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BowTie

Pedosexual? Is that next?

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

 

He was talking from a pure Jurisprudential point of view, not other.

But unfortunately it still doesnt add up. As much as I can make justification, I’m not convinced.

So does he was for really doing that or not at the end? 

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Not only is this a 'thing'  in terms of child marriage (irrespective of whether it's consensual or not) as @Propaganda_of_the_Deed has pointed out. But we've also got the thighing fatwa. Last I checked, at the very least, Ayatollah Sistani and Khomeini allow it. I've even read that ayatollah Khomeini said the rule applies to a "suckling baby". 

Edited by 2Timeless

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46 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Not only is this a 'thing'  in terms of child marriage (irrespective of whether it's consensual or not) as @Propaganda_of_the_Deed has pointed out. But we've also got the thighing fatwa. Last I checked, at the very least, Ayatollah Sistani and Khomeini allow it. I've even read that ayatollah Khomeini said the rule applies to a "suckling baby". 

I'm really confused - please excuse my ignorance here as I can't get my head around this. I'm probably missing the background. Within what capacity can a man in 'theory' molest a baby? Surely a random man can't do this to any random baby. Presumably the man has to be married to the baby? If so, how does the Nikah take place when a baby can't say yes and consent the Nikah.

Can anyone explain this to me please?

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20 minutes ago, Aflower said:

I'm really confused - please excuse my ignorance here as I can't get my head around this. I'm probably missing the background. Within what capacity can a man in 'theory' molest a baby? Surely a random man can't do this to any random baby. Presumably the man has to be married to the baby? If so, how does the Nikah take place when a baby can't say yes and consent the Nikah.

Can anyone explain this to me please?

I was, and still am, extremely confused and disgusted by this. I've discussed this with others on here and read some articles about it from a Shia perspective. According to my understanding, a man can marry a baby and 'use' her to pleasure himself. So he can gain pleasure without having full sexual intercourse with her. 

Edit - I'm just stating what I know about the law. I personally don’t understand it, neither do I support it.

Edited by 2Timeless

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5 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

I was, and still am, extremely confused and disgusted by this. I've discussed this with others on here and read some articles about it from a Shia perspective. According to my understanding, a man can marry a baby and 'use' her to pleasure himself. So he can gain pleasure without having full sexual intercourse with her. 

The more this fatwa is spread online, the more likely the Shi'a community is to become even more hated than it is now. It baffles me why any figure of authority would say such a thing, knowing full well the people under his watch will become targets.

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10 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

I I personally don’t understand it, neither do I support it.

Ditto. 

By way of explanation, the angry emoji I selected was my reaction to this concept - not your explanation. I know that you would never support this type of ideology or practice.

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11 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

The more this fatwa is spread online, the more likely the Shi'a community is to become even more hated than it is now. It baffles me why any figure of authority would say such a thing, knowing full well the people under his watch will become targets.

I agree that no modern Muslim would probably practice it, but what's more worrying is the actual ideology. This is supposedly part of our religion...

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5 hours ago, Ali~J said:

While this thread is ongoing can someone explain this:

 

D1oxmtQW0AMXe-4.jpg

 

5 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

 

Tahreer al-Waseelah, volume 2, page 343 Issue #12: It is not permissible to have sexual intercourse (with one’s wife) before she reaches 9 years in age, be it in Nikaah (permanent marriage) or Mut’a (temporary marriage). As for all other pleasures such as lustful touch, embracing, and thighing (I.e., rubbing penis between the thighs), there is no problem in it, even if she is a suckling baby.

https://www.leader.ir/ar/book/13?sn=6910

Lost all respect for Ayatollah Khomeini from this. What a shame. Does anyone know if Sistani holds similar views? Fadlallah?

Edited by 786:)

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1 minute ago, 2Timeless said:

I agree that no modern Muslim would probably practice it, but what's more worrying is the actual ideology. This is supposedly part of our religion...

