are we going to answer him on the Day. He is not an “energy”, nor is he nowhere, neither everywhere and not even somewhere, since that limits him! Have our Imams (عليه السلام) explained this, or can only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) explain Himself?

According to the Qur'an God has hands and a face and a throne that He rises over etc..  furthermore, according in the Qur'an God has described Himself with human qualities such as “Hearing”, and “Seeing” among many other things.

This isn’t a Sunni thing, it is simply the Truth as the Qur'an says so.  If we Shias have a problem with what the Qur'an says then Either we don’t truly understand Shiaism or Shiaism is just wrong.  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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Who is Allah?

Allah is the magical Electricity out of which everything is formed. He is the invisible Intelligence who disgorges from His vast riches of conscious Energy this universe of erupting stars and exploding galaxies. He lives in His creation, as a dreamer lives in his dreams, imbuing them with his own intelligence and animating them with his own animate imagination.
He is the only Animator in all this wealth of manifold, magical forms. It is He alone who lives as man and woman, bird and beast, cloud and shore. When we, His puny animated dreamimages, imagine we have a life and being all our own, we selfishly imagine that we have some intelligence, some beauty, some worth, all our own; and we proudly boast of our talents and accomplishments, unaware that all is His doing. But if we are able to comprehend His intelligence, His beauty, His worth, within us, then we may be able to turn within and know that One who is our life, our beauty, our intelligence, our joy.

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

According to the Qur'an God has hands and a face and a throne that He rises over etc..  furthermore, according in the Qur'an God has described Himself with human qualities such as “Hearing”, and “Seeing” among many other things.

This isn’t a Sunni thing, it is simply the Truth as the Qur'an says so.  If we Shias have a problem with what the Qur'an says then Either we don’t truly understand Shiaism or Shiaism is just wrong.  

 

Can you quote the verses. As even Sunni scholars differ on the opinion of the "physical" form.

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21 minutes ago, Warilla said:

Can you quote the verses. As even Sunni scholars differ on the opinion of the "physical" form.

If you check with corpusquran.com, "hand" is used as a noun for any verb expressing 'doing'. My  explanation: "In Your Hand" (ayat 3:26) equates with 'a controlling doing'. Compare this with other ayats containing the word 'hand' --like with the Prophet's-saws enemies 'writing with their hands'. Also, 2:95.  Allah-(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). cannot be compared with Man -that is shirk.

With the word "Face", you approach differently. The phrase "on the face of it", "the face of it is", and variations of the word such as 'to deface' something are your lead. Rhetorically, What is a Face? Something presented to your sight. Ayats 13:2 and 16:79.

And we are also at ayat 6:103, still.

Ayat 13:2 also reflects back on 'hand' (regulate, control).

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6 minutes ago, Diaz said:

This article cites 16:44, to which you can add  25:33

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3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

qualities such as “Hearing”, and “Seeing” among many other things.

Allah doesn’t depend on ears when he hears something, neither on eyes when he sees something. Humans catch the sounds that they hear, so they cannot  hear everything at the same time, but Allah can, if he can hear everything, then why would Allah create ears for Himself. He has an infinite hearing and everything he hears and there’s nothing he doesn’t hear. So, there is no need to limit him.

wasalam

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

According to the Qur'an God has hands and a face and a throne that He rises over etc..  furthermore, according in the Qur'an God has described Himself with human qualities such as “Hearing”, and “Seeing” among many other things.

This isn’t a Sunni thing, it is simply the Truth as the Qur'an says so.  If we Shias have a problem with what the Qur'an says then Either we don’t truly understand Shiaism or Shiaism is just wrong.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Shams of tabriz said:

Who is Allah?

