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Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

Did Umme kalsoom bint e Ali (عليه السلام) marry Hazrat Umar

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As salam o ALikaum.
First and foremost lets mention refrences given by our Sunni people: (Useless to talk without their refrences)

Narration : No : 1

 

9536 – 1 – علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، وحماد، عن زرارة، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) في تزويج أم كلثوم فقال: إن ذلك فرج غصبناه

Translation: Ali ibn Ibrahim—from his father—from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr—from Hisham ibn Salim and Hammad—from Zurarah, who narrates that:

“Abu Abdullah ((عليه السلام)) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom: “That was the honor that we were forced to give.

Source: Furoo al-Kafi, vol.5, p.347 or Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 1

Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good) in Mir’aat Al-Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a Sahih Sanad in Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with Umar, pg. 30 & in Mahaadiraat fee Al-Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

Narration : no : 2

 

محمد بن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: لما خطب إليه قال له أمير المؤمنين: إنها صبية قال: فلقى العباس فقال له: مالي أبي بأس؟ قال: وماذاك؟ قال: خطبت إلى ابن اخيك فردني أما والله لاعورن زمزم(4) ولا أدع لكم مكرمة إلا هدمتهاو لاقيمن عليه شاهدين بأنه سرق ولاقطعن يمينه فأتاه العباس فأخبره وسأله أن يجعل الامر إليه فجعله إليه

 

Translation: Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr—Hisham ibn Salim, who narrates that—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said:

“When [Umar] proposed to Amir al-Mu’minin, he said, ‘She is a child.’ Then he [Umar] met Abbas and asked him, ‘What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?’ Abbas asked, ‘Why?’ Umar replied, ‘I asked your nephew for his daughter’s hand in marriage, and he rejected me. Oh, I swear by Allah, I will fill the well of Zamzam with Earth, I will destroy every honor that you have, and I will set up two witnesses to testify that he stole, that I may cut off his right hand.’ Abbas thereupon came to Ali and informed him of what had transpired. He asked Ali to put the matter in his hands, and Ali complied.

Source: Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117 or Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 2

Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good) in Mir’aat Al-Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a Sahih Sanad in Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with Umar, pg. 28 & in Mahaadiraat fee Al-Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696



Narration : No : 3

 

1) (10902 1) حميد بن زياد، عن ابن سماعة، عن محمد بن زياد، عن عبدالله بن سنان، ومعاوية ابن عمار، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: سألته عن المرأة المتوفى عنها زوجها أتعتد في بيتها أو حيث شاءت؟ قال: بل حيث شاءت، إن عليا عليه السلام لما توفي عمر أتى أم كلثوم فانطلق بها إلى بيته

 

Translation: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq:

“I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.

Source: Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117 or Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 2

Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Sahih (Authentic) in Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 199

Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-Sahih(Reliable like a Sahih (hadeeth)) in Rawdah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89


 

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْقُمِّيِّ عَنِ الْقَدَّاحِ عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ ع قَالَ مَاتَتْ أُمُّ كُلْثُومٍ بِنْتُ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ ابْنُهَا زَيْدُ بْنُ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ فِي سَاعَةٍ وَاحِدَةٍ لَا يُدْرَى أَيُّهُمَا هَلَكَ قَبْلُ فَلَمْ يُوَرِّثْ أَحَدَهُمَا مِنَ الْآخَرِ وَ صَلَّى عَلَيْهِمَا جَمِيعاً

“Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: ‘Umm Kulthoom bint Ali and her son Zayd bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit from one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time.”

Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Majhool (Unknown) in Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382

Note: This narration has only one majhool narrator.

Narration 2:

I was informed by Anas ibn ‘Iyad al-Laythi, who reports on the authority of Jafar ibn Muhammad [as-Sadiq], and he from his father [Muhammad al-Baqir] that—

Umar ibn al-Khattab asked Ali ibn Abi Talib for the hand of Umm Kulthoom in marriage. Ali said, “I had kept my daughters for the sons of Jafar.” Umar said, “Marry her to me, O Abul Hasan, for by Allah,there is no man on the face of the Earth who seeks to achieve through her good companionship that which I seek to achieve.” Ali said, “I have done so.”

