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In the Name of God بسم الله

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1 hour ago, rkazmi33 said:

I do believe that compatibility is important. Some people have the ability to bring out the worst in you while others can bring out the best in you. I know that there are two qualities which I cannot stand in people: Promiscuity and cruelty and these 2 qualities are often found together. I have been bullied so much by such people, I think feelings are mutual, they also hate people like me. My ex husband was extremely cruel and promiscuous. After my divorce, I knew I shouldn't marry someone with those 2 qualities. But the guys my family has been suggesting are all like my ex husband. I guess only gay men are modest and kind. Majority of men are cruel and flirt. I think if you get married to someone you are compatible with, you can have a good marriage at least for few years. If you get married to someone you are not compatible with, then marriage can fail just after couple of months of living together. 

Thats why those traditional “my mom knows someone and his mom knows my mom” don’t work in our modern age. You have to know someone well before you get married. Someone you will spend your life with, you’re supposed to take your time looking at all aspects whether you or him.

regarding “only gay men are kind and modest”, no its only because you feel safe with them. Because they will gossip at what a girl is wearing and hear the stories you want to hear. 

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7 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

In my opinion, you are sort of spitting hairs. Sex isn't everything nor is it promised in a relationship. For those that have it, it can be a luxury however it should be described and defined as a privilege. But what is far more important in my eyes is the trust in each other and bonding that leads to attraction and the physical aspects of love and that is not a luxury. That's effective communication, honesty and hard work in one package. 

Trust and bonding doesn’t always lead to attraction. That’s what mummies and aunties tell you when they are trying to negotiate an arranged marriage. Attraction isn’t so simplistic unfortunately. 

Love and lust are two completely different things though - albeit they can exist for the same individual. Lust can turn into love (if you  meet the right person), but platonic love can never turn into lust. This is why I can not understand how two cousins who have been raised together as siblings can decide to marry each once they are of marital age. How does one make the mental switch from ‘bhaiya’ (brother), to ‘saiya’ (lover). I love my cousins on a platonic level and it would have been impossible for me to even contemplate marrying any of them because my love for them was pure. 

Edited by Aflower

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On 7/14/2019 at 4:23 AM, Aflower said:

Trust and bonding doesn’t always lead to attraction. That’s what mummies and aunties tell you when they are trying to negotiate an arranged marriage. Attraction isn’t so simplistic unfortunately. 

No, it's not. I'm speaking from my personal experience, the aunties and mommies will tell you this,yes but usually it's perverted with Bollywood expectations or culture, same as it is here with Hollywood. That is what love is a series of chemical reactions in our brains that lead to attraction and an increase of risky decision making (in my case)

There's nothing glorious or romantic about it. No climatic meetings, no picture perfect relationships  without arguments, no guarantee of children, sex, stable home life or even the relationship lasting twelve months. All you have really is trust and respect . Do you trust or respect this person enough to say "I do"?

An arranged marriage doesn't allow you to make these crucial decisions.

On 7/14/2019 at 4:23 AM, Aflower said:

How does one make the mental switch from ‘bhaiya’ (brother), to ‘saiya’ (lover). I love my cousins on a platonic level and it would have been impossible for me to even contemplate marrying any of them because my love for them was pure. 

Anything is possible with enough hormones, by the way, I'm not talking about an arrangement or cousins (Which admittedly, I find the idea of marrying first cousins revolting. Second or third cousins is okay.)

I'm talking about making a leap between "friends" to "lovers" over a course of  2.5 to three years. It was platonic and  supportive at first before  we decided we wanted more than that. It was a mutual decision.  Eventually  I had plans to marry her. Of course it never worked out because of reasons outside my control. Unbeknownst to myself, I drew the short straw in that relationship  long before I ever showed up in the "big picture".

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On 7/19/2019 at 4:43 PM, rkazmi33 said:

In the first few sentences, he explains love very well. But what about men who have several marriages or mutah relationships? It seems like you cannot fall in love after having a couple of relationships. 

Thank you for the very enlightening clip. It said what I had been thinking of saying from the start of this thread but held back because I was afraid of derailing the thread. The only love worth investing in yourself in is love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Even if you love your spouse let it be for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or there is always the chance that one would be left feeling dissatisfied or heart broken. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 3:58 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I'm not special, I'm just one of seven billion people and  one of 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. Without me, Islam would continue to exist and it's truth would never diminish and continue to attract people. I don't delude myself into thinking I am privileged to follow Islam. Who knows what will happen to me tomorrow?

alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah. 

