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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammad Servant of Allah

Turbah تربه ?? Teach me please

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Salam Alykum,

I am seeking people with knowledge regarding topics that I love to discuss so I can able to see for my self so I can be able to understand and pounder, also eagerly seeking the truth to the TRUE path to Allah. 

I am not here to create disorder but rather to intellect with logic and reasoning just like Prophet Ibrahim AS. I hold Prophet Ibrahim as a best example for a pious man who all he ever wanted to seek Allah, serve Allah and most of all be Allah best friend who Allah guides who he will and Allah does what he will. 

Now...

Turbah?

I honestly do not understand the foundation of this object that is made of clay. 

I invite only those people with knowledge regarding this topic and I hope we can have a constructive discussion regarding Turbah. 

1: What is Turbah?

2: When did Turbah first was introduced?

3:  What is the justification of Turbah for it being part of Salat?

4: How can you justify that Turbah is not an object to associate it with Allah as Shrik?

5: is Turbah an Idol? If not then how can you justify it not being an Idol? 

6: How did the Prophets before Mohammed {as} prayed on?

7: How did the Prophet prayed and prayed on?

 

Now I understand my questions are very spot on to the point, that’s because I do not want to waste any ones times as I need to be very clear. 

Below my name I will introduce my background in intellectual skills so I am hoping to find people here that can level with me. If Allah wills.  

Awaiting patiently for the will of Allah. 

Mohammed.  

 

I am 35 years old and I can speak Arabic, English and Urdu (HINDI) including Persian (Farsi) in general level.  

I am a Graphic Designer, which I mainly focus on Abstract Design whether in art form or Typography. My taste is more in typography abstract design. What I do is I code and decode designs in typography. What I do is I can decode languages such as from Arabic to Japanese and from English to Aboriginal ancient language. I decode words and able to find its source and able to give a descriptive narration of the words. 

Another words in simple term I am like those who decode Egyptian language on the wall to see what it is saying so you need someone to decode and that’s where I come from but never worked as one. I do this while I run my business as hobby. 

I don’t like contradiction and I also don’t like corruption in knowledge it needs to be backed up with Authentic ruling and we all know only Allah Books can be a wise ruling.  

  

Thank you and hope we can learn something 

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Turbah is literally just ground, straight from the Earth. It’s a surface u place ur head on, like a rug, but it hasn’t gone through any human interaction. 100% clean Earth.

Would you object if I made a rug out of a Turbah? are u just objecting because it’s shape?

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Thank you so much for your reply Ibn Al-Shaid. @Ibn Al-Shahid

I understand Turbah which comes from root word T R B and it’s descriptive definition is dust, soil dirt and mixed with water becomes mud. After the wet Turbah dries comes hard clay. 

I can’t help objecting to it because there is a theory of a Duck if I may share this with you without offending, I am just trying to reason with this. “If you see a bird that walks like a duck and quacks like duck then its a Duck” its a very simple thing you can do to determine what from right and wrong. 

Hence the Turba. If its looks like a idol and feels like idol then I am sorry its an Idol. 

Now I am not rejecting but rather want to understand why it is part of our Deen. 

Because a moment ago Mr.. Diaz sends me a link which I have studied and seen many more like it. 

I need someone to share a Quranic Proof Ayah or Ayat so I can calm my heart regarding to it. 

And please the rest of my questions if you don’t mind brother. Thank you in advance. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Tagging

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4 hours ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

I invite only those people with knowledge regarding this topic and I hope we can have a constructive discussion regarding Turbah. 

1: What is Turbah?

2: When did Turbah first was introduced?

3:  What is the justification of Turbah for it being part of Salat?

4: How can you justify that Turbah is not an object to associate it with Allah as Shrik?

5: is Turbah an Idol? If not then how can you justify it not being an Idol? 

6: How did the Prophets before Mohammed {as} prayed on?

7: How did the Prophet prayed and prayed on?

