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shia_100

Mutah with Christian girl

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Salam, ive met this Christian girl and we both have agreed to start a relationship, since my marja is sayed Sistani im only allowed to do mutah with her. My question is, is she required to take permission from her dad? And if her dad doesn’t agree because of invalid reasons, can she do it without his permission? She is not a virgin, she’s had sexual partners before. Thank you.

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Guest de trout

You need permission from her father because a non-virgin in Islam is defined as a person who's had sex in a halal marriage, be it permanent or temporary. 

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1 hour ago, shia_100 said:

Salam, ive met this Christian girl and we both have agreed to start a relationship, since my marja is sayed Sistani im only allowed to do mutah with her. My question is, is she required to take permission from her dad? And if her dad doesn’t agree because of invalid reasons, can she do it without his permission? She is not a virgin, she’s had sexual partners before. Thank you.

Walaykum as Salam,

There is no Western style, love relationships in Islam, you either marry her or you stay away from her altogether till proper marriage. We do not date. Nikah mutah comes with a set of rules and obligations and isn’t meant to fulfil illicit sexual desires. One of the rules is that she should be a chaste woman not addicted to fornication, if she is a “typical” Western girl that parties and changes boyfriends often, then nikah mutah is not valid with her and you will answer for the intentions on the Judgment Day. 

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25 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Walaykum as Salam,

There is no Western style, love relationships in Islam, you either marry her or you stay away from her altogether till proper marriage. We do not date. Nikah mutah comes with a set of rules and obligations and isn’t meant to fulfil illicit sexual desires. One of the rules is that she should be a chaste woman not addicted to fornication, if she is a “typical” Western girl that parties and changes boyfriends often, then nikah mutah is not valid with her and you will answer for the intentions on the Judgment Day. 

And who said im dating her? Instead of saying irrelevant stuff why don’t you answer the question?

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Do Christians even remain Christians if they engage in prohibited relationships with Muslims? That is a huge no no in Christianity.  Perhaps there is no issue from the Islamic perspective.  I highly doubt the fathers permission is required because the father cannot give permission for something that is impermissible in Christianity.

Edited by King

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3 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

One of the rules is that she should be a chaste woman not addicted to fornication, if she is a “typical” Western girl that parties and changes boyfriends often, then nikah mutah is not valid

If you are stating there is consensus on this amongst our maraji, then you are incorrect. In fact for argument's sake please show me one marja who has stated this. 

There are in fact maraji (including Grand Ayatollahs like Sayids Khomeini and al Hakeem) who say, although "undesirable" it is permissable with a known fornicating woman. 

As for many others, including Sayids Khoei and Sistani, there is no explicit fatwa that it is "haram" but based on obligatory precaution it is not permissable or until she repents.

Precaution is not a fatwa which means a marja stating something is ihtiyat (precaution) means the follower either follows that opinion or that of another marja.

Quote

If an A'lam Mujtahid gives a fatwa on some matter, his follower cannot act in that matter on the fatwa of another Mujtahid. But if he does not give a fatwa, and expresses a precaution (Ihtiyat) that a man should act in such and such a manner, for exam ple if he says that as a precautionary measure, in the first and second Rak'at of the Salat he should read a complete Surah after the Surah of “Hamd”, the follower may either act on this precaution, which is called obligatory precaution (Ihtiyat Wajib), or he may act on the fatwa of another Mujtahid who it is permissible to follow."

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-laws-ayatullah-Ali-al-husayni-al-Sistani/taqlid-following-mujtahid

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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4 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Walaykum as Salam,

There is no Western style, love relationships in Islam, you either marry her or you stay away from her altogether till proper marriage. We do not date. Nikah mutah comes with a set of rules and obligations and isn’t meant to fulfil illicit sexual desires. One of the rules is that she should be a chaste woman not addicted to fornication, if she is a “typical” Western girl that parties and changes boyfriends often, then nikah mutah is not valid with her and you will answer for the intentions on the Judgment Day. 

It depends on the marja certain Maraji allow nikkah mutah with women of zina though it’s makruh. See propagandadeed’s post. Secondly mutah means pleasure marriage so you can’t says it’s not about fulfilling desires cause ehhh.. it kinda is. The whole point is to avoid haram things like zina or masturbation.

Edited by TryHard

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2 hours ago, King said:

Do Christians even remain Christians if they engage in prohibited relationships with Muslims? That is a huge no no in Christianity.  Perhaps there is no issue from the Islamic perspective.  I highly doubt the fathers permission is required because the father cannot give permission for something that is impermissible in Christianity.

No permission is still required from many of our Maraji. Though certain circumstances may circumvent this.

Edited by TryHard

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12 minutes ago, TryHard said:

No permission is still required from many of our Maraji. Though certain circumstances may circumvent this.

In the west, legally, a person is independent at the age of 18; by law, they are not required to have their parent's permission to do anything. Islam instructs to follow the law of the land first.

What do the Maraj'I say about this case?

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6 hours ago, shia_100 said:

Salam, ive met this Christian girl and we both have agreed to start a relationship, since my marja is sayed Sistani im only allowed to do mutah with her. My question is, is she required to take permission from her dad? And if her dad doesn’t agree because of invalid reasons, can she do it without his permission? She is not a virgin, she’s had sexual partners before. Thank you.

Alaykum Salam 

k if her dad rejects you can still do mutah with her if she converts to Islam. Other than that

If he rejects for invalid reasons Sayed Sistani (ha) is very strict it’s hard to make the father lose wilayat for mutah. You should send istiftat but I don’t think it’s a viable route from what I remember. I would talk to him if possible like face to face tell him you would like to temporarily marry his daughter for relationship purposes. The dude can accept you someone who is honest face to face or watch his daughter go with another guy who could care less. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

In the west, legally, a person is independent at the age of 18; by law, they are not required to have their parent's permission to do anything. Islam instructs to follow the law of the land first.

What do the Maraj'I say about this case?

Not sure, cause your mixing a lot of things together and we should be precise.

1.What is “independent” in terms of the legal western government definition and what is the Islamic fiqhi version?

first to give a general statement like legally a person is independent it depends certain states may have different rules as to what that means and entails. For example she may be living in her parents home but still dependent on them for money, food, etc..

second what is Islam’s idea of independent? From my understanding may not be completely correct but Islam’s idea of independent is that she is able to provide for her own needs and makes her own decisions.

Regardless the problem is certain Maraji still require father’s permission even in the case she is independent.  

Sayed Sistani(ha).

 it is necessary to get the consent of her father or paternal grandfather, if she is not independent. However, it is precautionarily obligatory to seek their consent [I.e., of the father or the paternal grandfather], even if she is independent.

https://www.Sistani.org/english/book/46/2062/

 

For ayatollah Khamenei (ha)

Subject: Marriage, Divorce & ‘Iddah
Istifta’ no.: FC65V1Ykgms
Bismihi Ta`ala
Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Whatever the case is, the marriage of a virgin girl should, by obligatory caution, be contracted with the permission of her father or paternal grandfather. Without the said permission, the marriage contract is – by obligatory caution – not in order.
With prayers for your success
If a girl is independent but a virgin is the permission of her father necessary? If so is this based off obligatory precaution?
Does the situation change if she is ahlul kitab?
Edited by TryHard

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Guest Valor

Not just permission, she will also have to follow the rules such as ( Iddah ). If you're that interested in each other why don't you marry her, as in permanent marriage? If you insist on it then I'll advise you to make sure she isn't carrying any sexual diseases, hence you stated she had been with "partners" before.

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