Then Umar came to the Muhajirun between the grave [of Rasool-Allah] and the pulpit. They—Ali, Uthman, Zubayr, Talhah and Abd ar-Rahman—used to sit there, and whenever a matter used to arrive from the frontiers, Umar used to come to them there and consult with them. He came to them and said, “Congratulate me.” They congratulated him, and asked, “With whom are we congratulating you, O Amir al-Mu’minin?” He replied, “With the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib.”

(source: Ibn Sa‘d in his work “at-Tabaqat al-Kubra”, vol.8, p.338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, “Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah”, Beirut 1990)

Now lets check the sanad:

The five levels of transmission of the first Shia Hadith in Al-Kafi are:

NARRATION 1:

1. Ali ibn Ibrahim who narrated from
2. Ibrahim ibn Hashim al-Qummi who narrated from
3. Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr who narrated from
4. Hisham ibn Salim and Hammad who narrated from
5. Zurarah

al-Kulayni received the reports from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr through his teacher ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashim al-Qummi, who is his source for about one third of the material in al-Kafi. ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim is the author of an early Tafsir of the Shi‘ah, and is highly regarded by Shi‘I rijal critics such as an-Najashi and Ibn Mutahhar, who declare him to be “thiqatun fil hadith, thabt, mu’tamad, sahih al-madhhab” (reliable in hadith transmission, reliable dependable, correct in belief.) (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat vol. 1 p. 545)

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi reports from his father Ibrahim ibn Hashim al-Qummi. He is reputed to have been the first to spread the hadith of the Shi‘ah from Kufah to Qom. Reports via him abound in al-Kafi, through his son. He has been generally accepted by the Shi‘ah as a reliable narrator. He is even mentioned by Abu Ja‘far at-Tusi as having met the 9th Imam. (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat vol. 1 p. 38) His reliability as a narrator is attested to in a contemporary work on the authority of his son, Ali ibn Ibrahim, Ibn Tawus and al-‘Allamah al-Hilli. (Abu Talib at-Tajlil at-Tabrizi, Mu‘jam ath-Thiqat, p. 5)

Ibrahim ibn Hashim al-Qummi reports on the authority of Muhammad ibn Abi ‘Umayr. This Ibn Abi ‘Umayr is one of the most reliable Shi‘I narrators ever. Abu Ja‘far at-Tusi says of him: “kana min awthaq an-nas” (he was of the most reliable of people). (al-Fihrist p. 169) More importantly, he was of the elect group of Shi‘I narrators called the Ashab al-Ijma‘ (Men of the Consensus). What this means is that when the chain of narration is proven authentic up to one of these men, the rest of the chain up to the Imam may automatically be assumed to be authentic too. (See the details of this consensus in al-Mamaqani, Miqbas al-Hidayah fi ‘Ilm ad-Dirayah, vol. 2 pp. 171-208) The authenticity of this narration is therefore proven on grounds of this consensus.

Hisham ibn Salim is credited with having been a student of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. His reliability as a transmitter of hadith is attested to by the emphatic statement of al-’Allamah and an-Najashi: “thiqatun thiqah” (reliable, and once again reliable). (Jami’ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 315)

AND I asume u know who zurarah was?

NARRATION 3:

al-Kulayni reports this narration from his teacher Humayd ibn Ziyad. This Humayd is graded by the Shi‘I rijal critics as “‘alim jalil al-qadr, wasi‘ al-‘ilm, kathir at-tasnif, thiqah” (a learned scholar, of great status, wide knowledge, a prolific author, reliable) (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 284)

Ibn Sama‘ah is properly known as al-Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Sama‘ah. He was one of the foremost Shi‘I fuqaha of Kufah, and is described as “kathir al-hadith, faqihun thiqah” (a prolific narrator of hadith, a jurist, reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 225)

Muhammad ibn Ziyad is properly known as Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn Ziyad al-‘Attar. He is described as “thiqah” (reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 91)

