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Diaz

Is art haram in Islam?

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In Shia, is art haram? Like, I thought drawing is a sin, tho I think it’s only in Sunni sect. I asked a question in al Islam org and they said nope, art is not haram. 

What at is your thought?

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It's a matter of debate even among scholars of the 'Ahlul Sunnah', although the scholars who shout the loudest are of the opinion that art, drawings of animated beings, photos (other than for official documents) and toys with eyes or human features are all prohibited. 99.9% of the followers of the Ahlul Sunnah scholars will listen to whoever shouts the loudest.

Other scholars have have said only statues are prohibited due to association with polytheism. Others say statues should have the head cut off to make it look like a tree. Other scholars say photos and other moving images are fine but creating an image from the imagination is haram because you are in essence creating something, not merely capturing the image of something Allah has created.

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8 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

It's a matter of debate even among scholars of the 'Ahlul Sunnah', although the scholars who shout the loudest are of the opinion that art, drawings of animated beings, photos (other than for official documents) and toys with eyes or human features are all prohibited. 99.9% of the followers of the Ahlul Sunnah scholars will listen to whoever shouts the loudest.

Other scholars have have said only statues are prohibited due to association with polytheism. Others say statues should have the head cut off to make it look like a tree. Other scholars say photos and other moving images are fine but creating an image from the imagination is haram because you are in essence creating something, not merely capturing the image of something Allah has created.

So the answer is yes or no?

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8 minutes ago, Diaz said:

So the answer is yes or no?

Based on scripture, logic and reasoning, the sunnah and what information you already have from Islam.org, I would say no. I think it is just better to be careful not to allow art, music and other distractions something to become consumed by in terms of time spent upon, thoughts spent upon and money spent upon.

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What is understood to be "Islamic" Art is continuous, gemoteric patterns or floral designs, devoid of animate depictions. Although many artists would deliberately include an imperfection or asymmetry so as to illustrate our infallibility and imperfection.

However some of the earliest preserved and documented Islamic art comes from the Umayyad era, where they got into contact with Byzantine art. It was not uncommon to see depictions of people and animals for instance.

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8 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

It's a matter of debate even among scholars of the 'Ahlul Sunnah', although the scholars who shout the loudest are of the opinion that art, drawings of animated beings, photos (other than for official documents) and toys with eyes or human features are all prohibited. 99.9% of the followers of the Ahlul Sunnah scholars will listen to whoever shouts the loudest.

Other scholars have have said only statues are prohibited due to association with polytheism. Others say statues should have the head cut off to make it look like a tree. Other scholars say photos and other moving images are fine but creating an image from the imagination is haram because you are in essence creating something, not merely capturing the image of something Allah has created.

Reminds me years ago wheb I saw on IslamQA or similar site, where the questioner asked if it was permissable to give their child a doll. To which the reply was, it was permissable  so long as the head is removed.

Seriously, what child would want to play with a headless doll? Secondly, do we really want to instill this behaviour in young Muslim children :rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, Diaz said:

In Shia, is art haram? Like, I thought drawing is a sin, tho I think it’s only in Sunni sect. I asked a question in al Islam org and they said nope, art is not haram. 

What at is your thought?

According to teachings of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) only art that depicts indecency(like nude drawings, sex scenes, people drinking alcohol, etc) or Art that is disrespectful toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or the Prophets of Allah((عليه السلام)) or Imams((عليه السلام)) is haram. Also art that promotes disbelief(kufr) or depictions of Idols is also haram. Everything else besides this is ok, according to what I know

Depicting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in any form or depicting the Prophets or Imams in a way they could be recognized as a specific person with specific ethnicity or specific facial features or making art that promotes or glamorizes activities which are haram , like drinking alcohol, gambling, clubbing, etc is considered disrespectful toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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25 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Reminds me years ago wheb I saw on IslamQA or similar site, where the questioner asked if it was permissable to give their child a doll. To which the reply was, it was permissable  so long as the head is removed.

Seriously, what child would want to play with a headless doll? Secondly, do we really want to instill this behaviour in young Muslim children :rolleyes:

Exactly. If I followed the opinion of removing the heads of toys, that my mum for example bought my kids, I really wouldn't know how to explain that to her without making Islam sound idiotic... And these Islamqa/Islamweb sheikhs, they don't care that there are people who make themselves look like donkeys by following their nonsense every day of the week, every month of the year. They're creating a brain drain in the ummah.

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The correct answer is it is disputed according to jurists. Sistani for example says sculpturing of humans or animals is not permissible, as per obligatory precaution. But he allows drawing on a piece of paper, of a human or animal.

Shaykh Al-Khorasani in Qom is more strict, and he is against any illustration of humans or animals.

So it depends on your marja. 

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Guest burger and fries

Assalamailakum

The correct answer is:

It depends on which marja you do taqleed on

For example, brother Sumerian mentioned that Ayatollah Sistani prohibits sculpture and is fine with 2D Art

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Thanks guys for the answers. I just want to know why Sunni people believe drawing of anything is haram? I remember they said the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) disallows it, is that true? Who narrates that hadiths?