1.  A turbah (Arabic: تربة‎; Persian: مهرmohr) is a small piece of soil or clay, often a clay tablet, used during salat (Islamic daily prayers) to symbolize Earth,

The most favoured soil is that of Karbala, the site of the death of Husayn ibn Ali; however, soil from anywhere may be used. In the absence of soil, plants or items made from plants may be substituted. This provision has been extended to include the use of paper

Following the instruction from the Qur'an, Shi’ah Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq stated that "prostration must be performed on pure Earth or what grows on it, provided that it is not eaten or worn." For example, prostration on paper is permissible because it is made of natural elements grown on Earth.[3] Although it is not required of a person to prostrate on a turbah during prayer, many Shia Muslims prefer to use one because it demonstrates their concern for the cleanliness of their bodies, clothes, and the place in which they pray, hence the production of the portable turbahs.

2 and 3.  According to Abu Sa`id al-Khudri: “I saw Allah’s Apostle prostrating in mud and water and saw the marl of mud on his forehead.”[4] Though Muhammad prayed on the ground, the hadith Sahih al-Bukhari states that "Allah’s Apostle used to pray on Khumra."

The idea of "absolute consideration" states that some kinds of soil, and thus some kinds of places are better than others for prayer. For example, places, buildings, and structures related to Allah and Muhammad are held in the highest regard when it comes to places in which to hold prayer. [5]

The Earth is a Place of Prostration There is a narration narrated in Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, as well as the Shia books, where the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) says:

“The Earth is made for me as place of prostration and purification.”

(Bukhari1:209, Muslim 1:371, Wasa’elu-Shi’a 3:423)

From this narration, we understand that when we prostrate, it should be on ‘Earth’ or something directly from the Earth. This includes soil, sand, pebbles and minerals (except gold and silver). It also includes paper and leaves from trees because they grow from the Earth. (Tissue is probably the last option if nothing else is available).

The other condition is that the thing we pray on must not be wearable or edible. Therefore, we cannot pray on leaves from plants which are edible or from which clothes can be made (e.g. cotton).

Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) says:

“Prostration is only allowed on Earth or things that are from the Earth, except those things which can be worn or consumed”. (Wasailul Shia, 3:591)

4 & 5.  In reply to this question, it must be noted that there is a great difference between the phrase, “as-sujud lillah” {prostration for Allah}, and “as-sujud ‘ala’l-ard” {prostration on Earth}. The problem of the mentioned people is that they fail to distinguish between the meanings of the two phrases.

It is clear that the meaning of “as-sujud lillah” is “prostration for the sake of Allah” while “as-sujud ‘ala’l-ard” means “prostration on the Earth”. In other words, by prostrating on Earth we prostrate for the sake of God, and in principle, All Muslims of the world prostrate on something for the sake of God. All pilgrims to the House of God prostrate on the stones of Masjid al-Haram in the same way but their aim is prostrating for the sake of God.

Similarly, it becomes clear that prostration on turbah is different from prostration for turbah.

On one hand, the Holy Qur’an states:

"ولله يسجد من في السموات والأرض."

“To Allah prostrates whoever there is in the heavens and the Earth.”1

Also, the Holy Prophet (S) says:

”جُعِلَتْ لِيَ الأَرْضُ مَسْجِداً وَ طَهُوْراً.“

“The (pure) Earth has been made for me as a place of prostration and an agent of purification.”
Therefore, “prostration for God” and “prostration on Earth or turbah” are not only far from being inconsistent but they agree with each other completely.

https://www.al-Islam.org/Shia-rebuts-Sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-19-why-do-shiah-prostrate-on-turbah-dried-clay

6 & 7.  The Qur'an instructs us to follow the Prophet Muhammad saww and he saww is follower of the religion Islam that is the religion of ibrahim as. This provides the evidence from above presented answers that it is the Prophet sunna to prostrate on the Earth and starw mat etc.

We do not pray on carpet because it is not Earth and is not made from Earth. The above narration says that we should pray on the Earth, and therefore carpet is no something we can pray on. This is confirmed by other narrations. Abu Said al-Khudri narrates about the Prophet:

“We were in the mosque and the roof of the mosque was made of date palm branches so that we could not see up into the sky. One day it rained heavily. The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) led the prayer with us, so much so that I saw the marks of the mud on the forehead of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)…” (Bukhari, 2:386)

A’isha narrates:

“The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) never placed anything between his forehead and the Earth…”

(Mosnad Imam Ahmad, 6:58)

At the time of the Prophet, carpets did exist and if the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) wished, he could have prayed on a carpet or laid the mosque’s floor with carpet. However, this never happened.