‘Abdullah ibn Sinan was an eminent Imami Shi‘I of Kufah about whom it is stated: “thiqatun min ashabina, la yut‘anu ‘alayhi fi shay’” (one of our reliable associates against whom no criticism whatsoever can be levelled). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 487)

Mu‘awiyah ibn ‘Ammar was an eminent and leading Shi‘I narrator of Kufah who narrates from Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq. His Shi‘I biographers have documented about him that he was “wajhan min ashabina muqaddaman, kabir ash-shan, azim al-mahall, thiqah” (a leading figure amongst our associates, pre-eminent, great in status, exalted in position, reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 239)

The opinions of the Shi‘I critics of hadith regarding the narrators of this report as reproduced here unequivocally indicate that what we have here is a authetic report.

NARRATION 4:

al-Kulayni recorded this report on the authority of his several of his teachers, one of whom is Muhammad ibn Yahya al‘Attar al-Qummi. He was regarded as “shaykhu ashabina fi zamanihi, thiqah, ‘ayn, kathir al-hadith” (the shaykh of our associates in his time, reliable, an outstanding personality, a prolific narrator of hadith). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 213)

Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Isa al-Qummi was “shaykh al-Qummiyyin, wa-wajhuhum, wa-faqihuhum, ghayra mudafa‘” (the shaykh of the people of Qom, and their undisputed leader and jurist). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 69) Abu Ja‘far at-Tusi and al-‘Allamah al-Hilli have unequivocally declared him “thiqah” (reliable). (ar-Rijal p. 366; and al-Khulasah p. 13)

al-Husayn ibn Sa‘id is described as “‘ayn, jalil al-qadr” (an outstanding personality of great stature) and”thiqah” (reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 241)

an-Nadr ibn Suwayd is rated as “Kufi,thiqah, sahih al-hadith” (a reliable Kufan who transmits authentic hadith). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 292)

Hisham ibn Salim is credited with having been a student of Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq. His reliability as a transmitter of hadith is attested to by the emphatic statement of al-‘Allamah and an-Najashi: “thiqatun thiqah” (reliable, and once again reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 2 p. 315)

Sulayman ibn Khalid is mentioned as having been a student of Imam al-Baqir. His death is recorded to have caused Imam Ja‘far extreme grief. He is universally acclaimed as “thiqah” (reliable). (Jami‘ ar-Ruwat, vol. 1 p. 378)

 



Our Sunni brothers and sisters then say, inspite of all these authentic narrations Shia people only make excuses because they have no answer to these and they will simply call all these narrations fabricated just because they have no other choice.

My answers begin here(For Shia brothers and sisters):

1st Answer:


Nasbis definately derive all possible ways to degrade ahlebait (عليه السلام).
Anyone after in-depth analysis of personality of Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) and fair minded person, know that saying Umar forcefully took Syeda Umme Kalsoom bint e Ali (عليه السلام) is a total mess and fabricated hadith as This totally goes against the personality of Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام). 1st and 2nd narration mentioning the Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) actaully got scared of Umar threats and handed over his daughter to Hazrat Umar? (Nauzobillah min zalik)  -  Such are the thoughts of these narrow minded nasbis  -  Thereore this hadith isn't at all acceptable and is a totally fabricated hadith.

Sunni ans: Again a bunch of excuses? crying rafidih? Ali got scared? etc nauzobillah.

Lets settle this from Sihaah Sita: ( Who was Ali? )


 

You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron (Harun) was in relation to Moses but with (this explicit difference) that there is no Prophet after me. Sa'd said: I had an earnest desire to hear it directly from Sa'd, so I met him and narrated to him what (his son) Amir had narrated to me, whereupon he said: Yes, I did hear it. I said: Did you hear it yourself? Thereupon he placed his fingers upon his ears and said: Yes, and if not, let both my ears become deaf.
 