I wouldn't be so sure! There are some really messed up people out there and if an Ayattulah states it is permissible, there are bound to be people who would willingly and happily jump on this band wagon. There will probably be many poor and desperate people in third world countries who would in a way, sell their daughters in return for mehr to allow this to happen. Nothing shocks me any more - but it never fails to disgust me. 

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1 minute ago, 2Timeless said:

I agree that no modern Muslim would probably practice it, but what's more worrying is the actual ideology. This is supposedly part of our religion...

I genuinely worry for Shi'a communities because right now the focus is on Sunni extremists, at a push someone might make fun of self flagellation but I think far right movements have little knowledge of Shi'a practices. Once they read this, that's it, and they will read it. Whether it's supposedly true or not, sense says that whoever works in the office of the scholars or whatever, they need to remove it from search engines and from books. It makes no difference to Shi'a members in Iran, but in countries in Europe and America or in Australia it is going to put people at risk.

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3 minutes ago, Aflower said:

I wouldn't be so sure! There are some really messed up people out there and if an Ayattulah states it is permissible, there are bound to be people who would willingly and happily jump on this band wagon. There will probably be many poor and desperate people in third world countries who would in a way, sell their daughters in return for mehr to allow this to happen. Nothing shocks me any more - but it never fails to disgust me. 

Was just about to say this myself.

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Luckily I didn't post other post similar quotes of Ayatollah Khomeini, if you saw them then you might even insult him or something because they're so strange and mind bending.... The other quotes I saw are quite worrying... 

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13 minutes ago, Ali~J said:

Luckily I didn't post other post similar quotes of Ayatollah Khomeini, if you saw them then you might even insult him or something because they're so strange and mind bending.... The other quotes I saw are quite worrying... 

You know people are going to ask for them now. Curiosity is like an itch that doesn't go away once it's embedded.

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The thighing fatwa has been discussed 100 times already, I suggest you guys to search up old threads on it.

Rest assured there is no fatwa from Imam Khomeini that you can find that you find strange that has not been discussed already by all sorts of people with all sorts of knowledge levels. 

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2 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

You know people are going to ask for them now. Curiosity is like an itch that doesn't go away once it's embedded.

Why would they ask for something which will just make them disappointed. I really looked up to Ayatollah Khomeini and now I just don't know. The other quotes were heart breaking to read.... I won't let anyone else read them.

I only said this: 

19 minutes ago, Ali~J said:

Luckily I didn't post other post similar quotes of Ayatollah Khomeini, if you saw them then you might even insult him or something because they're so strange and mind bending.... The other quotes I saw are quite worrying... 

Because I want people to know that this isn't just the one off quote, there are others too of the same nature... 

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Shi’I Islam takes a different approach, consistent with its own focus respecting the purpose of sex regulation. My focus here is on that subject that most preoccupies modern Shi’I jurists, which is sex between an adult man and a young girl to whom he is married.

It is worth noting as an initial matter that such a marriage is possible. A 
paternal father or grandfather has a right of guardianship that enables him to marry his sons and daughters before they are adults.


Moreover, the age at which a girl becomes an adult is quite young—
specifically, nine lunar years of age, which is approximately eight 
years and nine months.


That Shi’I jurists allow child marriages is not in and of itself particularly surprising. If the foundation of sex is not the realization of any particular value of autonomy, but the establishment of gender hierarchies and the availability of plentiful God-centered sex within 
the context of the nikah, then the marriage of young girls is by itself 
unproblematic. 


Of course, given her marital rights, it is important that the guardian exercising the right to marry his daughter do so with her best interests in mind. This would mean that he marry her to a respectable person with means to support her, who offers her a sufficient mahr. 


Thus, Shi’I jurists condition the right of the father or paternal grandfather to the absence of a corrupt purpose, and, in some cases, the perception of a benefit. They further specifically disallow marriages that seem to be contracted with unsuitable husbands, and do not permit any man in the absence of a living father or paternal grandfather (or any other direct lineal male ascendant) to marry off a minor ward, out of fear that such a guardian would not be acting in the ward’s main interest.

