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In the Name of God بسم الله
Kaya

Emigrating to Iran

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5 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Most likely you will be living in poverty which will distract you from religion. 

According to narrations the sustenance of a man seeks him more intensely than his death. As long as the brother is striving to earn a livelihood for his family the rizq that is destined for him will reach him. 

"And whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah, He will make for him an outlet, and give him sustenance from whence he thinks not” (65:2-3) 

Brother I have seen people with same degrees thriving and getting rich in Pakistan and others living in the west and just making ends meet. Of course, the reverse is also true. My point is location doesn't affect rizq because Ar-Razzaq is free from these constraints. 

14 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

A man needs to be where he can work and support his family. If u don’t speak the language and have connections it will be extremely difficult to support yourself and your family

Iran isn't exactly stongeage. He has employment opportunities there. Maybe because you live in the west so this appears infeasible to you but where I live it's a common practice for men to move to other countries with a different language and culture in search of work. 

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

No. I wouldnt recommend it. A man needs to be where he can work and support his family. If u don’t speak the language and have connections it will be extremely difficult to support yourself and your family. Most likely you will be living in poverty which will distract you from religion. 

Salam brother, I definitely think that there is an element of truth to what you are saying. And this has been on my mind as well. 

I feel like the ideal situation is for a person to work in domain he is good at (related to his education, skills, and experience) while he is in a Muslim country.

However, things become more complicated if one has to choose between those two. Like for example, what if a person can live in a Muslim country but has to sacrifice his career and work in a lower-end job? Or the opposite, live in a country devoid of faith but can have a good career in his field? 

From Ayatollah Sistani (may God prolong his life):

Advice to the Believing Youth - "Try to learn a trade and acquire a specialty, and exhaust yourself in that pursuit. There are many blessings in this; it occupies a portion of your free time, you can support yourself and your family, benefit society, do good deeds using the money you earn, sharpen your mind, broaden your experience, and your wealth becomes more blessed. That is because the harder wealth is earned, the more blessed and pleasant it is. Furthermore, God, the Exalted and Immaculate, loves the hardworking person who exhausts himself with work and trade, and dislikes the idle person who is dependent on others and spends his time in play and diversion. Do not waste your youth without learning a trade or speciality. God, the Glorified, has put in youth bodily and spiritual energies so that a person can acquire skills he can use for the rest of his life. Do not waste it in play and negligence." https://www.Sistani.org/english/archive/25240/

So he gives importance to learning a trade/speciality. What if you cannot practice that speciality as well as before when you move to a new country? Because, for example, it's easier to get a job as a janitor without speaking the language too well, compared to getting a job as a lawyer without speaking the language too well. So you might have to accept lower-end jobs during the transition period. 

That being said, I think that the other side of the argument is also valid to some degree. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) provides financially for those who are hardworking, regardless of how hard the conditions might seem. 

4 hours ago, starlight said:

"And whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah, He will make for him an outlet, and give him sustenance from whence he thinks not” (65:2-3) 

I think the decision should be made on an individual basis based on: how much would your religion improve if you move, how much would your career suffer, would you be able to fully support your family, would you be able to benefit the shi'a community as much, would you be able to benefit society as much, etc. 

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2 hours ago, Kaya said:

"Try to learn a trade and acquire a specialty, and exhaust yourself in that pursuit. There are many blessings in this; it occupies a portion of your free time, you can support yourself and your family, benefit society, do good deeds using the money you earn, sharpen your mind, broaden your experience, and your wealth becomes more blessed. That is because the harder wealth is earned, t

Salam his wise statement is about learning useful skills for helping Shia community in every place specially Shia countries , I recommend you to travel for a short time to Iran to see everything by yourself then you can decide about your emigration .

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam his wise statement is about learning useful skills for helping Shia community in every place specially Shia countries , I recommend you to travel for a short time to Iran to see everything by yourself then you can decide about your emigration .

Salam, yes you are right, that is what the statement is saying. And God-willing I will plan to Iran sometime in the future to see how it is.

After all the advice from the brothers (and sisters), what I am currently leaning towards is staying in my current country for several more years while starting to learn basic Farsi slowly. From what I understand Farsi has some words in common with Turkish so hopefully I'll have an easier time learning it. After learning basic Farsi, I can make several short visits. And if I can secure a job then everything will be set. With patience it will be good inshallah

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I preface this by saying I am not anti-Iran in any way. I love the country for what they are to the Shia faith, and intend on studying there in the future. In all honestly, they are my favorite country at the moment. AND, keep in mind, this treatment may be unique to Iraqis.