Um Salama: ‘The Prophet would pray on a small strawmat’.

Anas: ‘The Prophet would pray on a straw mat’.

(Bukhari, 1:231)

Therefore, it is at least a precaution to avoid praying on carpet as the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) did not ever do this. Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) says:

“I prefer that he prostrates on the Earth. The Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) used to like to place his forehead on the Earth. I like for you what the Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) used to like.”

(WasailulShia)

"You may respond for any further assistance required  in this concern, please"

wasalam.

Edited by Muslim2010

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On 6/26/2019 at 4:59 PM, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Thank you Mr... Diaz. @Diaz

I am aware of this website.

What is your view on the topic can you share any thing? How can you answer what I am asking. ?

Well, I already linked a good website that explains it. You did not agree with it. @Muslim2010 explains it properly each steps one by one but still you did not agree with it. So sorry I think I can’t help you.

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On 6/26/2019 at 10:53 AM, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Thank you so much for your reply Ibn Al-Shaid. @Ibn Al-Shahid

I understand Turbah which comes from root word T R B and it’s descriptive definition is dust, soil dirt and mixed with water becomes mud. After the wet Turbah dries comes hard clay. 

I can’t help objecting to it because there is a theory of a Duck if I may share this with you without offending, I am just trying to reason with this. “If you see a bird that walks like a duck and quacks like duck then its a Duck” its a very simple thing you can do to determine what from right and wrong. 

Hence the Turba. If its looks like a idol and feels like idol then I am sorry its an Idol. 

Now I am not rejecting but rather want to understand why it is part of our Deen. 

Because a moment ago Mr... Diaz sends me a link which I have studied and seen many more like it. 

I need someone to share a Quranic Proof Ayah or Ayat so I can calm my heart regarding to it. 

And please the rest of my questions if you don’t mind brother. Thank you in advance. 

No offense, that's a silly analogy. If u believe in this "duck" business then u also believe all transgenders are the gender they claim and not what they're born as, which is scientifically absurd.

Again, u seem to be having a problem with the shape. If I made a rug out of a turbah, u wouldn't complain because it would "Look like a rug and feel like a rug". 

No offense my brother, u claim to be logical but it doesn't seem like u have studied it enough to actually be logical.

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If touching your head on a piece of clay is shirk then so then must be kissing and touching the Black Stone, prostrating on the floor, the carpet or saying alhamdulillah while staring at the back of some random person's head in the mosque.

Funny how one extremist group chucks scorn on you all for doing one thing using clay but keeps quiet about the fact they do something else to a black stone... Hmm...

I don't follow the Shi'a maddhab but I honestly cannot see how people can see a turbah as an idol. Nobody says 'Ya Turbah', 'All praise and thanks be to the turbah', 'glory be to the turbah'. Of course the logic of this flies out of the ears of a literalist like a gust of wind.

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37 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Ok so now a turbah looks an idol ? 

Wa Alyka Salam wal Huda Allah Mr. Realizm

An Idol = S N M anything that is is made of clay, gold, silver copper etc. 

if its a statue of something then its fine but when it is associated with Allah to pray then that object you feel you need in order to connect with Allah becomes an idol. 

Also just because you write Allah on it then !00% becomes an Idol. Because you need to read Surat Al Ikhlas. In Fact the whole Qur'an you can clearly see Allah obeys us not to have any kind of Idol when we are praying to Him. So I don’t know Qur'an says its Idol.. but people say its not. Logically and reasonably some one is wrong, I don’t think Qur'an is wrong so that leaves the people to explain it selves how are they justifying it not being an Idol. 

 

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On 6/26/2019 at 1:53 PM, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Hence the Turba. If its looks like a idol and feels like idol then I am sorry its an Idol.

How do you interpret and what proof do you have that Turbah is an idol?

Are you not rejecting the hadith of the Prophet to pray and make a prostration on the Earth, strawmat,etc presented in my last post?