On 7/20/2019 at 2:35 AM, starlight said:

but held back because I was afraid of derailing the thread. The only love worth investing in yourself in is love of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) love is the encompassment of all love. The bee & the flower & the butterfly.

 

On 7/20/2019 at 2:35 AM, starlight said:

there is always the chance that one would be left feeling dissatisfied or heart broken.

Truly, as @Gaius I. Caesar said it, tomorrow is not guaranteed. You might marry today & bury tomorrow. & hearts are @ rest through Allah((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'s remembrance.

On 7/19/2019 at 11:43 PM, rkazmi33 said:

But what about men who have several marriages or mutah relationships? It seems like you cannot fall in love after having a couple of relationships

 Is it not Allah((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'s mercy upon divorced widowed women without opening a can of worms? 

 

On 7/14/2019 at 5:22 AM, rkazmi33 said:

I do believe that compatibility is important. Some people have the ability to bring out the worst in you while others can bring out the best in you

Sorry about the cruelty you went through, now would you think it was good for you what you went through? Is there beauty in it, Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) love that you see or...

& compatibility is like the honey of the bees  not the poison of snakes that brings the best out of us as the evolution of a butterfly, a fusion, transformation. 

Love is something else, it is not red hearts or red roses or sexual intimacy or being in authority or a certain being with certain qualities & characteristics, just be & you'll be amazed, love is Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...

Edited by Mzwakhe
I get lost easily & write I when there's no intention to exult this I. Ego is a tough battle too

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On 7/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Instead of this being an article or thread written for advice, I thought it’d be a good idea to talk about love. Your expectations of love, your experiences, and if married, what you’ve done for your spouse to put him or her first. 

In my understanding, love is still a taboo that exists within society and its cultural (often negative) view of love masking as Islamic. That falling in love or pursuing someone you have romantic feelings for is somehow against Islamic teachings, and that romance and love and passion are unreal, or is something that only exists in movies. In my opinion, while many Muslims may be happy in their marriages, they don’t know how to have strong emotional, romantic connection with their spouses in the same way that Non-Muslims have, or like born-Muslims who have been raised in Western countries, because many don’t see its value or feel awkward. Marriage is seen primarily as a duty to many—and the sense of duty, in my opinion, kills connection. Viewing marriage and marital satisfaction as a duty would make one see halal outlets (like marriage) as a burden and not the relief that Allah has intended it to be.

Many Muslims stay married because of the sense of duty, and not because of deep friendship, strong feelings of romantic attachment. It doesn’t help that culture encourages arranged marriages as the “purer” and more preferred method of marriage, where detachment from the opposite sex is heavily enforced. This notion is ridiculous to us American, Canadian, Australian, or British Muslims, who connect with others naturally, male or female, for the sake of connection and not derived from any bad intent, as it is often assumed by others who have not been brought up this way, that have been brought up segregated. 

What’s inspired me to write this was an article and also watching Ali’s Wedding, where duty and heart are at odds. As a result, here’s a thread in which I would encourage others to talk about love. In talking about love—maybe through a letter to your future spouse, or sharing past experiences with love, or just offering one’s thoughts on friendship, love, and passionate romance, to name a few—maybe we can open up dialogue and cultivate the non-judgmental attitude that this forum so desperately needs and hopefully, become more comfortable with expression once you are married. 

There ought to be an initial compatibility between the partners intending to get married.  The eastern culture of the families/ guardians intervening and deciding matters were “supposed” to be or were “meant” to be a kind of protection for the proposed partners.  The guardians, being more familiar with different human psyches over years of dealings and overall experience, would be able to catch “red-flags” and would be able to dispassionately and objectively decide the compatibility or incompatibility between two individuals.   This decision ought to be made dispassionately and as objectively as possible, not out of feelings or emotions which can change like the weather.  Although this was meant to be the function of the guardian it is now disappointingly proving to be otherwise; that is, these guardians in question are In most cases not making wise decisions and are basing their decisions on mundane criteria (such as wealth, race and age etc...).