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى التَّمِيمِيُّ، وَأَبُو جَعْفَرٍ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الصَّبَّاحِ وَعُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ الْقَوَارِيرِيُّ وَسُرَيْجُ بْنُ يُونُسَ كُلُّهُمْ عَنْ يُوسُفَ الْمَاجِشُونِ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لاِبْنِ الصَّبَّاحِ - حَدَّثَنَا يُوسُفُ، أَبُو سَلَمَةَ الْمَاجِشُونُ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُنْكَدِرِ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدِ، بْنِ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لِعَلِيٍّ ‏ "‏ أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سَعِيدٌ فَأَحْبَبْتُ أَنْ أُشَافِهَ بِهَا سَعْدًا فَلَقِيتُ سَعْدًا فَحَدَّثْتُهُ بِمَا حَدَّثَنِي عَامِرٌ فَقَالَ أَنَا سَمِعْتُهُ ‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ آنْتَ سَمِعْتَهُ فَوَضَعَ إِصْبَعَيْهِ عَلَى أُذُنَيْهِ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ وَإِلاَّ فَاسْتَكَّتَا ‏.‏
Reference  : Sahih Muslim 2404 a
In-book reference  : Book 44, Hadith 47
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Book 31, Hadith 5913

Now Who was Hazrat Harun (عليه السلام) (Relation): Qur'an
 

"And give me a Minister from my family, (Surah Ta Ha, 29)

"Aaron, my brother; (Surah Ta Ha, 30)

"Add to my strength through him, (Surah Ta Ha, 31)

"And make him share my task: (Surah Ta Ha, 32)

as per hadith same relation exists between Muhamamd (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ali (عليه السلام). Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was strengthened trough Ali (عليه السلام).

How can one Add to strenght of peophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when gets scared by threats of people or (nauzobillah I can’t write without 100 istigfaars ) such person would give is daughter when threatened ?
You nasbis don’t only make fun of Ali but also indirectly dis respect relation between moses and Harun (عليه السلام)!

2nd Answer:


Narration no 3 Arabic version doesn't mentions Kulsoom bint e Ali rather only Umm e Kalsoom is written which is view of Shias . Only umme e kalsoom that came in house of Ali after death of Hazrat Abu Bakr was his daughter.
And that probably points out the difference. hadith says where should iddah be spent? in her own house or any where? Imam Jaffer e Sadiq says " anywhere she wants" in contrast to her own house and gives example of Umme kalsoom comming to house of Ali that indicates that wasn't her own house! while if Ali (عليه السلام) took his daughter to his own house, then how come this example fit for "spending iddah where ever she wants as this tense is in contrast with own house in hadith"? becuase according to narration from our books, daughter can inherit and things that one can inherit are his/her own things !

 

Maysarah: I he asked Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) about what a woman inherits. The Imam replied: ‘They will get the value of the bricks, the building, the wood and the bamboo. As for the land and the fixed property, they will get no inheritance from that’. Maysarah said: ‘What about daughters?’ He (عليه السلام) replied: The daughters shall inherit.’ Maysarah said: ‘How come they (widow) don’t inherit (land or building) although their share is 1/8 of the inheritance and the (daughters’) share is 1/4 ?’ He replied: ‘Because she is not a blood relative to inherit but she is relative in law. And this (widow not inheriting land) is because that woman might marry again and bring her husband or her sons from other husband (in the land/house) which would cause rivalry with others living in their house.’ 
 Wasail al-Shia, Volume 26 pages 206-207

The same Hadith is also recorded in Al- Kafi, Volume 7 page 130, Tahdib al-Ahkam, Volume 9 page 299 and Al-Istibsar, Volume 4 page 153. It has also been recorded with a different chain in Ilal al-Sharai, Volume 2 page 471 and Min la Yahdruhu al-Faqih, Volume 4 page 347 and the reviser of the book Min la Yahdruhu al-Faqih, Sheikh Ali Akbar Ghafari declared this tradition as Sahih in the footnote.

Moreover we read the following tradition in Min la Yahdruhu al-Faqih, Volume 4 page 261 that has been declared Sahih by Sayyed Rohani in Fiqh al-Sadiq, Volume 24 page 253:

Zurara narrated that Abi Jaffar (عليه السلام) was asked about a man who died and left a daughter, sister and mother. He replied: ‘The daughter will inherit the whole property, the sister and mother has no share in it.’ 
This tradition is also been recorded with another chain in al-Kafi, Volume 7 page 87 and has been declared Sahih by Allamah Majleii in Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 23 page 133.