 

Not many people are discussing the cons. From what I've heard mainly from my mother who's entire family fled to Iran because of saddam (lived there for about 10 years), and still has I believe one family living there, it is not very hospitable for foreigners. For starters, I was born in Qom, yet they refused to acknowledge my existence with any paperwork whatsoever. I was an alien until the UN moved us to America when I was four. My current records say I was born in Iraq, which is just Taqqiya from my dad. I never set foot in Iraq until I was 11. You aren't allowed to own property as a foreigner (even after living there for decades as in my relative's case). You can't attend higher education unless you go through extreme hurdles (which take years and possibly marriage to an Iranian), and even then, you can't attend all their universities, the best ones are for Iranians only. You can't even WORK, unless you don't mind trade/labor jobs, and EVEN THEN that is a privilege. Of course they will make exceptions, but they are rare, and only for special individuals. But fortunately for us, they are very good about Islamic education. They will happily pay you to attend Howza, and even set you up with accommodation. 

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48 minutes ago, Guest face said:

, yet they refused to acknowledge my existence with any paperwork whatsoever.

Salam , at that years because of Iran-Iraq war there was some problems between Iranians & Iraqis but in recent years it decreases significantly 

50 minutes ago, Guest face said:

You aren't allowed to own property as a foreigner (even after living there for decades as in my relative's case).

it' very rational that you can't sell your land to other people from other countries even now UAE doesn't allow Iranian merchants  own a property more than 49% & rest of 51% must belongs to an Emirate resident 

52 minutes ago, Guest face said:

You can't attend higher education unless you go through extreme hurdles (which take years and possibly marriage to an Iranian), and even then, you can't attend all their universities, the best ones are for Iranians only. You can't even WORK, unless you don't mind trade/labor jobs, and EVEN THEN that is a privilege.

situation completely changed now and there is many people in all universities from any foreign country or neighbor countries like as Iraq & Afghanistan in best universities & in work they hire Iranians to work for them without exception or privilege. 

 

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14 hours ago, starlight said:

According to narrations the sustenance of a man seeks him more intensely than his death. As long as the brother is striving to earn a livelihood for his family the rizq that is destined for him will reach him. 

"And whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah, He will make for him an outlet, and give him sustenance from whence he thinks not” (65:2-3) 

Brother I have seen people with same degrees thriving and getting rich in Pakistan and others living in the west and just making ends meet. Of course, the reverse is also true. My point is location doesn't affect rizq because Ar-Razzaq is free from these constraints. 

Iran isn't exactly stongeage. He has employment opportunities there. Maybe because you live in the west so this appears infeasible to you but where I live it's a common practice for men to move to other countries with a different language and culture in search of work. 

It's not Stonehenge, it is probably a wonderful place to live and work for those who know the language and understand the system. 

I have been alive long enough, and I have also traveled to other countries outside the 'West'. Each country, in addition to having their own language, has their own system of government and commerce. These 'official' systems tell you almost nothing about how the 'unofficial' systems work in these countries. It is the 'unofficial' systems that will determine whether someone is able to earn a living in a halal way and a comfortable way. Of course, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) determines this and he gives us the Rizq. He(s.w.a) also expects us to use our aql, our reason and intelligence in order to work through the systems that He(s.w.a) has created. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would not ask us to do something that is outside our ability. Also, there is the Rizq  that has been assigned to us by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This will reach us regardless of where we are or what we do. This is enough to maintain life. At the same time, we all aspire to live beyond this and live a life that is comfortable and dignified, not extravagant (some people aspire to live extravagently, but I am talking about a mumin/a here). This is the discretionary part of Rizq, it may reach a person it may not. This Rizq does not reach the vast majority of Muslims in the world today(the discretionary part, not the required part) because of government and other forms of corruption. I think most will agree with this statement. In order to get to this goal, you must work hard and use the gifts that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given you to the maximum and work within the system that you are in. This is easier to do in some places, almost impossible in others. It is very difficult to use your gifts that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given you and work within a system that  you don't understand. That is my point. Understanding is understanding the unofficial system, not the official one. Anyone can pick up a law book or a manual of government procedures and learn the official system. But this is not reality, most of the time. 