Allah is the magical Electricity out of which everything is formed. He is the invisible Intelligence who disgorges from His vast riches of conscious Energy this universe of erupting stars and exploding galaxies. He lives in His creation, as a dreamer lives in his dreams, imbuing them with his own intelligence and animating them with his own animate imagination.
He is the only Animator in all this wealth of manifold, magical forms. It is He alone who lives as man and woman, bird and beast, cloud and shore. When we, His puny animated dreamimages, imagine we have a life and being all our own, we selfishly imagine that we have some intelligence, some beauty, some worth, all our own; and we proudly boast of our talents and accomplishments, unaware that all is His doing. But if we are able to comprehend His intelligence, His beauty, His worth, within us, then we may be able to turn within and know that One who is our life, our beauty, our intelligence, our joy.

 

2 hours ago, Warilla said:

Can you quote the verses. As even Sunni scholars differ on the opinion of the "physical" form.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_Muhammad_b._'Ali_al-Jawad_(a)

Activities of Other Sects

From the questions of Shi'as and the answers of Imam al-Jawad (a) mentioned in Shi'a sources, it can be learned that during the imamate of Imam al-Jawad (a), People of Hadith, Waqifids, Zaydis and Ghulat were also active that time. People of Hadith believed in the embodiment of God and Imam al-Jawad (a) prohibited Shi'a of following them in congregational prayers and paying zakat to them.[43]

In answering Abu Hashim al-Ja'fari who asked about the meaning of the verse "The sights do not apprehend Him, yet He apprehends the sights" (Qur'an 6:103), Imam al-Jawad (a) rejected the possibility of seeing God by eyes (the belief in the embodiment) and said, "fantasies of the heart are more delicate than the eyesight. Human being can fantasize things he has not seen. When fantasies of the hearts cannot perceive God, how may the eyes see Him?"[44]

There are hadiths narrated from Imam al-Jawad (a) in which he (a) considered Zaydiyya and Waqifiyya similar to Nasibis.[45] He (a) said that the verses "Some faces on that day will be humbled, (2) wrought-up and weary" (Qur'an 88:2-3) were revealed about them.[46] Also, Imam al-Jawad (a) prohibited his companions from following Waqifiyya in congregational prayers.[47]

Imam al-Jawad (a) also cursed Ghulat [exaggerators] such as Abu l-Khattab and his followers. He (a) also cursed those who doubted or were silent about cursing Abu l-Khattab.[48] He (a) introduced people such as Abu l-Ghamr, Ja'far b. Waqid, and Hashim b. Abi Hashim, as followers of Abu l-Khattab and said that they abuse people in our names.[49] Also in a hadith, he (a) permitted the killing of two of Ghulat who were Abu l-Mahri and Ibn Abi Razqa' because of their role in deviation of Shi'a.[50] It is said that in letters Imam (a) sent to his deputies, prohibited Shi'a of associating with Ghulat.[citation needed]

Also, Imam al-Jawad (a) addressed Muhammad b. Sinan and rejected the claim of Mufawwida about leaving the creation and management of the world to the Prophet (a).[51]

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6 hours ago, Warilla said:

101. Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.

102.That is Allah, your Lord, there is no God but He; the Creator of all things, therefore serve Him, and He has charge of all things.

103.Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.

Those are some of my favorite Ayat, 57:3 as well "He is the first and the last, the outward and the inward, he is the knower of all things".

2:115 also "And Allah is neither East nor West, therefore wherever you turn is the face of Allah. Allah is all-pervading, all-knowing".

 

Edited by HakimPtsid

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13 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

(salam)

Who is Allah? What is Allah?

According to Sunnis He has a body and Shi’as totally reject this (I can’t imagine for Allah to have a body either na’uzubillah). But, what is Allah, if he is “infinite”. Is he behind our comprehension? If he is infinite, how are we going to answer him on the Day. He is not an “energy”, nor is he nowhere, neither everywhere and not even somewhere, since that limits him! Have our Imams (عليه السلام) explained this, or can only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) explain Himself?

"He who assigns to Him (different) conditions does not believe in His Oneness, nor does he who likens Him grasp His reality. He who illustrates Him does not signify Him. He who points at Him and imagines Him does not mean Him. Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause). He works but not with the help of instruments. He fixes measures but not with the activity of thinking. He is rich but not by acquisition. Times do not keep company with Him, and implements do not help Him. His Being precedes times. His Existence precedes non-existence and His eternity precedes beginning. By His creating the senses it is known that He has no senses. By the contraries in various matters it is known that He has no contrary, and by the similarity between things it is known that there is nothing similar to Him. He has made light the contrary of darkness, brightness that of gloom, dryness that of moisture and heat that of cold.