On the same page of Min la Yahdruhu al-Faqih we read another tradition that has also been declared Sahih by Sayyed Rohani:

(Qasim bin Hussain) al-Bezanti narrated that he said: ‘I asked the second Abi Jaffar (عليه السلام) and said: ‘May I be sacrificed for you, what if a man died and left a daughter and uncles’. He replied: ‘The property is for the daughter.’


3rd Answer:


In next narration we read that Umme kalsoom bint e Ali and her son zayd died at same time.

look at these nawasib, first trying to prove Ali (عليه السلام) took his daughter after hazrat Umars death to his own house then trying to prove she died with her son at same time 
Can' these people stick to one thing? For my Shia brothers and sisters just look how fabricated and twisted this argument is!

Even they mention one narrator is majhool, but okay, if she died along with her son, then how come her presence is mention in Karbala , and even at shahadat of Imam Hassan (عليه السلام)?


4th Answer:

In next narration Umar insisted and Imam Ali said I have kept them for jafer sons. Point to be higlighted that mola Ali (عليه السلام) said he has kept them for jaffers sons and then progress ahdith makes and Umar sys this and that an dImam Ali said ok I have agreed.

Now this hadith his a mixture of fabrication.

1st point:
Why had Imam Ali (عليه السلام) reserved her daughters for jaffer (عليه السلام) sons? was his personal idea or not? if it was his peronal idea then it could have changed. and thats fair. I agree with Sunnis standards that according to them his personal idea may change and thats fair argument.

now lets see if this was his personal idea or not:

we Read in man la yahzuruhu AL Faqih
Chapter of Nikah:

Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said while looking at Ali and Jaffar: "Our daughters are for our sons and our sons are for our daughters"


Now that wasn't Mola Ali's personal idea , it was hukam of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). therefore making argument that Ali can change his personal idea is rendered null and void! as this wasnt his personal idea.
Now In Qur'an we read,

Obey Allah and Obey messenger. (Do you really need reference for that? I'm sure you don't)
We read in mustadrak lil Hakim 
Hadith 4628

Bibi Umme salma testifies that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said Ali is with Qur'an and Qur'an is with Ali And they will not seperate from each other and will meet me at hawd

Now Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) only speaks when something is revealed onot him according to Qur'an and if we believe in Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), then Qur'an and Ali cannot seperate from each other means Ali cannot disobey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) then how come Ali dis obeyed Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) by rejecting his hadith and marrying his daughter to Umar.
That is indeed doubt in wording of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) which I believe is kufr. we have to accept everything said by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

(Ali is with Qur'an and Qur'an is with Ali is hadith common between Shia-Sunni)


and Finally my 5th answer, I am not going to write it xD enjoy these ok.

Mustadrak scan attached!

64660086_1182473631924321_30651939916506
 

We read in Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349 that Umar acknowledged the following to Imam ‘Ali (as):

Umar’s Words:
When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said:” I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him).” Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadhrat ‘Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to ‘Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said:” We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity.” So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.  (Sunnis say same hadith mentions Ali acknowledged supriority of Umar above him and present other narrations from their books to show love between Umar and Ali PLEASE GROW UP! YOUR BOOKS ARE NOT HUJJAH ON US NEITHER ARE YOUR HADITHS. CHILDISH DEBATERS PRESENT HADITH IN AUTHENTIC TO OUR STANDARDS while we already proved that testimony of most core person Umar ibn khittab shows that he knew from inside that Ali (عليه السلام) considered him liar, dis honest and trechearaous.the one who youa re defending himself is admiting Ali considers him liar dishonest but your fabrication level is definatley different by attributing this to Ali that he considers uamr aobve himsefl. if Ali considered Umar great and honest why did he come to claim Fadak even after listening to hadith of no inheritencae of Prophets? If I consider someone lair dis honest, I would think of marrying my daughter to such a guy. no rational person can think same about Ali (عليه السلام))

Edited by Hassan-
Fixed translation

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In the book of “al-Muntāẓam fī Tārīkḫ al-Mulūk Wā-al-Umām,” by Iʿbn al-Jāwzī, volume 4, page 237.