I have never been to Iran, but I have been to other countries, including the Arabic countries. In the Arabic countries, most people are poor, and the ones who are not poor are connected with the ruling families, who run the government. There are some exceptions to this, of course, but the vast majority of people fall into either one of these two categories, the connected and wealthy, and the unconnected and poor. If you are not connected to those ruling families either through blood or through longstanding family and business connections, your chances of living a comfortable and dignified life are almost nil. This is even if you grew up there, know the language and understand the 'system'. This is why most young people who are not connected to those families end up doing almost anything to leave those countries and go to the 'West' or go somewhere where they have a better chance of living a dignified life and earning your money through halal means. I don't blame them for that. It is the 'unofficial' part of this migration that is currently partially driving the crisis in the West connected to Brexit, Trump, etc, but that is another subject. I, myself, have had many opportunities to live and work in certain Arab countries. I didn't take those opportunities. To me, knowing what I know, it is too risky, especially since I have a family to support. If it was just me, I might think differently about this issue. 

I don't know if in Iran, it is different from the Arabic countries. I have heard different points of view on this. I know that that the top leadership, such as Sayyid Khameni(ha) are not involved in this 'unofficial' system of ruling elites, similar to what exists in the Arabic countries, and I think that is why Iran is different. But at the same time, the next level down from this, the top ministers, judges, parliment, etc, I don't know about. Like I said, I have heard multiple different accounts of this. At the same time, I have enough information to know that I myself, would not want to take the chance of getting there, possibly moving my whole family there, and then finding out that this is not a place where I can survive beyond the very most basic, minimal level, I.e. poverty. If you are used to being poor, it is not a big deal, but if you are used to being middle class or above, becoming poor in a country that is not your own can be very distracting and devastating because you are not used to living this way. That is what can distract you from your religion. This kind of risky move can cause some to leave the religion entirely. I have seen this happen to some reverts, unfortunately. There is a saying in English 'Fools rush in where angels fear to tread'. I think this saying is applicable in this case. It doesn't mean that what you are doing is necessarily wrong or bad, but it is extremely risky and most of the time unnecessary. 

So my point is that if you are in a place where you are living a comfortable, dignified life then you should stay there unless it is the place itself that is pulling you away from your religion and it is not possible to avoid being pulled away as a result of being in the place. It is not recommended to leave that place and go from a comfortable, dignified situation to a poverty situation. Poverty is a test, not a value in Islam. I am not saying that if the brother left and went to Iran, 100% he would become poor, but there is a high enough chance that I myself, wouldn't take the risk. So I give advice based on what I would do and the knowledge I have, which of course is not that much.

Again, please don't misinterpret this response. Those who know me, because I have been on this site more than 10 years, know that I have nothing but love and respect for my brothers and sisters in the Arabic countries and in Iran. As far as the governments in the Arabic countries, they don't represent the people and are corrupt to the core. Most of the Arabs, and especially the followers of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) are the victims of their government(s) and not it's constituents. As for the government in Iran, I believe that the top levels are not corrupt and the levels down from that I don't have enough information to know whether they are corrupt or not. I am not going to make a statement regarding that.  I would love to go to Iran someday, at least to make Ziyarat to Imam Reda((عليه السلام)). I haven't had the opportunity yet. InshahAllah soon. 

Salam. 

 

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I can assure anyone who might be thinking of moving to Iran and who is not a native that although it is not as easy as going to the grocery store to buy some milk, it is still very much possible.

Just like how many of our parents who fled from war came to the west and managed, so can people go from the west to the east and manage. Rest assured they (people who came to the west 30 years ago) had a much harder time and they still managed.

Now it is much easier, especially when you have all the information you could ask for in your pocket, its extremely easy to research things ahead of time and to translate in order to get around. Much easier than what it used to be.

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1 hour ago, Diaz said:

@Kaya So brother, what’s your decision? Are you planning to move to Iran? 

Yes brother, God-willing I will move to Iran. But I feel like the best option for me is to be patient and not rush into moving there instantly.

If I move there with experience in IT career and basic knowledge of the Farsi language, I won't be a burden on anyone and can live a comfortable life.

So I think the best option for me is to work in Canada for a few years and start learning Farsi in the meantime.

As to aiming to start a family before/after moving to Iran, I haven't decided yet.

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12 hours ago, Kaya said:

Yes brother, God-willing I will move to Iran. But I feel like the best option for me is to be patient and not rush into moving there instantly.

If I move there with experience in IT career and basic knowledge of the Farsi language, I won't be a burden on anyone and can live a comfortable life.

So I think the best option for me is to work in Canada for a few years and start learning Farsi in the meantime.

As to aiming to start a family before/after moving to Iran, I haven't decided yet.

All the best. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 5:43 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

it' very rational that you can't sell your land to other people from other countries even now UAE doesn't allow Iranian merchants  own a property more than 49% & rest of 51% must belongs to an Emirate resident 

They've been living there for nearly 40 years.

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1 hour ago, Guest face said:

They've been living there for nearly 40 years.

Sorry, bad at math. It's 30 years. 

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