 

Thus, it is not as if there are no interests to consider on the part of a young girl—it is merely that her right to exercise sexual autonomy over her own body is not one of them. Hence, if the husband is suitable, offers a mahr, has the means to support his wife, and merely happens to enjoy sex with nine-year-olds, no particular problem arises. In fact, some of the jurists go so far as to encourage marriages at such a young age, quoting two different Imams to the effect that it adds to a man’s happiness that his daughter not menstruate in his home.


Modern jurists further describe as unproblematic sexual enjoyments with a child bride, including kissing, grasping with appetite, and even “thighing” (the same term as used to refer to the scriptural crime when two men engage in it).

There is no minimum age for this, and Hakim goes so far as to indicate it is permissible even if the child is still nursing.

Again, that some men enjoy sex 
with children is not a reason to deny it to them within this normative framework, so long as they engage in it in a God-centered fashion, avoid fornication, and make sure to fulfill their financial marital obligations to their wives in the process. In fact, there is some reason to permit it, precisely because otherwise men who enjoy sex with children might seek it outside of the confines of the nikah, and thereby engage in the highly impermissible act of fornication. 


There is one obvious problem with all of this that the jurists recognized, and this is that the penetration of a young girl could cause obvious physical harm to her. They did as a result try to take account of this. First, they declared penetration of a girl anally or vaginally to be impermissible prior to her reaching the age of nine, and there is no dispute among them on this point.

The specific reason is the lack of 
a girl younger than this to handle such penetration.Given how generally permissive Shi’I Islam is as concerns sexual enjoyment of a wife within the nikah, the restriction is considerable. 
This leaves two obvious questions. First, precisely what happens to a husband who breaks this rule and penetrates his child bride before the age of nine? Second, is there any consequence if a husband causes his wife physical harm through penetration after the age of nine? 


As to the first, because the sole problem is not violation of autonomy, but rather the causing of physical harm, modern jurists have broadly read the ambiguous source text to conclude there is no earthly consequence to the husband’s penetration if he does not cause severe harm.

In so doing, they have rejected an alternative interpretation, described by Grand Ayatollah Hakim as “majority,” 
denying the husband the right to have sex with his wife again as a 
consequence of this sin.


It would be fair to point out that jurists such as Sistani indicate 
the sin remains even if no harm ensues. Thus, the rules seem to presume that there are believers who are willing to have sex with their wives while clothed, reciting the names of God, avoiding sex on boats, during eclipses and at the end of each month, all due to a series of rules that recommend some conduct and disfavor other conduct. 


Such believers are then not likely to engage in a form of sex that is 
not merely disfavored, but entirely prohibited. One less enamored of 
the rules, however—Holmes’ proverbial “bad man,” for example—
might feel less constrained. 


In any event, there are legal consequences to a husband 
penetrating an underage wife if the penetration causes “ripping,” which means the combination of one of the urinal, anal or menstrual pathways with another one of them.

In that case, the modern jurists 
take the position that, whether or not the man remains married to the 
girl, he must pay her what is known as blood money. In taking this 
position, the jurists reject alternative source text that would suggest 
that no such amounts are due so long as the marriage remains 
intact. Modern jurists are thus adopting positions subject to earlier debate that both enable sexual enjoyment on the part of husbands, but also impose financial consequences on them for doing so. 


The concept of blood money arises in the case of the law of retaliation, whereby, upon an intentional injury inflicted by one person onto another, the victim (or his male relatives, if he dies) has the choice to inflict a retaliatory injury on the perpetrator or to receive blood money, but not both. Within “intentional” injury is some notion of extreme recklessness, such that a person who digs a well in 
a public road in a manner that would ordinarily kill a person who fell in would be deemed subject to retaliation whether the purpose was to kill someone or not. However, where the perpetrator inflicted the injury as a matter of ordinary recklessness or even mistake, then retaliation is not possible, and only blood money is due. By 
declaring blood money due, and making no reference to the possibility of retaliation, the jurists seem to view the injury as akin to a mistake, even if a culpable one, rather than some sort of extreme recklessness.


