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Jawad231

Don't allowed to have intercourse

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Asalam aleykum dear brothers and sisters.

I have an Islamic question that fits my personal situation. I want to have more information about how to handle my situation.

It's as follows:

I live in the Netherlands  and my wife lives in Pakistan. We've been married for over a year now. 

In the Netherlands I study and in 2 years I will be finishing my study. Then I can work and get my wife to the Netherlands ( due to my stable income)

Each year I visit my wife in the summer during holidays. Then we will also sleep together. But the problem is that her parents don't allow me and her to have intercourse with each other. We are allowed to sleep together but we aren't allowed to have intercourse.

I don't know what to do. Because in Islamic point of view having intercourse is legal. It's even illegal to deny sexual feelings for each other while being married. On the other hand having intercourse will be against the will of her parents. Also I will break their trust. 

I hope you can help me out with this question.

Greetings,

Jawad

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25 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

On the other hand having intercourse will be against the will of her parents. A

Sorry but it's your wife who is to blame here. She is the one denying you intimacy. 

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11 minutes ago, starlight said:

Sorry but it's your wife who is to blame here. She is the one denying you intimacy. 

True, if she wanted intercourse too, it would've happened.

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44 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

But the problem is that her parents don't allow me and her to have intercourse with each other. We are allowed to sleep together but we aren't allowed to have intercourse.

Am I the only one here thinking how they would know if yall being discrete?

352DDE7F00000578-3637422-image-m-150_146

It is your right my brother, as an Islamically married couple, they have no business in the bedroom. 

Also I am assuming you made no such agreements on the aqd, so I don't see the issue here.

 

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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11 minutes ago, Tamy said:

I don’t get it why would her parents tell you two not to do it?

They are afraid that I'll fail to find a job in 2 years and then not to get her to the Netherlands. Also having intercourse will risk that my have could become pregnant. Getting my children to the Netherlands will make things difficult. Also when I can't get her to the Netherlands they can remarry her. But I have sworn that in all cases I will get her to Europe.

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6 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Am I the only one here thinking how they would know if yall being discrete?

It is your right my brother, as an Islamically married couple, they have no business in the bedroom. 

Also I am assuming you made no such agreements on the aqd, so I don't see the issue here.

No I didn't made such agreements during performing of Nikah. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Removed image

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27 minutes ago, starlight said:

Sorry but it's your wife who is to blame here. She is the one denying you intimacy. 

She doesn't deny me intimacy. She is just afraid of her parents. They might find out that she's had intimacy. But I know that in an Islamic point of view it's not their business to be in the middle of me and my wife. But we all can be afraid if our parents come yelling why we have had intimacy. It's a kind of hidden taboo and respect to their parents. But it's difficult for me and for her.

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

Ouch!  I really don't know what to say. Are they this direct? 

Not directly but I can think of this situation that might could happen. But I (we) hope not. Because we truly love each others.

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4 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

They are afraid that I'll fail to find a job in 2 years and then not to get her to the Netherlands. Also having intercourse will risk that my have could become pregnant. Getting my children to the Netherlands will make things difficult. Also when I can't get her to the Netherlands they can remarry her. But I have sworn that in all cases I will get her to Europe.

No offense and not to dismiss any genuine mutual feelings you both may have for eachother, but from the sound of the in-laws, this is some business transaction with conditions and penalities in place if you fail to meet them.

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6 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

Thank you for your reactions.

My wife wants to have intimacy but is afraid of her parents.

Yeah, but are you certain that she isn't just using that as pretex? 

Surley the both of you, if you really wanted to, could override her parents and do the permissable stuff... 

6 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

They are afraid that I'll fail to find a job in 2 years and then not to get her to the Netherlands. Also having intercourse will risk that my have could become pregnant. Getting my children to the Netherlands will make things difficult. Also when I can't get her to the Netherlands they can remarry her. But I have sworn that in all cases I will get her to Europe.

Wow that's really sad, they should've never let you marry her if they were going to have these negative doubts... Hope you can find a job brother... 

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8 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

She doesn't deny me intimacy

Yes, this is exactly what she is doing?

8 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

She is just afraid of her parents.

How old is she?

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I guess it's understandable that they might feel that you'll "ruin her reputation" and impregnate her without having a full on wedding etc. But what exactly will they do to you if they do find out you were intimate? Theres no way they'd find out anyway.

Also, instead of  members adding and creating tensions between the couple, why not just hell find a solution?

Edited by 2Timeless

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5 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

She is 21. Old enought to think of her self

Yes, she is just thinking of herself.