 

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56 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

If touching your head on a piece of clay is shirk then so then must be kissing and touching the Black Stone, prostrating on the floor, the carpet or saying alhamdulillah while staring at the back of some random person's head in the mosque.

Funny how one extremist group chucks scorn on you all for doing one thing using clay but keeps quiet about the fact they do something else to a black stone... Hmm...

I don't follow the Shi'a maddhab but I honestly cannot see how people can see a turbah as an idol. Nobody says 'Ya Turbah', 'All praise and thanks be to the turbah', 'glory be to the turbah'. Of course the logic of this flies out of the ears of a literalist like a gust of wind.

Salam Mr. AAAZ1618, 

I would love to talk about the Black stone but I rather not, way too sensitive to talk about people wont bare knowing the truth. 

Regarding Shrik. Let’s define it , What is Shrik in your opinion? 

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23 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

How do you interpret and what proof do you have that Turbah is an idol?

Are you not rejecting the hadith of the Prophet to pray and make a prostration on the Earth, strawmat,etc presented in my last post?

Salam Mr.. Muslim2010. 

I am not rejecting the Prophet Hadith or Allahs Hadith. I would never ever follow any other Hadith but the Hadith Allah gave to Mohammed May Allah grant us to be one of his companion. 

So, May I know what is the Chapter and Verse in Qur'an are you referring it to ?

awaiting for your humble reply. 

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1. The first hadith of Bukhari is that every action is based on intention / niyyah.  No Shia Muslim makes prostration on turbah /. mohr made out of dried clay for the sake of prostration to Turbah but the prostration is made only to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the zikr of sajda is recited. 

the Holy Qur’an states:

"ولله يسجد من في السموات والأرض."

“To Allah prostrates whoever there is in the heavens and the Earth.”1

Also, the Holy Prophet (S) says:

”جُعِلَتْ لِيَ الأَرْضُ مَسْجِداً وَ طَهُوْراً.“

“The (pure) Earth has been made for me as a place of prostration and an agent of purification.”

https://www.al-Islam.org/Shia-rebuts-Sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-19-why-do-shiah-prostrate-on-turbah-dried-clay

2. Why the Sunnis and extremist Sunnis consider every action without its understanding as Shirk? Why their mind have  become so closed that the true Tauheed is going to be lost from their mind?

Edited by Muslim2010

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Salam 

Prostration on Earth do thr Shia worship Turbas?

Why do the Shia prostrate on turban (soil)

 

 

Prostration (Sajda) in Islam -why do Shia do prostration on Turba ?

 

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23 minutes ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Salam Mr... AAAZ1618, 

I would love to talk about the Black stone but I rather not, way too sensitive to talk about people wont bare knowing the truth. 

Regarding Shrik. Let’s define it , What is Shrik in your opinion? 

It's not too sensitive, it's a stone, if we want to throw the shirk label around about one stone, then why not do it about other stones. The Ahlul Sunnah believe that doing dhikr with pebbles was a really bad thing, enough to warrant one of the future caliphs to kick the pebbles out of a person's hand while they sat down after prayer!

My understanding of shirk means to share your association or worship with something or someone else other than or alongside Allah. When one takes their scholar's ruling even if it contradicts the Qur'an, this is also considered shirk, but this is far more difficult to define than the usual concepts of shirk such as praying to a statue etc.

Edited by aaaz1618

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1 hour ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

I would love to talk about the Black stone but I rather not, way too sensitive to talk about people wont bare knowing the truth. 

Regarding Shrik. Let’s define it , What is Shrik in your opinion? 

“The Messenger of Allah (S) used to prostrate on khumrah (a mat made from palm fibers).”6
Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri, a Companion of the Messenger of the Allah (S), says:

"دخلت على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وأله وسلم وهو يصلّي على حصير."

Once I came to the Messenger of Allah (S) and saw him praying on a straw mat.”7
This statement is another proof which supports the Shi‘ah view that prostration on whatever grows in the Earth other than what is eaten or worn is permissi

Jabir ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Ansari says:

"كنت أصلي الظهر مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وأله وسلم فأخذ قبضة من الحصاء لتبرد في كفّي اضعها لجبهتي أسجد عليها لشدة الحرّ."