The amount the husband owes is the same amount that would be 
due to her relatives if he had killed her.There are various standards 
that can be used to measure this amount, but the most common would 
probably be five hundred gold dinars, equal to 2.25 kg of gold, or about US $75,000 in 2015. 


Other important consequences attach if the husband causes a ripping of his wife. Specifically, many of the legal effects of marriage would remain his for his life even if he chose to divorce her. Thus, he could not take four permanent wives in addition to her, she would be entitled to inherit as his wife, he could not marry her sister, and, perhaps most importantly of all to her, his obligation to support her would remain for life, even if he divorced her and she married 
someone else.


As for sex with a girl nine lunar years or older, this constitutes no sin at all, because the girl is deemed an adult. Thus, if he causes the ripping referred to before, he need not pay blood money, as he has done no wrong, and only engaged in lawful sex. That said, the jurists plainly were aware that the harm done to the girl would effectively make it nearly impossible for her to remarry, and hence imposed upon him the same obligations as they did for the ripping of an underage girl, except for the blood money. Specifically, the legal effects of marriage, including support and a right to a portion of the inheritance, 
remain on the husband for life.


To be clear, these obligations are not insignificant, and it would be unfair to describe them as such. The blood money is quite large—almost surely larger than any dower a husband would agree to pay except in the richest of families. Moreover, a lifelong support obligation means that the injured woman has some modicum of financial security that other women would lack, for no reason other than that the husbands of healthy women might divorce them and be free of all obligations to them after the waiting period. The jurists are thus not indifferent to physical injury that can occur to young girls 
if they have premature sex. 


What they do not seem to take into account is any other harm arising from sex with minors that requires compensation, punishment or both. This is because there is no sense that the deprivation of autonomy over the body, among the greatest forms of 
deprivation imaginable in the liberal consciousness, and a key pillar 
around which much sex regulation is based in the liberal society, is in 
fact a recognizable harm that demands legal recognition. The key 
areas of concern are not ensuring autonomy and consent, but instead, 
preventing acts that will cause a breakdown of gender hierarchy, the 
seeking of sex outside of the bounds of the nikah, and excessive licentiousness due to the unquenchable desire for sex that would lead the believers away from a God-centered moral life. The fact is that marital sex with children, unlike homosexuality or fornication, constitutes none of these, and therefore need not be prevented in such strong terms.

From:

Sex and the Shari'a: Defining Gender Norms and Sexual Deviancy in Shi'I Islam

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Guest foreigner

Please tell me Sistani doesn't have the same views abt this as Khomeini. I literally can't wrap my head around this, I'm so upset right now?? As someone earlier said in the thread, I also look(ed) up to Khomeini but this quote is just disgusting, how can you say something like this ://// I don't know how to feel to be honest I hope this quote is not true and made up by someone .. 

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1 hour ago, aaaz1618 said:

This thread is just grim.

I will therefore kiss my two children good night as they dream about giggling, rose syrup milk and cartoons, as all children should without fear of being hurt. I will then pray that none of our children are ever subjected to such abhorrent acts and then I will sit down and have a stiff cup of decaffeinated coffee.

My peace to you and yours, brothers and sisters.

On a serious note, may I recommend the black aqeeq rings they're meant to protect children... 

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1 hour ago, Ali~J said:

On a serious note, may I recommend the black aqeeq rings they're meant to protect children... 

I was being serious, and I shan't be taking that recommendation for obvious reasons.

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7 hours ago, Guest foreigner said:

Please tell me Sistani doesn't have the same views abt this as Khomeini. I literally can't wrap my head around this, I'm so upset right now?? As someone earlier said in the thread, I also look(ed) up to Khomeini but this quote is just disgusting, how can you say something like this ://// I don't know how to feel to be honest I hope this quote is not true and made up by someone .. 

I was told this was propaganda made up by Wahhabbi groups but it's looking more and more likely he did approve of this. Especially if there were other marjas who voiced similar views as well.