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12 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Thanks guys for the answers. I just want to know why Sunni people believe drawing of anything is haram? I remember they said the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) disallows it, is that true? Who narrates that hadiths?

Because they believe that only Allah can make creations and that drawing is like creating something that Allah creates. On the Day of Judgment they say Allah will ask the artist to breathe life into their drawings, to give it a soul, and they will not be able to and that they will then be punished for their art. According to them the person who will be punished most by Allah on that day will be the artists (contrary to what the Qur'an actually says). 

Such hadiths are narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar and Aishah. Such hadiths are found in Bukhari and Muslim. 

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I am just thinking about when I visited Tehran, I went to an art museum with Iranian painting done during the Safavi and Qajar periods. I asked an Iranian who was a photographer that I had just met if the Shia's was more accepting to imagery. He said that the Shia don't allow for images and want to forbid everything. The Sunis are much better he said. I was a little puzzled about that given the paintings in the museum an the fact that the Saudis once tried to ban television. I wonder if he knew what he was talking about or he was angry with some cleric who didn't like his line of work.

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25 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

 He said that the Shia don't allow for images and want to forbid everything. The Sunis are much better he said. I was a little puzzled about that given the paintings in the museum an the fact that the Saudis once tried to ban television. I wonder if he knew what he was talking about or he was angry with some cleric who didn't like his line of work.

Yeah that is utter nonsense and the complete opposite if anything. 

 

This is a documentary on Islamic art, watch from 48 to 58 mins, where he is in Iran talking about Safavid art.

As the presenter says, there is more than one colour, more than one tone to Islamic art.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Guest Hondo
17 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

Other scholars say photos and other moving images are fine but creating an image from the imagination is haram because you are in essence creating something, not merely capturing the image of something Allah has created.

This is a legitimate question, I am not being silly. According to this, would that mean cartoon characters like Superman and Spongebob are haram? So all cartoons, comics, and videogame artists are committing sin?

And you also said Shaykh Al-Khorasani in Qom says it's totally haram, do other Irani scholars in Qom (like Ayatullahs Khamenei and Khomeini) share this belief? I find this all concerning because art is very relevant to my chosen career. 

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3 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

I am just thinking about when I visited Tehran, I went to an art museum with Iranian painting done during the Safavi and Qajar periods. I asked an Iranian who was a photographer that I had just met if the Shia's was more accepting to imagery. He said that the Shia don't allow for images and want to forbid everything. The Sunis are much better he said. I was a little puzzled about that given the paintings in the museum an the fact that the Saudis once tried to ban television. I wonder if he knew what he was talking about or he was angry with some cleric who didn't like his line of work.

Sounds like a man with a whole punnet of sour grapes to me. Never seen any Sunnis create art or accept art, apart from the 'liberal' types or people who come from a Sunni family but don't practice any aspects, but history shows, as everyone knows, Islamic art is always from Persia. I'm sure if the Ayatollahs didn't like it, they could have burnt all the existing examples when the revolution happened... Alas, it is only Daesh we ever saw destroying art. 

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6 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

I'm sure if the Ayatollahs didn't like it, they could have burnt all the existing examples when the revolution happened... Alas, it is only Daesh we ever saw destroying art. 

In the Iran segment of the documentary I posted, he did mention how a few fanatics after the Revolution stormed a Safavid palace and tried to deface depictions of a scene of Paradise with sensual images of women. But the palace guards stood in their way. Obviously more an isolated incident rather than fatwa.

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1 minute ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

In the Iran segment of the documentary I posted, he did mention how a few fanatics after the Revolution stormed a Safavid palace and tried to deface depictions of a scene of Paradise with sensual images of women. But the palace guards stood in their way. Obviously more an isolated incident rather than fatwa.

Sorry, I was naughty and didn't do my homework. :book:

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49 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

I'm sure if the Ayatollahs didn't like it,

All over Tehran there are huge wall paintings of Imam Khomeini and Ali Khamenei. So I don't think they mind that much. I have great respect for Imam Khomeini and I think Ali Khamenei is a sensible and moderate person so I am not saying this to mock any of them. Neither do I think that the wall paintings will result in Shirk.

Edited by Revert1963

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1 hour ago, Guest Hondo said:

This is a legitimate question, I am not being silly. According to this, would that mean cartoon characters like Superman and Spongebob are haram? So all cartoons, comics, and videogame artists are committing sin?

And you also said Shaykh Al-Khorasani in Qom says it's totally haram, do other Irani scholars in Qom (like Ayatullahs Khamenei and Khomeini) share this belief? I find this all concerning because art is very relevant to my chosen career. 

I know it's legitimate and I don't think you are being silly. I think the intention of art, the thought behind it, the time spent doing it and the money spent doing it all need to be considered. If you follow the opinion art is halal, then perhaps consider making art that benefits rather than entertains, that teaches rather than numbs.

I can't speak on behalf of sheikhs from Qom or wherever, it wasn't me that brought it up sorry. There are many people on here who are well acquainted with their viewpoints though.