I used to perform noon {zuhr} prayer with the Messenger of Allah (S). Because it was very hot I used to take a handful of small gravel, keep it in my hand till it got cool, and place my forehead on it for prostration.8

Ibn Sa‘d (d. 209 AH), in his book, At-Tabaqat al-Kubra, thus writes:

"كان مسروق إذا خرج يخرج بلبنة يسجد عليها في السفينة."

“Whenever Masruq (ibn Ajda‘) traveled, he used to keep a mud-brick with him on which to prostrate while onboard the ship.”9

Rizin says:

"كتب إليّ عليّ بن عبد الله بن عباس رضى الله عليه أن ابعث إليّ بلوح من أحجار المروة أسجد عليه."

“‘Ali ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) wrote to me: ‘Send me a tablet of the stones of Mount Marwah so that I may prostrate on it.”12

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) says:

"السجود على الأرض فريضة وعلى الخمرة سنة."

“Prostration on the Earth is obligatory while prostrating on a straw mat is a sunnah.”15
He (‘a) also says:

"السجود لا يجوز على الأرض أو على ما أنبتت الأرض إلا ما أكل أو لبس."

“It is not permissible to prostrate on anything except the Earth or what grows in it excluding that which is eaten or worn.”

https://www.al-Islam.org/Shia-rebuts-Sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-19-why-do-shiah-prostrate-on-turbah-dried-clay

When the actions of prostration on Earth, strawmat,  gravel, brick piece etc are permissible by the sayings of the Prophet saww and the actions of the companions following him how does it constitutes Shirk to prostrate on turbah made of clay?

Edited by Muslim2010

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15 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam 

Prostration on Earth do thr Shia worship Turbas?

Why do the Shia prostrate on turban (soil)

 

 

Prostration (Sajda) in Islam -why do Shia do prostration on Turba ?

 

I am a graphic designer and I can speak a lot and very clearly.. If I wanted to I too could make videos visual videos and talk and talk and talk and talk. 

You see as a experience talker I came to realise that “TALK is CHEAP”

Proof is everything. Show me an AYA of Allah ordering me to pray on Turbah.. 

but thank you for sharing these videos because I already seen them but to me its all stories that has no backing of Qur'an or any other Holy Books of Allah. 

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15 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

“The Messenger of Allah (S) used to prostrate on khumrah (a mat made from palm fibers).”6
Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri, a Companion of the Messenger of the Allah (S), says:

"دخلت على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وأله وسلم وهو يصلّي على حصير."

Once I came to the Messenger of Allah (S) and saw him praying on a straw mat.”7
This statement is another proof which supports the Shi‘ah view that prostration on whatever grows in the Earth other than what is eaten or worn is permissi

Jabir ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Ansari says:

"كنت أصلي الظهر مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وأله وسلم فأخذ قبضة من الحصاء لتبرد في كفّي اضعها لجبهتي أسجد عليها لشدة الحرّ."

I used to perform noon {zuhr} prayer with the Messenger of Allah (S). Because it was very hot I used to take a handful of small gravel, keep it in my hand till it got cool, and place my forehead on it for prostration.8

Ibn Sa‘d (d. 209 AH), in his book, At-Tabaqat al-Kubra, thus writes:

"كان مسروق إذا خرج يخرج بلبنة يسجد عليها في السفينة."

“Whenever Masruq (ibn Ajda‘) traveled, he used to keep a mud-brick with him on which to prostrate while onboard the ship.”9

Rizin says:

"كتب إليّ عليّ بن عبد الله بن عباس رضى الله عليه أن ابعث إليّ بلوح من أحجار المروة أسجد عليه."

“‘Ali ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) wrote to me: ‘Send me a tablet of the stones of Mount Marwah so that I may prostrate on it.”12

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) says:

"السجود على الأرض فريضة وعلى الخمرة سنة."

“Prostration on the Earth is obligatory while prostrating on a straw mat is a sunnah.”15
He (‘a) also says:

"السجود لا يجوز على الأرض أو على ما أنبتت الأرض إلا ما أكل أو لبس."