Sit her down and tell her how this can create a rift in your marriage, she is displeasing both her husband and Allah. She isn't entitled to basic maintenence if she is denying you the right. 

And have you heard of birth control? It could be useful in your situation.

Edited by starlight

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2 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

I guess it's understandable that they might feel that you'll "ruin her reputation" and impregnate her without having a full on wedding etc. But what exactly will they do to you if they do find out you were intimate? Theres no way they'd find out anyway.

Also, instead of  members adding and creating tensions between the couple, why not just hell find a solution?

Thanks brother,  that's exactly what I was thinking. But I didn't if my thinkings were at reason in the Islamic point of view. Thanks for your reaction

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

And this is exactly what she is doing,  thinking of herself.

Sit her down and tell her how this can create a rift in your marriage, she is displeasing both her husband and Allah. She isn't entitled to basic maintenence if she is denying you the right. 

And have you heard of birth control? It could be useful in your situation.

Yes I know everything about birth control. That is also what I'm going to use to delay pregnancy. I don't want children now. But I do want to have fun with her without thinking it's bad and against Islamic laws. But I do know now that it's my right to have intimacy. I'm going to make it clear to her. 

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3 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

Thanks brother,  that's exactly what I was thinking. But I didn't if my thinkings were at reason in the Islamic point of view. Thanks for your reaction

Just do whatever you want with your wife as long as it's consensualand with no pressure being felt by both parties. If you're an honest and good man, and you truly intend on getting your wife to Europe, then it's fine. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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Thank you all for your lovely and informative reactions. I have learned alot now. I'm going to have a chat with her ( and maybe her parents) about my rights according Islamic laws for having intimacy. Thank you all for clearing my mind and helping me out. It means the world for me. Thanks. 

Ps. Any more suggestions are welcome I will definitely read them !

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5 minutes ago, Jawad231 said:

Any more suggestions are welcome I will definitely read them !

I know it's your right over her, but don’t act like you're doing her a favour. Make sure she feels loved by you and that's why you want to develop your relationship with her. Inshallah it all goes well.

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You and your wife shouldn't live apart.

Is it impossible to get a job while you're a student? Supporting two people financially isn't very much more than supporting one person financially. How are you surviving now?

Basically, it seems her parents want plausible deniability for if you back out of the marriage, so that she won't been seen as "used" in her community. Be discreet and use reliable birth control, but no birth control and no amount of discretion is 100% effective.

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Guest Nani-Amma
7 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

Asalam aleykum dear brothers and sisters.

I have an Islamic question that fits my personal situation. I want to have more information about how to handle my situation.

It's as follows:

I live in the Netherlands  and my wife lives in Pakistan. We've been married for over a year now. 

In the Netherlands I study and in 2 years I will be finishing my study. Then I can work and get my wife to the Netherlands ( due to my stable income)

Each year I visit my wife in the summer during holidays. Then we will also sleep together. But the problem is that her parents don't allow me and her to have intercourse with each other. We are allowed to sleep together but we aren't allowed to have intercourse.

I don't know what to do. Because in Islamic point of view having intercourse is legal. It's even illegal to deny sexual feelings for each other while being married. On the other hand having intercourse will be against the will of her parents. Also I will break their trust. 

I hope you can help me out with this question.

Greetings,

Jawad

Be objective. And if you haven’t understood their purpose yet, you also seem to be a bit immature, actually very immature. 

I’m sure they don’t want you both to have babies yet. Basically what they aren’t telling you is, be intimate but don’t procreate.

Which makes sense, it’s hard, extremely hard to be a single parent, I’ve seen couples living far apart, with young moms left to cater for babies on their own, even with the family’s support, it’s tough, very tough.

And it’s also very understandable that young men, specially ethical young men like yourself, aren’t very good at using protection in the beginning, because of the lack of exposure to intimacy. 

Mistakes happen, that could result in a baby while their daughter is still living with them, and you missing in action to support her as a husband and for the baby as a father. Yes fathers have a huge role to play in helping out in daily and nightly chores involving babies.

If you take my advice, either be intimate without going anywhere near causing the baby making process, so you are on the safer side.

OR figure out somehow be totally intimate and don’t make babies, but like I said, mistakes happen (a lot) and you are back to the square one, being unfair to her and her parents, and the baby. 