What should be done?

first and foremost, do not base your decision of marriage on your emotions because in most cases they blind one’s rational faculties, especially if one’s emotions are very strong (in these case they tend to be very strong especially among younger people who first “fall in love”).  

Do an anger test (by asking a friend to openly pick minor faults in him) .  Try to find how picky the man is with regards to your cooking by cooking something that tastes particularly bad (see if he complains - how much does he complain?).  See if he or she has bad habits of backbiting  or good habits of praising others (seeing the other person’s good traits).     Find out how well he or she treat his or her parents?  Finally find out how easily he/ she forgives.  

Guardians ought to do such tests.  So choose a wise guardian.

good luck to all of you looking for the special partner.  May God make it easy for you all and keep us all in your prayers if you found this helpful.

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5 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

Is it not Allah((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'s mercy upon divorced widowed women without opening a can of worms

That's not true by the way, when my mom seperated, a huge can of worms opened up, especially when dad started lying. Me and my brother were only who supported her and knew the truth.

It tainted how I looked at my family, their reactions told me everything I needed to know about them.

I didn't cut ties but I also didn't feel the need to talk them either. Just checking on Facebook was enough info for me and was "keeping in touch" for me.

Things got a little better when I came  to visit them last time but my father made another lie saying he was paying for school when I got a scholarship instead. The look on their faces were amazing, they were shocked. I don't what exactly he said to them, afterwards my cousin gave me an idea what was going on and they had a family meeting about what I said and we reconciled. Some of the things he told me about my father were quite revealing. I'm still shocked he would feel a need to lie about supporting my education.

The point I'm trying to make is just you are able to bear children, does not protect you from drama and controversy. It didn't for Mom.

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6 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

Truly, as @Gaius I. Caesar said it, tomorrow is not guaranteed. You might marry today & bury tomorrow. & hearts are @ rest through Allah((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'s remembrance.

I didn't say that, I said "Who knows what will happen to me tomorrow."  Whereas Islam will continue to exist without me, the fact that I am and will remain Muslim is not guaranteed tomorrow. 

Therefore, I don't feel special or privileged as a Muslim as Timeless suggested we are. Remember Iblis was a devout believer before  Adam (عليه السلام) was created. Iblis refused to bow to Adam out of pride in his faith.

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On 7/22/2019 at 7:09 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

That's not true by the way, when my mom seperated, a huge can of worms opened up, especially when dad started lying.

I meant for those 'guys' who have multiple partners legally as a form of love by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) through them to be there for the divorced & widowed & the female teachers in madrassa who aren't given a second look due to them being wheelchaired. They too are loved by their Creator(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

On 7/22/2019 at 7:19 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I didn't say that

On 7/22/2019 at 1:00 PM, Mzwakhe said:

 

On 7/19/2019 at 8:58 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

images_(1).jpeg.72b3d347d38b9c9b9fec22c1f283d1dd.jpeg

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16 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

the female teachers in madrassa who aren't given a second look due to them being wheelchaired. They too are loved by their Creator(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

That's a shame, I know the experience of being seen as a disability rather than a person, being in a wheelchair myself. However, it goes to show that love is not a luxury. For some, it is a necessity and duty.

P.S. It's not "wheelchaired" but being in a wheelchair.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:35 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

makes feel me I'm being blamed for my disability when it was out of my control.

But why are you viewing it like that? Why would you think Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took something from you? I think the sense would be Him(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) taking away say a bad habit & in so doing, Blesses you.

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3 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

But why are you viewing it like that? Why would you think Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took something from you?

Because that's how people try to be condescending towards me, they say it to appear more intelligent and to "console" me for my condition.

Problem is, I am aware of it and don't feel like I "lost" anything. I don't appreciate them trying to be fake or giving me fake advice based on a huge assumption about me and especially dislike it when they bring religion into it and make another huge assumption about my relationship with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

 

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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13 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Because that's how people try to be condescending towards me, they say it to appear more intelligent and to "console" me for my condition.

am not so sure whether we'll be on the same wavelength with this. it is difficult to get/understand your view. Your concern is how others 'view' you? what appearance of what intelligence are you on about? let's go back to the point where you disagreed...

