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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Tawhid can be Found in Christianity.

Tawhid can even be Found in religions that are mostly Shirk. It is not always a question of either or. It is all a matter of how much corruption has taken place in that religion.

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1 minute ago, Revert1963 said:

Tawhid can even be Found in religions that are mostly Shirk. It is not always a question of either or. It is all a matter of how much corruption has taken place in that religion.

My question is that why is we Unity isn’t that

when things are joined to make one 

instead of one 

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28 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Tawhid can be Found in Christianity.  

I mean to say that unity means joined together to be one that’s not Allah’s oneness then why do we say so ?

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Just now, Noor Taleb said:

My question is that why is we Unity isn’t that

when things are joined to make one 

instead of one 

Yes, I think it is apparently because it is so difficult for some to comprehend the one. Because the Christians view Jesus as God and the holy spirit as God and God as God. They have to explain how they are all the same and so they come up with trinity. To some of us it just sounds more complicated, but I think it is because they have to join tree different views on theology in one. It is like if one person emphasize that God is all powerful. Another emphasize that God is all merciful and the third emphasize that God is all knowledgeable.  In Islam these are names and attributes of God, but in other religions they tend to be separate entities that somehow has to be joined into a trinity or other construction in order to be understood as one.
I think one of the reasons why Christianity has complicated thing has to do with the politics of integrating Christianity into the Roman government. What Christians are suppose to believe was decided on a big church meeting (in Nicea) where the final judge was the Roman emperor. Before that, most Christians believed that Jesus was a Prophet or a human messiah. The Son of God use to be the title of Augustus, the founder of the Roman Empire. So the imperial administration had an incentive to promote a theology that would support the imperial tradition. So the trinity is really just a construction made by political intrigue. When the Church leaders was convinced there wasn't much that the common believer could do about it. I think however that the adoption of the trinity was one of the things that eventually led to the success of Islam, because the Christian that did not buy into it just converted to Islam.

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23 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

Yes, I think it is apparently because it is so difficult for some to comprehend the one. Because the Christians view Jesus as God and the holy spirit as God and God as God. They have to explain how they are all the same and so they come up with trinity. To some of us it just sounds more complicated, but I think it is because they have to join tree different views on theology in one. It is like if one person emphasize that God is all powerful. Another emphasize that God is all merciful and the third emphasize that God is all knowledgeable.  In Islam these are names and attributes of God, but in other religions they tend to be separate entities that somehow has to be joined into a trinity or other construction in order to be understood as one.
I think one of the reasons why Christianity has complicated thing has to do with the politics of integrating Christianity into the Roman government. What Christians are suppose to believe was decided on a big church meeting (in Nicea) where the final judge was the Roman emperor. Before that, most Christians believed that Jesus was a Prophet or a human messiah. The Son of God use to be the title of Augustus, the founder of the Roman Empire. So the imperial administration had an incentive to promote a theology that would support the imperial tradition. So the trinity is really just a construction made by political intrigue. When the Church leaders was convinced there wasn't much that the common believer could do about it. I think however that the adoption of the trinity was one of the things that eventually led to the success of Islam, because the Christian that did not buy into it just converted to Islam.

MashAllah very well explained so basically it’s different attributes of Allah that combined as a whole to One Allah ??? I’m still not able to get it 

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54 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

Yes, I think it is apparently because it is so difficult for some to comprehend the one. Because the Christians view Jesus as God and the holy spirit as God and God as God. They have to explain how they are all the same and so they come up with trinity. To some of us it just sounds more complicated, but I think it is because they have to join tree different views on theology in one. It is like if one person emphasize that God is all powerful. Another emphasize that God is all merciful and the third emphasize that God is all knowledgeable.  In Islam these are names and attributes of God, but in other religions they tend to be separate entities that somehow has to be joined into a trinity or other construction in order to be understood as one.
I think one of the reasons why Christianity has complicated thing has to do with the politics of integrating Christianity into the Roman government. What Christians are suppose to believe was decided on a big church meeting (in Nicea) where the final judge was the Roman emperor. Before that, most Christians believed that Jesus was a Prophet or a human messiah. The Son of God use to be the title of Augustus, the founder of the Roman Empire. So the imperial administration had an incentive to promote a theology that would support the imperial tradition. So the trinity is really just a construction made by political intrigue. When the Church leaders was convinced there wasn't much that the common believer could do about it. I think however that the adoption of the trinity was one of the things that eventually led to the success of Islam, because the Christian that did not buy into it just converted to Islam.