He produces affection among inimical things. He fuses together diverse things, brings near remote things and separates things which are joined together. He is not confined by limits, nor counted by numbers. Material parts can surround things of their own kind, and organs can point out things similar to themselves.

The word "mundhu" (I.e. since) disproves their eternity, the word "qad" (that denotes nearness of time of occurrence), disproves their being from ever and the word "lawla" (if it were not) keep them remote from perfection. Through them the Creator manifests Himself to the intelligence, and through them He is guarded from the sight of the eyes.

Stillness and motion do not occur in Him, and how can that thing occur in Him which He has Himself made to occur, and how can a thing revert to Him which He first created, and how can a thing appear in Him which He first brought to appearance. If it had not been so, His Self would have become subject to diversity, His Being would have become divisible (into parts), and His reality would have been prevented from being deemed Eternal.

If there was a front to Him there would have been a rear also for Him. He would need completing only if shortage befell Him. In that case signs of the created would appear in Him, and He would become a sign (leading to other objects) instead of signs leading to Him. Through the might of His abstention (from affectedness) He is far above being affected by things which affect others. He is that which does not change or vanish. The process of setting does not behove Him. He has not begotten any one lest He be regarded as having been born. He has not been begotten otherwise He would be contained within limits. He is too High to have sons. He is too purified to contact women. Imagination cannot reach Him so as to assign Him quantity. Understanding cannot think of Him so as to give him shape. Senses do not perceive Him so as to feel Him. Hands cannot touch Him so as to rub against Him. He does not change into any condition. He does not pass from one state to another. Nights and days do not turn Him old. Light and darkness do not alter Him. 

He cannot be described through (the possession of) parts, or through limbs and organs, or by a an accidental quality or alteration or portions. It cannot be said that He has a limit or extremity, or end or termination; nor do things control Him so as to raise Him or lower Him, nor does anything carry Him so as to bend Him or keep Him erect. He is not inside things or outside them. He conveys news, but not with the tongue or voice. He listens, but not with the holes of the ears or the organs of hearing. He says, but does not utter words.

He remembers, but does not memorise. He determines, but not by exercising His mind. He loves and approves without any sentimentality (of heart). He hates and feels angry without any painstaking. When He intends to create something He says ‘"..Be" and it is’ (2:117), but not through a voice that strikes (the ears) is that call heard. His speech is an act of His creation. His like never existed before this. If it had been eternal it would have been a second God. 

It cannot be said that He came into being after He had not been in existence because in that case the attributes of the created things would be assigned to Him and there would remain no difference between them and Him, and He would have no distinction over them. Thus, the Creator and the created would become equal and the initiator and the initiated would be on the same level. He created (the whole of) creation without any example made by someone else, and He did not secure the assistance of any one out of His creation for creating it. He created the Earth and suspended it without being busy, retained it without support, made it stand without legs, raised it without pillars, protected it against bendings and curvings and defended it against crumbling and splitting (into parts). He fixed mountains on it like stumps, solidified its rocks, caused its streams to flow and opened wide its valleys. Whatever He made did not suffer from any frailty, and whatever He strengthened did not show any weakness. He manifests Himself over the Earth with His authority and greatness. He is aware of its inside through his knowledge and understanding. He has power over every thing in the Earth by virtue of His sublimity and dignity. Nothing from the Earth that he may ask for defies Him, nor does it oppose Him so as to overpower Him. No swift-footed creature can run away from Him so as to surpass Him. He is not needy towards any possessing person so that he should feed Him. All things bow to Him and are humble before His greatness. They cannot flee away from His authority to someone else in order to escape His benefit or His harm. There is no parallel for Him who may match Him and no one like Him so as to equal Him.