The thighing threads are just another example of subjects that shouldn't be up for debate and should unanimously considered harmful to society and ultimately haram.

I thought the Jafari madhab was the school of logic and reason...

It breaks my heart to see some ok with and try to defend this vile practice.

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14 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

The more this fatwa is spread online, the more likely the Shi'a community is to become even more hated than it is now. It baffles me why any figure of authority would say such a thing, knowing full well the people under his watch will become targets.

Salam these are secondary Fatwas in Shia fiqh that needs pre requisition & applies for specific time & condition but would be available for same condition in future use but all of them are better than Sunni Fatwas that makes adult men as Mahram of adult women by three times breast feeding of mature strange men by a woman that breastfeeds her child 

14 hours ago, 786:) said:

Lost all respect for Ayatollah Khomeini from this. What a shame. Does anyone know if Sistani holds similar views? Fadlallah?

Salam this is because you can't differ secondary fatwa from general Fatwas that these type of secondary fatwas are just for specific conditions & time not a general fatwa for all conditions & time.

14 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

I genuinely worry for Shi'a communities because right now the focus is on Sunni extremists, at a push someone might make fun of self flagellation but I think far right movements have little knowledge of Shi'a practices. Once they read this, that's it, and they will read it. Whether it's supposedly true or not, sense says that whoever works in the office of the scholars or whatever, they need to remove it from search engines and from books. It makes no difference to Shi'a members in Iran, but in countries in Europe and America or in Australia it is going to put people at risk.

self flagation is now prohibited by majority of Shia Marjas & there is some groups that are trying to replace it with blood donation that best example of it was Sheikh Zakzaky that as a new generation of scholars from Qom successfully replaced Tatbir with blood donation but arrested by support of Wahabist/Salafist  like as mufti Menk from Nigerian tyrants & Shirazi cult that spreads Tatbir never faced any problem by Wahabi/Salafi groups that even supports by British secret services like as MI6 & mostly british newspapers like as independent are putting pictures & movies of Tatbir to keep these type of bad propaganda high in search engines results 

13 hours ago, Ali~J said:

Luckily I didn't post other post similar quotes of Ayatollah Khomeini, if you saw them then you might even insult him or something because they're so strange and mind bending.... The other quotes I saw are quite worrying... 

most of them are just were temporary fatwas not permanent 

12 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

This thread is just grim.

I will therefore kiss my two children good night as they dream about giggling, rose syrup milk and cartoons, as all children should without fear of being hurt. I will then pray that none of our children are ever subjected to such abhorrent acts and then I will sit down and have a stiff cup of decaffeinated coffee.

My peace to you and yours, brothers and sisters.

 

4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I was told this was propaganda made up by Wahhabbi groups but it's looking more and more likely he did approve of this. Especially if there were other marjas who voiced similar views as well.

The thighing threads are just another example of subjects that shouldn't be up for debate and should unanimously considered harmful to society and ultimately haram.

I thought the Jafari madhab was the school of logic and reason...

It breaks my heart to see some ok with and try to defend this vile practice.

having a bad ruling is better that doesn't have a ruling that Sunni Madhab specialli wahabi side completely lacks from logic about these issues that leads to allowing Jihad of Nikah & raping one woman by multiple ISIS fighters as a norm between them but they easily erased their traces in Internet & social media by making propaganda & noise around old secondary fatwas that nowadays abandons between Shia community but repeats for caution & avoiding gaps about this matter in Rislas that this fatwa was helpful during era & generation of Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه)  for example , Aunt of my father married in childhood that this fatwa helped her to save from suffering in her childhood ,that this fatwa can helps other girls from raping in childhood that live in tribal areas of Iran & Iraq but it completely abandoned in rural areas & cities .

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13 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

The more this fatwa is spread online, the more likely the Shi'a community is to become even more hated than it is now. It baffles me why any figure of authority would say such a thing, knowing full well the people under his watch will become targets.