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Guest itsamemario

She doesn't have to listen to them. You are her husband and your right over her Islamically is more than theirs. Are you sure they weren't just in it for the visa (sorry to say, but a lot of Easterners are that way)? Help her discreetly get birth control if possible, so you won't have to worry about any accidents. Don't let yourself be pushed around by these people. You need to show them that you're trying your best to get a job. If they can remarry her, you can remarry as well. You could remarry now since they won't even let her be your wife properly. Also if you have family back home, can you try to live with them with your wife when you visit? Or try staying in a hotel or anything like that. 

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You don’t have to listen, because it’s frankly no one’s business how a husband and wife want to be intimate. 

Take preventive measures. No one has to know. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Wha? They have no right to ask their children and their spouses NOT to have sexual activities. =/ Maybe you should figure out a way NOT to be away from your wife as well as keeping distance from your in-laws. If they think they can stop you from the one thing that separates a wife from everyone else, they'll be doing more ridiculous things. I only foresee more possible inconveniences like this until a better living arrangement is implemented.

Until then, remember that Allah is with the patient and make tons of dua'a. 

But man, seriously. It is ridiculous for them to ask of you both such a thing. It's the one thing that stops people from committing zina. =/ Authu billah.

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11 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

Asalam aleykum dear brothers and sisters.

I have an Islamic question that fits my personal situation. I want to have more information about how to handle my situation.

It's as follows:

I live in the Netherlands  and my wife lives in Pakistan. We've been married for over a year now. 

In the Netherlands I study and in 2 years I will be finishing my study. Then I can work and get my wife to the Netherlands ( due to my stable income)

Each year I visit my wife in the summer during holidays. Then we will also sleep together. But the problem is that her parents don't allow me and her to have intercourse with each other. We are allowed to sleep together but we aren't allowed to have intercourse.

I don't know what to do. Because in Islamic point of view having intercourse is legal. It's even illegal to deny sexual feelings for each other while being married. On the other hand having intercourse will be against the will of her parents. Also I will break their trust. 

I hope you can help me out with this question.

Greetings,

Jawad

Seriously? Her parents shouldn’t even care when you decide to have intercourse with her. That’s even against Islam; you’re supposed to have intercourse within 6 or 7 days . Your wife is meant to do something about it and convince her parents that its wrong

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10 hours ago, Jawad231 said:

Thank you all for your lovely and informative reactions. I have learned alot now. I'm going to have a chat with her ( and maybe her parents) about my rights according Islamic laws for having intimacy. Thank you all for clearing my mind and helping me out. It means the world for me. Thanks. 

Ps. Any more suggestions are welcome I will definitely read them !

If I were you I would do it (intercourse). Or get a motel or something in Pakistan and if they do not allow that do it anyways. Don’t be afraid of them your not doing anything haram if they leave you with no choice. I would use contraceptives like a condom till she comes to Netherlands (your choice though).

sorry for being blunt but ya. Honestly I feel like you can’t do anything these days lol. Mutah bad, this bad, that bad, even nikkah marriage lol. Some people are worried about about making gays accepted and whatever when we barely accept heterosexuality honestly. Just my thoughts now.

Edited by TryHard

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1 hour ago, TryHard said:

Mutah bad, this bad, that bad, even nikkah marriage lol. Some people are worried about about making gays accepted and whatever when we barely accept heterosexuality honestly.

Exactly. Add another step to make Halal difficult. 

1. Parent's don't think son/daughter is ready for marriage even when told so. Needs to be a certain level of financially settled.  -- practice self control

2. Find appropriate suitor which ticks all the boxes, age, culture, religion , looks, family, money, social status, some level of mental compatibility  -- practice self control

3. Get engaged.                 -- practice self control

4. Get married (finally!)                  --- STILL PRACTICE SELF CONTROL !!

 

@Jawad231  If a soul is destined to enter this dunya at a given time, no amount of planning from humans can stop it and if it isn't no amounts of effort can lead to a couple getting pregnant. What we can do however, if follow the commands of Allah meantime and trust Him to take care of our affairs and have hope in his mercy.I cannot get over the 'years long planning' of her parents. Can they see into the future?Are they willing for their daughter to be cursed by Angels of the heaven every night? May Allah bless you with a long prosperous happy life with your family but how can they guarantee their daughter will be happily shipped to Netherlands in two years times, ready to start a married life? Sometimes even the best laid plans fail so what we can at least do is go the right thing islamically in the present, this is what we have in our hands NOW. 

 

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@starlight can’t tell if you agree with me or are saying practice self control?

I mean of course discipline and self control is important but my thing is that shouldn’t stop  people from doing halal things like intercourse with his wife, mutah etc... 