Totally agree with second paragraph :respect:

There is a lot of connection between pre-Christianity Roman belief with Christianity preset right now. 

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4 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

According to Islam no, 

Then what is Islamic type of unity 

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5 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

Then what is Islamic type of unity 

Islamic type of unity is that every type of goodness comes from its source that is Allah (عزّ وجلّ) as oppose to Christian belief that all goodness constitute one God which actually makes God dependent upon goodness and God is independent. In Islam, Allah is all goodness and He is independent.

Edited by Flying_Eagle

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11 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Islamic type of unity is that every type of goodness comes from its source that is Allah (عزّ وجلّ) as oppose to Christian belief that all goodness constitute one God which actually makes God dependent upon goodness and God is independent. In Islam, Allah is all goodness and He is independent.

The thing is that unity means pieces joined together to make one so how can Allah’s oneness be unity that’s the confusion because we all know what unity means 

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Just now, Noor Taleb said:

The thing is that unity means pieces joined together to make one so how can Allah’s oneness be unity that’s the confusion because we all know what unity means 

good approach but unity has many meanings in politics it means to being united, in mathematics it means one. So, I am using it in definition of number to define singleness of God.

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1 hour ago, Flying_Eagle said:

who ? :worried:

Christians 

Like unity has meanings not only 1 meaning 

and a meaning of unity is one ness

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16 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

Christians 

Like unity has meanings not only 1 meaning 

and a meaning of unity is one ness

Yah, they took it in the way it describes their belief but in our belief unity means one not constituting one group as defined by Christians.

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7 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Tawhid can even be Found in religions that are mostly Shirk. It is not always a question of either or. It is all a matter of how much corruption has taken place in that religion.

And Shirk can even be found amongst those adherents of religions that pride themselves on monotheism even though their Prophet (S) Warned them of subtle /hidden Shirk. 

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15 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

My question is that why is we Unity isn’t that

when things are joined to make one 

instead of one 

Unity as in Unicity, not Unity from separation. Read Sermon 186 from the Nahjul Balagha over several times, it has everything you need in there. 

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8 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

And Shirk can even be found amongst those adherents of religions that pride themselves on monotheism even though their Prophet (S) Warned them of subtle /hidden Shirk. 

Yes, this is completely true. In such as anthropomorphizing Allah or limiting Allah to the dualism of it's creation etc.

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16 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

Then what is Islamic type of unity 

In Islamic unity is what ever exists emnates from pure existance that is Allah.And all existance from the lowest relm of existence (universe ) to higher relm is in unity with Allah .Ie their is nothing out side Or exclusive from Allah.

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16 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

Then what is Islamic type of unity 

In Islamic unity is what ever exists emnates from pure existance that is Allah.And all existance from the lowest relm of existence (universe ) to higher relm is in unity with Allah .Ie their is nothing out side Or exclusive from Allah.

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20 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

Is Unity of Allah like the Christian unity ? 

There is nothing like Unity of Allah in Islamic teachings like Christianity and other polytheistic religions of world. 

Islam calls for Tawhid that is Oneness of Allah and not Unity of different things. If we believe that He is someone who came into existence or will come in future as unity of this or that, then we are on wrong path.. 

Oneness of Allah I.e. Tawheed is completely different from Unity as explained by Maula Ali (عليه السلام) himself in different sermons-

"He who assigns to Him (different) conditions does not believe in His Oneness, nor does he who likens Him grasp His reality. He who illustrates Him does not signify Him. He who points at Him and imagines Him does not mean Him. Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause). He works but not with the help of instruments. He fixes measures but not with the activity of thinking. He is rich but not by acquisition." Najhjul Balagha sermon No 186

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-186-he-who-assigns-him-different-conditions-does-not-believe

"The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute.

Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and whoever recognises His like regards Him two; and whoever regards Him as two recognises parts for Him; and whoever recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and whoever mistook Him pointed at Him; and whoever pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and whoever admitted limitations for Him numbered Him. Whoever said: ‘In what is He?’, held that He is contained; and whoever said: ‘On what is He?’, held He is not on something else." Nahjul balagha sermon No 1

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-1-praise-due-Allah-whose-worth-cannot-be-descrive

NOTE: Kindly go through above links and try to comprehend things written in those sermons of Maula Ali (عليه السلام).

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