Salam these are secondary Fatwas in Shia fiqh that needs pre requisition & applies for specific time & condition but would be available for same condition in future use but all of them are better than Sunni Fatwas that makes adult men as Mahram of adult women by three times breast feeding of mature strange men by a woman that breastfeeds her child 

13 hours ago, 786:) said:

 

Lost all respect for Ayatollah Khomeini from this. What a shame. Does anyone know if Sistani holds similar views? Fadlallah?

Salam this is because you can't differ secondary fatwa from general Fatwas that these type of secondary fatwas are just for specific conditions & time not a general fatwa for all conditions & time.

13 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

I genuinely worry for Shi'a communities because right now the focus is on Sunni extremists, at a push someone might make fun of self flagellation but I think far right movements have little knowledge of Shi'a practices. Once they read this, that's it, and they will read it. Whether it's supposedly true or not, sense says that whoever works in the office of the scholars or whatever, they need to remove it from search engines and from books. It makes no difference to Shi'a members in Iran, but in countries in Europe and America or in Australia it is going to put people at risk.

self flagation is now prohibited by majority of Shia Marjas & there is some groups that are trying to replace it with blood donation that best example of it was Sheikh Zakzaky that as a new generation of scholars from Qom successfully replaced Tatbir with blood donation but arrested by support of Wahabist/Salafist  like as mufti Menk from Nigerian tyrants & Shirazi cult that spreads Tatbir never faced any problem by Wahabi/Salafi groups that even supports by British secret services like as MI6 & mostly british newspapers like as independent are putting pictures & movies of Tatbir to keep these type of bad propaganda high in search engines results 

12 hours ago, Ali~J said:

Luckily I didn't post other post similar quotes of Ayatollah Khomeini, if you saw them then you might even insult him or something because they're so strange and mind bending.... The other quotes I saw are quite worrying... 

most of them are just were temporary fatwas not permanent 

11 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

This thread is just grim.

I will therefore kiss my two children good night as they dream about giggling, rose syrup milk and cartoons, as all children should without fear of being hurt. I will then pray that none of our children are ever subjected to such abhorrent acts and then I will sit down and have a stiff cup of decaffeinated coffee.

My peace to you and yours, brothers and sisters.

Back from Syria (Putting the So-Called Jihad al-Nikah into Perspective)(P-01)

3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I was told this was propaganda made up by Wahhabbi groups but it's looking more and more likely he did approve of this. Especially if there were other marjas who voiced similar views as well.

The thighing threads are just another example of subjects that shouldn't be up for debate and should unanimously considered harmful to society and ultimately haram.

I thought the Jafari madhab was the school of logic and reason...

It breaks my heart to see some ok with and try to defend this vile practice.

having a bad ruling is better that doesn't have a ruling that Sunni Madhab specialli wahabi side completely lacks from logic about these issues that leads to allowing Jihad of Nikah & raping one woman by multiple ISIS fighters as a norm between them but they easily erased their traces in Internet & social media by making propaganda & noise around old secondary fatwas that nowadays abandons between Shia community but repeats for caution & avoiding gaps about this matter in Rislas that this fatwa was helpful during era & generation of Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه)  for example , Aunt of my father married in childhood that this fatwa helped her to save from suffering in her childhood ,that this fatwa can helps other girls from raping in childhood that live in tribal areas of Iran & Iraq but it completely abandoned in rural areas & cities .

Giving birth after ISIS rape

Special report: ISIS militants rape Yazidi girls l 15-yr-old victim narrates horrible story

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2013/09/28/Kidnapped-Syrian-women-forced-to-make-sexual-jihad-claims-on-state-TV.htm

jihad al nikah- جهاد النكاح ... فتوى حقيقة او بدعه

Wahhabi Fitwa: Women must breastfeed men to become mahram to them

Adult Suckling in Islam?

Prophet Mohammed : Suckling & Childhood by Dr.... Sayed Ammar Nakshawani 11th Night 1437 A.H

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Mahram_by_Breastfeeding

 A’isha reports: “Once the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) entered my house while a man was with me. He said: “O A’isha! Who is this?” I replied: “My foster-brother” He said: “O A’isha! Be careful in determining who your foster-brother is, for suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period”. (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455)

https://www.seekersguidance.org/answers/hanafi-fiqh/who-is-mahram/

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest B.R.