Netherlands has nothing to do with his Islamic right if they are married it is his right for intercourse. In fact it’s haram to not have intercourse at least once every 4 months according to some Maraji with ones young wife.

brother @Jawad231 this means when you get to Pakistan you definitely have to fulfill your right (I.e ignore this talk of self control) 

for your situation specifically ask your marja fur guidance.

http://www.alhakeem.com/en/questions/928

Is it obligatory on the husband to have sex with his wife?

Answer : 

It is not permissible for the husband to abandon sexual intercourse with his permanent wife for more than four months. He must have sexual intercourse with her at least once every four months in the usual way to satisfy her sexual need. The same is obligatory with the temporary wife based on compulsory precaution.

Edited by TryHard

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40 minutes ago, TryHard said:

can’t tell if you agree with me or are saying practice self control?

I agree with you, completely.

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On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

I live in the Netherlands  and my wife lives in Pakistan. We've been married for over a year now.

Odd question, but she can't join you in the Netherlands, yet ? 

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

Each year I visit my wife in the summer during holidays. Then we will also sleep together.

So the two of you have had sex together?

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

But the problem is that her parents don't allow me and her to have intercourse with each other.

How exactly do they do that?

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

We are allowed to sleep together but we aren't allowed to have intercourse.

Again, how exactly do they keep the two of you from having sex? 

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

I don't know what to do.

Islamically, as long as you two are married and she is willing to have sex, then you have every right as a married couple to have sex whenever you wish to.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

On the other hand having intercourse will be against the will of her parents. Also I will break their trust. 

Ummm...having sex is a matter that only concerns the husband and wife. If they are both willing to having sex then it is not the parents' business at all.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jawad231 said:

I hope you can help me out with this question.

Well, honestly speaking this is a very problematic thing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that they are waiting for her Netherlands' Immigration to go through and then your wife will most probably try to divorce you.

In most legal systems, as well as the Sunni fiqhs (I have to look up what the Jafari fiqh states about this) if a couple does not have sex for a set period of time then a divorce can be filed for. If memory serves, Islamically if a couple does not have sex for 4 months and they are not having sex because one of the two is choosing not to have sex, then the other has the right to ask for a divorce. (Someone correct if I'm wrong on the timeframe on this please, I'm speaking from memory...but there is a time period that is stipulated from the perspective of denying your partner sex). This only applies to denying a partner sex...this doesn't apply in your situation when you are both in different countries. 

 

Edited by Akbar673

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6 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Odd question, but she can't join you in the Netherlands, yet ? 

So the two of you have had sex together?

How exactly do they do that?

Again, how exactly do they keep the two of you from having sex? 

Islamically, as long as you two are married and she is willing to have sex, then you have every right as a married couple to have sex whenever you wish to.

Ummm...having sex is a matter that only concerns the husband and wife. If they are both willing to having sex then it is not the parents' business at all.

Well, honestly speaking this is a very problematic thing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that they are waiting for her Netherlands' Immigration to go through and then your wife will most probably try to divorce you.

In most legal systems, as well as the Sunni fiqhs (I have to look up what the Jafari fiqh states about this) if a couple does not have sex for a set period of time then a divorce can be filed for. If memory serves, Islamically if a couple does not have sex for 4 months and they are not having sex because one of the two is choosing not to have sex, then the other has the right to ask for a divorce. (Someone correct if I'm wrong on the timeframe on this please, I'm speaking from memory...but there is a time period that is stipulated from the perspective of denying your partner sex). This only applies to denying a partner sex...this doesn't apply in your situation when you are both in different countries. 

 

Thanks for your reaction.

My wife can't join me in the Netherlands yet because I study. To have her in the Netherlands I muat have stable income, thus having a job.

We sleep together but we don't have intimacy. They trust us on this. Also they might ask their daughter if we had sex or not if I'm not around.

They think I'll fail them to get their daughter to the Netherlands. So as a precaution we aren't allowed to have sex with each other because then the girl doesn't get pregnant and is not seen as used in the community. 

I know their way of acting is against Islamic laws. They think I don't know anything according my Islamic laws in having sex while married. They think I will listen to them how matter. Luckly they're wrong. With the help of you guys I can convince them with evidence that I have every right over my wife and they can't get them from me. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has brought me in contact with her. Has engaged me with her. Has arranged me a marriage with her. Then the last step should not be out of the blue. I know that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is supporting me with this situation. I know that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) approves me with my choice to have intimacy, because I have done anything in an Halal way. Subhanallah

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