“It is not permissible to prostrate on anything except the Earth or what grows in it excluding that which is eaten or worn.”

https://www.al-Islam.org/Shia-rebuts-Sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-19-why-do-shiah-prostrate-on-turbah-dried-clay

When the actions of prostration on Earth, strawmat,  gravel, brick piece etc are permissible by the sayings of the Prophet saww and the actions of the companions following him how does it constitutes Shirk to prostrate on turbah made of clay?

Brother your information is NOT correct. 

You keep using peoples book to justify The Turba not being an idol. 

I will give you an example Allah gives to his servants. 

Now.. is the blind man is as equal to one who is not?

be careful you need to be logical and reasonable. 

Awaiting for your humbly reply.

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15 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

It's not too sensitive, it's a stone, if we want to throw the shirk label around about one stone, then why not do it about other stones. The Ahlul Sunnah believe that doing dhikr with pebbles was a really bad thing, enough to warrant one of the future caliphs to kick the pebbles out of a person's hand while they sat down after prayer!

My understanding of shirk means to share your association or worship with something or someone else other than or alongside Allah. When one takes their scholar's ruling even if it contradicts the Qur'an, this is also considered shirk, but this is far more difficult to define than the usual concepts of shirk such as praying to a statue etc.

What I do is I decipher and decode Languages and Quranic words are the most easiest to decode. Why? Because it has no shame. The word has one definition. The Language of Qur'an cannot be shamed. This is why you people have so much problems understanding it because your leaders tell you when and how and what to do as if they are some chosen people to understand Qur'an. Well I beg to differ I can understand it because I don’t allow contradiction when it comes to what the word is. SHRIK is SHRIK either physically or internally , it is Shrik. Don’t give your self headaches about it. 

People forget that there is one being who is still alive throughout the history His name is “SATAN”

you think he is not working us out. 

Now as for the Turba or the Black stone.. 

Yes it comes from the same family. An idol. 

Because you can prove its not an Idol by not using Qur'an. 

I can prove its Idol by Using only Qur'an. 

I mean I dare any one who thinks Qur'an is not enough to judge this. 

But through intellect :)

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On 6/28/2019 at 10:37 PM, Muslim2010 said:

the Holy Qur’an states:

 "ولله يسجد من في السموات والأرض."

So This ayah is your proof for Turba?

so you claim Allah according to your reason that someone may Allah forgive me to say this that He puts his face on Earth and in the skies. How can you explain physically how you understand this verse. 

Again. What is SJD? The problem is that you are connect the word Sajad to physical description for one to put his face on the ground or turba.. 

now if I tell you enter heaven while you are SAJIDOON would you end it while dragging your face forward on the ground towards heaven?

This is contradiction and I ask you again how can you connect 2 things together like that? Especially you have no proof from Qur'an. I am troubled. 

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10 hours ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Brother your information is NOT correct. 

You keep using peoples book to justify The Turba not being an idol. 

I will give you an example Allah gives to his servants. 

Now.. is the blind man is as equal to one who is not?

 

Brother, I await the evidence and proof for your conjectures that I have already posted earlier in this thread where you have found unable to provide a single evidence for those. The links are provided below:

"How do you interpret and what proof do you have that Turbah is an idol? 

Are you not rejecting the hadith of the Prophet to pray and make a prostration on the Earth, strawmat,etc presented in my last post?"

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235062708-turbah-تربه-teach-me-please/?do=findComment&comment=3224725

2. Why the Sunnis and extremist Sunnis consider every action without its understanding as Shirk? Why their mind have  become so closed that the true Tauheed is going to be lost from their mind?

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235062708-turbah-تربه-teach-me-please/?do=findComment&comment=3224731

When the actions of prostration on Earth, strawmat,  gravel, brick piece etc are permissible by the sayings of the Prophet saww and the actions of the companions following him how does it constitutes Shirk to prostrate on turbah made of clay?

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235062708-turbah-تربه-teach-me-please/?do=findComment&comment=3224737

The Qur'an mentions the following for the evidence of truth:

قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.  (2:111)

Do you reject the sunna of the Prophet s,a,w that is the second source of guidance by Sunnis and extremist Sunnis / salafis after the book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

The one who does not ponder and think over the truth and evidences presented has Cretanly a blind eye and heart.