People on here have been vilifying Imam Khomeini, Sayed Khoei', Sayed Sistani over several pages, and posting Fatwas lay people shouldn't  be dealing with. 

Let us not forget the some people from the 'gay' community literally abusing our scholars on other threads.

When corruption infests a group top to bottom.

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Introduction

Sheikh 'Abd Al-Muhsin Al-'Obikan, an advisor at the Saudi Justice Ministry, recently issued a fatwa allowing the breastfeeding of adults. The fatwa is aimed at enabling an unrelated man and woman to be secluded in the same room, a situation which Islam considers forbidden gender mixing. The rationale behind the fatwa is that breastfeeding creates a bond of kinship between the man and woman, rendering the man her mahram,[1] thus making it acceptable for them to be together in seclusion.

The fatwa created a stir in Saudi Arabia and in the Arab media at large, arousing a wave of criticism from clerics and columnists alike. Clerics claimed that breastfeeding could not create a bond of kinship between a female and an unrelated male over two years of age, and some claimed that the fatwa contradicted the shari'a. Columnists argued that such grotesque fatwas are insulting to women, and also tarnish the Muslims' image. One columnist pointed to a paradox, namely that the fear of gender-mixing is prompting clerics to encourage lewd behaviors like women breastfeeding grown men.

Despite this criticism, Al-'Obikan has stood his ground, and even reiterated his position in greater detail.

It should be noted that this issue first arose in Egypt in May 2007, following a similar fatwa issued by Dr.. 'Izzat 'Atiyya, formerly head of the Hadith Department at Al-Azhar University, which permitted a woman to breastfeed a man with whom she must work in private. This fatwa led to 'Atiyya's dismissal from his post at Al-Azhar.[2]

The following document presents the fatwa issued by Al-'Obikan and several reactions to it.

Al-'Obikan: Adult Breastfeeding Permissible in Two Specific Cases

In a May 21, 2010 interview for the Al-Arabiya website, Al-'Obikan said it is permissible for a woman to breastfeed a man who is not a family member: "If a family [employs] an outsider who visits the home frequently, and [this man] has no relatives besides this family 

https://www.memri.org/reports/controversy-Saudi-arabia-over-fatwa-permitting-breastfeeding-adults

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam these are secondary Fatwas in Shia fiqh that needs pre requisition & applies for specific time & condition but would be available for same condition in future use but all of them are better than Sunni Fatwas that makes adult men as Mahram of adult women by three times breast feeding of mature strange men by a woman that breastfeeds her child 

Salam this is because you can't differ secondary fatwa from general Fatwas that these type of secondary fatwas are just for specific conditions & time not a general fatwa for all conditions & time.

self flagation is now prohibited by majority of Shia Marjas & there is some groups that are trying to replace it with blood donation that best example of it was Sheikh Zakzaky that as a new generation of scholars from Qom successfully replaced Tatbir with blood donation but arrested by support of Wahabist/Salafist  like as mufti Menk from Nigerian tyrants & Shirazi cult that spreads Tatbir never faced any problem by Wahabi/Salafi groups that even supports by British secret services like as MI6 & mostly british newspapers like as independent are putting pictures & movies of Tatbir to keep these type of bad propaganda high in search engines results 

most of them are just were temporary fatwas not permanent 

Back from Syria (Putting the So-Called Jihad al-Nikah into Perspective)(P-01)

having a bad ruling is better that doesn't have a ruling that Sunni Madhab specialli wahabi side completely lacks from logic about these issues that leads to allowing Jihad of Nikah & raping one woman by multiple ISIS fighters as a norm between them but they easily erased their traces in Internet & social media by making propaganda & noise around old secondary fatwas that nowadays abandons between Shia community but repeats for caution & avoiding gaps about this matter in Rislas that this fatwa was helpful during era & generation of Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه)  for example , Aunt of my father married in childhood that this fatwa helped her to save from suffering in her childhood ,that this fatwa can helps other girls from raping in childhood that live in tribal areas of Iran & Iraq but it completely abandoned in rural areas & cities .