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 1:35 PM, aaaz1618 said:

Other scholars have have said only statues are prohibited due to association with polytheism.

l find this incomplete because mosaics, colored glass and most glazings on pottery also belong in the same 'associations'.

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10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l find this incomplete because mosaics, colored glass and most glazings on pottery also belong in the same 'associations'.

Salam these arts never were Haram in Shia Islam but narrations about drawing & prohibiting making statues returns about idea of our Imams against Ummayids & Abbasids mimicking from Arts of enemies of Islam in their palaces & Muslim community that still now when reserchers from non Muslims are mistaking their heritage as Islamic heritage but by passing their era & increasing knowledge of Muslims in our era our Marajas are allowing such arts because these arts currently don't mean worshiping statues or considering drawings as holy object & if someone do it with intention of worshiping statues or drawings we based on narration will consider it as Haram .

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On 7/6/2019 at 7:26 PM, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

However some of the earliest preserved and documented Islamic art comes from the Umayyad era, where they got into contact with Byzantine art. It was not uncommon to see depictions of people and animals for instance.

Yes the Ummayyads usefully left behind evidence as to what they were about.

Quote

Perhaps more impressive than the architecture, however, were the extensive frescoes that Musil found on the walls of the complex. The discovery of these paintings completely upended then-current scholarly understanding about figural representation in the early Islamic period. The paintings are uniquely Umayyad in subject matter and style, as no parallels are known from the Sasanian or Byzantine realms. One scene, for instance, depicts a pen of animals hunted by regal figures on horseback, while another shows nude women at the bath while men peep from above.

https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/byzantium-and-Islam/blog/where-in-the-world/posts/qusayr-amra

Edited by Haji 2003

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1 hour ago, farhanraza2050 said:

art design faces with eyes complete structure haram in Islam

Salam it may be haram in Sunni Islam but with some condition allowed in Shia Islam.

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On 7/6/2019 at 10:15 PM, Diaz said:

In Shia, is art haram? Like, I thought drawing is a sin, tho I think it’s only in Sunni sect. I asked a question in al Islam org and they said nope, art is not haram. 

What at is your thought?

Same as that of Al-Islam.org. Art is haram when it is used for bad purposes or when there is slight chance that it is going to be taken for wrong purpose. Otherwise not.

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1 hour ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Same as that of Al-Islam.org. Art is haram when it is used for bad purposes or when there is slight chance that it is going to be taken for wrong purpose. Otherwise not.

So drawing manga is haram?

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On 7/7/2019 at 1:08 PM, Guest Hondo said:

And you also said Shaykh Al-Khorasani in Qom says it's totally haram, do other Irani scholars in Qom (like Ayatullahs Khamenei and Khomeini) share this belief? I find this all concerning because art is very relevant to my chosen career. 

Sheykh Wahid considers all representations of living beings, be it 2D or 3D, physical or digital, as haram. 

The specific answer I received on this subject:

Quote

salamun alaykom.   Based on an obligatory precaution it is not permissible to paint human or animals. digital or other than that. 

Sayyed al Sistani considers sculpting haram, though not 2D graphics.

Sayyed Khamenei considers both 3D and 2D, physical and digital, halal. Specifically in his site:

Quote
Q1215. What is the view on making dolls and sculpture, or drawing living beings (plants, animals, and human beings)? And what is the view on selling, buying, acquiring, and exhibiting these items?
A: There is no harm at all in the sculpture, photography and drawings of living beings whether or not they have a soul. Also, it is permissible to sell, buy, or keep pictures and statues. There is no objection to showing them in an exhibition as well.

All of them consider islamically inappropriate content haram, as well as representations or interpretations that go against Islamic values. In the other hand, in the case of representing scenes or stories from religious sources, it must be absolutely true, otherwise it will be haram (that means, fiction shall not be mixed with religious historical narrations).

It must be also noted that if you are into videogames, projects involving gambling elements of any type turn the game into a gambling tool, and thus, it is haram to work on them. On what makes a game a gambling tool, there is discussion on this subject. I will write soon on the topic God willing.

Edited by Bakir

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12 hours ago, Diaz said:

So drawing manga is haram?

 

7 hours ago, Diaz said:

Yes it’s haram, I don’t know why I asked xD 

l'm not so sure because the manga l have seen is drawn in caricature and not the 'life like'  manner of the Renaissance and other styles. 

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7 hours ago, Diaz said:

Yes it’s haram, I don’t know why I asked xD 

Salam it's not Haram , even some Sunni sites are drawing manga & comic strips although they consider realistic drawing as Haram even in Iran we are starting manag & comic strip competitions & some religious site are using it  because for eastern countries like as Japan & Korea & Malaysia it's a better medium than other mediums to introduce Islam

https://rahyafteha.ir/en/category/graphic/

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2 hours ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Anything that's going to be taken by people as real depiction of Holy personalities is haram. Other than that it's fine.

Even as a child, one thing l never liked about religious art is the use of halos, glories and other lustering embellishments. 

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