On 7/24/2019 at 1:44 AM, Mzwakhe said:

51102709_138282987201413_7498524479313804429_n.thumb.jpg.7394374f643d36acdee4d56e07b890bc.jpg

my understanding would be that we feel blessed when we receive & we neglect blessings in a form of removal(taking away) of certain aspects about us that are destructive for the self. Examples are many, taking away a habit of lying or backbiting or talking too much or talking about things without proper authority to do so or proper understanding. Another eg  of this blessing would be the taking away of a woman whom you wanted to marry whilst she's a devil & you don't know that. Oh, try thinking of a load removal type of taking away. Last night I was thinking about you crying & wondering if I were you, would my family do what they do & claiming to be me? Anyways, in my head I don't see me better than you, maybe I think you have it easier, more blessed. I don't know! Please pass salam to @apofomysback

Sorry for the inconvenience @Islandsandmirrors, but love is like that, it accommodates off topic

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On 7/25/2019 at 1:25 AM, Mzwakhe said:

Your concern is how others 'view' you? what appearance of what intelligence are you on about? let's go back to the point where you disagreed...

No, I'm saying religious people use such language and sayings to talk down to me in a belittling manner and make me feel less of a person, while they puff themselves with pride and portray themselves as some kind of heroic savior who will guide or rescue me.

They do it to make themselves sound more intelligent and sympathetic and I'll be sitting there thinking "Are you done yet?" 

It's hurtful and obnoxious, it's a horrible feeling, it would be hard to explain what it is like but I have raised my voice at a preacher who tried that nonsense with me.

 I remember saying to him that I came to worship Allah , not listen him tell the audience that I was "weak, needy and crying out for help"  That I was blessed to be disabled. No, I am blessed with the tenacity and fortitude to endure my disability. I have a greater strength than most. Where others would have given up hope, I carried on to where I am now. 

Yes, there are things I have easier but  things like marriage, social interaction, assumptions, basic daily needs and physical movement is very difficult. I'm usually a very lonely person but that's slowly changing, I have a circle of friends now and I'm grateful for them.

I don't know if you will understand but I hope I made myself clear to you. I will send your regards and salams to Apofomysback, insha'Allah.

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On 7/25/2019 at 11:20 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Yes, there are things I have easier but  things like marriage, social interaction, assumptions, basic daily needs and physical movement is very difficult. I'm usually a very lonely person but that's slowly changing, I have a circle of friends now and I'm grateful for them.

I don't know if you will understand but I hope I made myself clear to you. I will send your regards and salams to Apofomysback, insha'Allah.

alhamdulillah, thank you

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On 7/25/2019 at 11:20 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

They do it to make themselves sound more intelligent and sympathetic 

How do you know their intentions if may ask?

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43 minutes ago, Mzwakhe said:

How do you know their intentions if may ask?

Body language,  affected tone of voice and how they phrase their words. They usually make a big show of themselves, while pretending to care.  Of course, I see through them.

There was one person in my high school, who always talked in a weird tone of voice as if I was mentally  handicapped and called me "buddy".  I remember trying to avoid him because it made me uncomfortable. But I let it slide when I realized there was no avoiding him. I tried speaking to him like a normal adult, but he never got the hint.

In hindsight, I was way too submissive  back then. I should have popped him in mouth when I had the chance.

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40 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

way too submissive  back then

There are places and time for unleashing... :grin:

am still submissive to this day looking forward to knocking teeth out of satan(la). 

We've grown now & learned that 'he is not strong who knock people down' 

42 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Of course, I see through them

Were they all the same though?

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6 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

We've grown now & learned that 'he is not strong who knock people down

True, but I think this case would have been appropriate.

6 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

Were they all the same though?

Yes, they were. Again, it's a very subtle thing that I am acutely aware of. They know better too.

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:07 AM, Mzwakhe said:

How do you know their intentions if may ask?

 

On 7/27/2019 at 12:08 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

They usually make

 

On 7/27/2019 at 7:17 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Yes, they were. They know better too.

salam alykum wrwb my brother. am sorry I didn't notice that you are referring to them, their posture, their voice tone, their 'deeds'. What am asking is about you, how did you know that a certain action is inspired by a certain intention? For one of the signs of being jinn possessed would be a change in voice tone.

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On 7/29/2019 at 11:51 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

they think

What about what you think?

On 7/29/2019 at 11:51 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Not every voice change is jinn inspired

True. 

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