Giving birth after ISIS rape

Special report: ISIS militants rape Yazidi girls l 15-yr-old victim narrates horrible story

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2013/09/28/Kidnapped-Syrian-women-forced-to-make-sexual-jihad-claims-on-state-TV.htm

jihad al nikah- جهاد النكاح ... فتوى حقيقة او بدعه

Wahhabi Fitwa: Women must breastfeed men to become mahram to them

Adult Suckling in Islam?

Prophet Mohammed : Suckling & Childhood by Dr..... Sayed Ammar Nakshawani 11th Night 1437 A.H

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Mahram_by_Breastfeeding

 A’isha reports: “Once the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) entered my house while a man was with me. He said: “O A’isha! Who is this?” I replied: “My foster-brother” He said: “O A’isha! Be careful in determining who your foster-brother is, for suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period”. (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455)

https://www.seekersguidance.org/answers/hanafi-fiqh/who-is-mahram/

So thighing for sexual gratification was okay at a certain point in time or will be in a certain point in the future? 

Come on, we shouldn't be having this conversation. I can tell you're very knowledgeable masha'Allah, but this just sounds really stupid.

For the record the breast milk thing is stupid too, but nobody sane can really compare it to this fatwa. 

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3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Seriously? Honestly, when will you ever stop with your oh-so- logical conspiracy theories? 

It’s a convenient exit strategy.

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7 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I was told this was propaganda made up by Wahhabbi groups but it's looking more and more likely he did approve of this. Especially if there were other marjas who voiced similar views as well.

The thighing threads are just another example of subjects that shouldn't be up for debate and should unanimously considered harmful to society and ultimately haram.

I thought the Jafari madhab was the school of logic and reason...

It breaks my heart to see some ok with and try to defend this vile practice.

That would be very stupid for them because they have very similar fatwas. 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Introduction

Sheikh 'Abd Al-Muhsin Al-'Obikan, an advisor at the Saudi Justice Ministry, recently issued a fatwa allowing the breastfeeding of adults. The fatwa is aimed at enabling an unrelated man and woman to be secluded in the same room, a situation which Islam considers forbidden gender mixing. The rationale behind the fatwa is that breastfeeding creates a bond of kinship between the man and woman, rendering the man her mahram,[1] thus making it acceptable for them to be together in seclusion.

The fatwa created a stir in Saudi Arabia and in the Arab media at large, arousing a wave of criticism from clerics and columnists alike. Clerics claimed that breastfeeding could not create a bond of kinship between a female and an unrelated male over two years of age, and some claimed that the fatwa contradicted the shari'a. Columnists argued that such grotesque fatwas are insulting to women, and also tarnish the Muslims' image. One columnist pointed to a paradox, namely that the fear of gender-mixing is prompting clerics to encourage lewd behaviors like women breastfeeding grown men.

Despite this criticism, Al-'Obikan has stood his ground, and even reiterated his position in greater detail.

It should be noted that this issue first arose in Egypt in May 2007, following a similar fatwa issued by Dr... 'Izzat 'Atiyya, formerly head of the Hadith Department at Al-Azhar University, which permitted a woman to breastfeed a man with whom she must work in private. This fatwa led to 'Atiyya's dismissal from his post at Al-Azhar.[2]

The following document presents the fatwa issued by Al-'Obikan and several reactions to it.

Al-'Obikan: Adult Breastfeeding Permissible in Two Specific Cases

In a May 21, 2010 interview for the Al-Arabiya website, Al-'Obikan said it is permissible for a woman to breastfeed a man who is not a family member: "If a family [employs] an outsider who visits the home frequently, and [this man] has no relatives besides this family 

https://www.memri.org/reports/controversy-Saudi-arabia-over-fatwa-permitting-breastfeeding-adults

 

20190717_141940.jpg

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