وَمَن كَانَ فِي هَٰذِهِ أَعْمَىٰ فَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ أَعْمَىٰ وَأَضَلُّ سَبِيلًا

And whoever is blind in this, he shall (also) be blind in the hereafter; and more erring from the way. (17:71)

wasalam

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

@Mohammed Servant of Allah Your posts make little sense. Maybe you should try answering what people are asking. 

 

My post are strange but its only common sense. At the beginning I am happy to see that I am making a little sense but Insha Allah I will prove what I am saying through things you can see in coming days. 

as for answering peoples question and concern I try to do that as much as I can on the topics I can help. I have been commenting here and there. But I rather focus on the topics that are very important to raise. Soon I will raise many topics and I like to see where people stand on each topics. 

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1 minute ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

as for answering peoples question and concern I try to do that as much as I can on the topics I can help. I have been commenting here and there. But I rather focus on the topics that are very important to raise

I meant on the topics you are replying to, for example your reply to aaaz1618 above.

I doubt if you will be able to change anything here.

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10 hours ago, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

[...] This is why you people have so much problems understanding it because your leaders tell you when and how and what to do as if they are some chosen people to understand Qur'an. 

I see, I see.

Do feel free to learn a bit about the person you write to before making such assumptions. 

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:salam:
Honestly anyone can understand these points without having so much knowledge :confused:
Well, the following link can help you, tho.
https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/laws-practices-why-do-shiah-prostrate-turbah

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On 6/29/2019 at 8:33 AM, Mohammed Servant of Allah said:

Show me an AYA of Allah ordering me to pray on Turbah.. 

مَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّـهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖتَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّـهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ اللَّـهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا ﴿٢٩

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward. (29)

 

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/48:29

that both in Torah & gospel all believers were putting their forehead on  soil of Earth & Prophet Mosque  during time of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) didn't has rooftop & on bottom was just soil or some leaf rugs that both of these accepted in Shia fiqh for prostration  but there wasn't woolen or cotton rugs 

I bring the verse & hadith now you bring a verse from Qur'an & any source that proves that allows prostration on rug other than soil of Earth & plant that grows from Earth provide evidence that you can prostrate on wool & cotton from Qur'an & Prophet Muhammad (pbu) because I know that Imams of four Sunni school of taught allowed it from themselves not Qur'an & Prophet Muhmmad (pbu) Sunnah.

and Prophet Muhammad (pbu) said 

وجعلت لي الارض مسجدا و طهورا 

 صحيح بخاري کتاب التيمم ح 323 ، 1/ 209

صحیح بخاری،ج1،ص91؛سنن بیهقی،ج2،ص433

Sahih Bukahri v1 , p 91 Sunan Beihaqi  ,v2 , p 433

 

 بخاری، محمد بن إسماعیل، صحیح البخاری، ج۱، ص۷۴.    

 

Bukahri  ,Sahih bukhari , v 1 ,p 74

http://wikifeqh.ir/سجده_با_پیشانی_(قرآن)

http://www.porsemanequran.com/content/سجده-بر-مهر

and he (Allah) make Earth for me as mosque and purifier 

Sahih Bukhari ,book of Tayamun  hadith 323 .209/1

Um Salama (رضي الله عنه) from Prophet Muhammad (pbu) said :

put your face on soil for sake of Allah 

Kanzul amal , Book of Salat ,prostration and what related to it hadith 19809 /465

کنز العمال ، کتاب الصلاه ، السجود و ما يتعلق به ، ح19809 /465

Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه) said from Prophet Muhammad (pbu) : who doesn't put his forehead  and nose on during prostration his prayer is not true (it's void) 

Al-Sunan Kubra  , book of Salat , chapter what must put forehead in prostration  2/142

السنن الکبري ، کتاب الصلاه ، باب ما جاء في السجود علي الانف 2/142

http://www.quranpuyan.com/yaf_postsm3389findunread_chr-Dr........-sjdh-z-mhr-stfdh-my-khnym-y-nmd-shrkh-nyst.aspx

7- Umar bin Khattab says: “We came out on a rainy night for the morning prayer, we each picked some rocks and carpeted the mosque’s floor with them and prayed on them. When the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) noticed this, he said: “What a good thing [you did]. It was since then that prostrating on stone began.”[11]

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa2467

[11] Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 1, pg. 75; Al-Sunan al-Kubra, vol. 2, pg. 440.