Omar placed his hand on her leg, and uncovered it. She told him: “Do you do that? Only if you were not “the commander of the believers,” I would’ve broke your nose!” then she exited, and went to her father, and told him: “You sent me to an evil old man!” [...]

imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-dqk-AZi-QLq50-

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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3 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

In the book of “al-Muntāẓam Fī Tārīkḫ al-Mulūk Wā-al-Umām,” by Iʿbn al-Jāwzī, volume 4, page 237.

Omar placed his hand on her leg, and uncovered it. She told him: “Do you do that? Only if you were not “the commander of the believers,” I would've broke your nose!” then she exited, and went to her father, and told him: “Did you send me to this bad old man?” [...]

imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-dqk-AZi-QLq50-

I wonder what type of content these people believe in.

Such a mess. 

As Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) already have said it in Manla yahzaral faqih so Ali (عليه السلام) cannot dis obey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Ali is with Qur'an and Qur'an is with Ali and both can never seperate from each other.

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There are three views about the marriage of Umar and Umme Kulsum:

1.  The marriage did occur according to most Sunni sources and some Shia sources

2.  The marriage did not occur as per Shia scholars view like Sheikh Mufeed,

3.   Some scholars mentioned that the Umm Kulthum who married 'Umar was the daughter of Abu Bakr, rather than Imam 'Ali (a). A Sunni scholar, al-Nawawi, has accepted this account in his book, Tahdhib al-asma'.[26

In a footnote on the book, Ihqaq al-haqq, Ayatollah Mar'ashi Najafi accepts this account.

Umm Kulthum, to his own house, and then she was married to 'Umar. Since she was Imam 'Ali (a)'s step-daughter, some people mistook her to be Imam 'Ali (a)'s daughter, rather than Abu Bakr's.[2

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Marriage_of_Umm_Kulthum_with_'Umar_b._al-Khattab

https://Umar-ibn-khattab.blogspot.com/2013/12/who-is-umm-kulsoom-research.html

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For arguments sake let's say yes. But this in no way shows Imam Ali support of Umar. What it does show is that Umar was not classed outside of Islam (kafir)  Islamically if a suitable proposal comes you should accept. By "Suitable" I mean criteria from Qur'an and hadith which is not that strict.

Remember Imam Ali follows Islam perfectly.

Edited by Warilla

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On 7/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, Warilla said:

For arguments sake let's say yes. But this in no way shows Imam Ali support of Umar. What it does show is that Umar was not classed outside of Islam (kafir)  Islamically if a suitable proposal comes you should accept. By "Suitable" I mean criteria from Qur'an and hadith which is not that strict.

Remember Imam Ali follows Islam perfectly.

lolz, Umm-e-Kulsoom that married to Hazrat Umer, died in his life. While Umm-e-Kulsoom sister of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) died after Karabla. 

One of the wife of Prophet PBUHHP name was Ummul Momineen Zaynab (عليه السلام), and his grand-daughter name was also Zaynab. so how do you think about that.

:hahaha:

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On 6/19/2019 at 6:15 PM, Simon the Canaanite said:

In the book of “al-Muntāẓam fī Tārīkḫ al-Mulūk Wā-al-Umām,” by Iʿbn al-Jāwzī, volume 4, page 237.

Omar placed his hand on her leg, and uncovered it. She told him: “Do you do that? Only if you were not “the commander of the believers,” I would’ve broke your nose!” then she exited, and went to her father, and told him: “You sent me to an evil old man!” [...]

imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-dqk-AZi-QLq50-

After I read this, I personally believe that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) would never give his daughter to someone like Umar. Think about it, Amir al Mo'mineen (عليه السلام) would give his own daughter to a old evil man like him? 

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