- Imam Ali, sermon 186 Nahjul Balagha

 

Basically, you cannot take Tawhid lightly. Tawhid is not simply "there is only one God", if it was only that then Islam wouldn't be very special. Tawhid encapsulates all Ontology. 

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2:255 Allah is HU! There is no God (deity), only HU! The Hayy and the Qayyum (the sole source of life and the One who forms all things in His Knowledge with the meanings of His Names – the One with whom everything subsists). Neither drowsiness overtakes Him (separation from the worlds even for a single instance) nor sleep (leaving creation to its own accord and withdrawing to His Self). To Him belongs everything in the heavens and on Earth (the dimensions of knowledge and acts). Who can intercede in His sight except by the permission of the forces that manifest from the Names in one’s essence? He knows the dimension in which they live and the dimension they are unable to perceive... Nothing of His knowledge can be grasped if He does not will (allow via the suitability of the Names in one’s essence). His throne (sovereignty and administration [Rububiyyah]) encompasses the heavens and the Earth. It is not difficult for Him to preserve them. He is the Aliy (illimitably supreme) and the Azim (possessor of infinite might).

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7 hours ago, Warilla said:

Can you quote the verses. As even Sunni scholars differ on the opinion of the "physical" form.

I never used the word "physical form"  I am simply telling you all what is standard in the Qur'an and what any Muslim needs to accept:

And there will remain the Face of your Lord, Owner of Majesty and Honor. (Surah Rahman verse 27)

What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands.  (Surah Sad, 38: 75)

Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. :(Surah Al-Ma'idah, 5: 64)

In order that you may be brought up under My Eye.

Allah (may He be Exalted) says:(Surah Al-Qamar, 54: 14) "Floating under Our Eyes".

"There is nothing like unto Him,and He is the All-Hearing,the All-seeing" (.Soorah ash-Shooraa 42:11)

As far as ahadeeth are concerned, all should be aware of the following ahadieeh

(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (I.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate themselves (to Allýh), but they (hypocrites, and those who pray to show off or to gain good reputation) shall not be able to do so.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) interpreted the Ayah to mean that Allah (may He be Exalted) will uncover His Shin on the Day of Resurrection whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him out of reverence and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but they will not be able to do so.

In the same context, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "I saw my Lord (may He be Glorified and Exalted) in the best صورة Soorah (form)."[1] He also said: "Allah created Adam in the صورةSoorah (Image) of The Most Beneficent."[2] This is in addition to many Nusus (Islamic texts from the Qurýan or the Sunnah) including Allah's Attributes.

the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The people will be thrown into the Fire and it will keep on saying, ýIs there any more?ý until the Lord of the worlds puts His Foot over it." According to another narration of the Hadith, he (peace be upon him) said: ...His Foot over it, whereupon its different sides will come close to each other, and it will say: Enough! Enough!"

To the same effect, Allah (may He be Exalted) says to Musa (Moses - peace be upon him):(Surah TaýHa, 20: 39)

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

Allah doesn’t depend on ears when he hears something, neither on eyes when he sees something. Humans catch the sounds that they hear, so they cannot  hear everything at the same time, but Allah can, if he can hear everything, then why would Allah create ears for Himself. He has an infinite hearing and everything he hears and there’s nothing he doesn’t hear. So, there is no need to limit him.

wasalam

Are you questioning the Qur'an?  

Edited by eThErEaL

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The people will be thrown into the Fire and it will keep on saying, ýIs there any more?ý until the Lord of the worlds puts His Foot over it." According to another narration of the Hadith, he (peace be upon him) said: ...His Foot over it, whereupon its different sides will come close to each other, and it will say: Enough! Enough

Everyone that accepts it is not Muslim anymore ,it's just comes from Israelites by Jews 

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32 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Then stop questioning It.

Salamun Alaykum,

Brother, show me where I did question the Holy Qur'an.

Please show me where Allah refers to Himself as having a body (clearly/literal).

Can you see a hand? Sure! But, what about this verse:

No vision grasps Him

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