- Anas bin Malik says: “We would pray with the Prophet under intense heat, and would each pick up a stone and hold it in our hand so it would cool down, and when it did, we would prostrate on it.”[10]

3- Ibn Abbas says: “The Prophet prostrated on stone.”[8]

[8] In his Mustadrak, Hakim has narrated this hadith and Dhahabi has corrected it, vol. 3, pg. 473.

8- Ayad bin Abdillah Qurashi narrates: “When the Prophet saw a man prostrating with the turban he had on, he signaled him to push the turban back and prostrate on his [bare] forehead.”[12]

[12] Al-Sunan al-Kubra, vol. 2, pg. 105.

The evidence for this is a hadith that reads: “When you prostrate, place your forehead on the ground and don’t poke it to the ground quickly.”[1]

There is also another hadith in this regard: “We complained to the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) about the heat of the ground of Makkah and Madinah on our foreheads and hands, but the Prophet didn’t give our complaint a positive answer [he didn’t make any change in the rite].”[2]

 

[1] Ibn Habban, Sahihah, vol. 1, pg. 264.

 

[2] Muslim, Sahih, vol. 3, pg. 312; Ibn Majah, Sunan, vol. 2, pg. 360.

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa2467

Anas bin Malik. Anas says: “We would pray with the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). Whenever one of us couldn’t put his forehead on the ground because of the heat, he would spread his shirt on the ground and prostrate on it.”

This hadith has been mentioned in different Sunnis sources, most notably in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, with different wordings.[21]

[21] Bukhari, Sahih, vol. 1, pg. 101; Muslim, Sahih, vol. 2, pg. 109; Ibn Majah, Al-Sunan, vol. 1, pg. 321; Abu Dawud, Al-Sunan, vol. 1, pg. 106.

Even Abuhuraira said :  I saw Prophet in a rainy day was prostratin, that I saw trace of it (Earth soil) on his forehead and nose

52. مجمع الزوائد، ج2، ص126.

Majma'al Zawaed  , v 2 , p 126

https://hawzah.net/fa/Article/View/86147/سجده-بر-خاک-در-پرتو-کتاب-و-سنّت

:عایشه

انه کان لرسول الله(ص) حصیر یبسطه بالنهار و یحتجره باللیل یصلی علیه) غریب الحدیث دینوری، ج 1، ص 77.

Ayesha : Rasool Allah had a leaf rug that was expanding it during day and was opening it during night that was praying on it 

Qarib al-Hadith dinvary  , v1 ,p77

http://alwahabiyah.com/fa/Question/View/3344/سجده-بر-خاک

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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4 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I think it's safe to say OP disagrees.

Yes it is safe and easy for OP to mark the emoji "Disagree" for every post.

OP has failed to use his head for reading the posts, learning the content based on verses of Qur'an and hadith of the Prophet, Understanding the truth and logic defined therein and also failed to respond to the questions asked to him. (I also expect a mark of Disagree emoji from OP for this post  :grin: )

Edited by Muslim2010

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41 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Visual depiction of OP pressing Disagree emoji to every post without reading , comprehending or reflecting on them:

tenor.gif?itemid=9641274

There was a GIF of a cat doing something similar but it was funnier. I can't find it anywhere.

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1 hour ago, Muslim2010 said:

Yes it is safe and easy for OP to mark the emoji "Disagree" for every post.

OP has failed to use his head for reading the posts, learning the content based on verses of Qur'an and hadith of the Prophet, Understanding the truth and logic defined therein and also failed to respond to the questions asked to him. (I also expect a mark of Disagree emoji from OP for this post  :grin: )

So someone has added himself with OP for marking Disagree emoji? nothing seems new.

I am not surprised as expected already and mentioned in my last post.

Edited by Muslim2010

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