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In the Name of God بسم الله
fawad221

I am a Sunni looking for the truth

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14 hours ago, Flying_Eagle said:

We have disagreement with Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Abu Bakar, because we have found in our books and in books of our brothers that:

1. Hazrat Umer blasphemed Prophet pbuhhp by saying that He (PBUHHP) has lost his mind and refused to give him ink and paper on death bed.

2. Hazrat Umer burnt House of Daighter of Prophet (pbuhhp).

3. Hazrat Abu Bakar took away Garden of Fidak from Syeda Fatima given to her by her father Prophet Muhammad (pbuhhp).

These are few truths. And still there are many.

In these days, where there are many fabricating stuff, it would be inappropriate if you believe in youtube videos, unless you have a book in which Ayotullah Fadalullah or other Ayotullahs have stated a fact which is against other ulemas or there should be direct video. Many Ulemas on youtube say that they have not said that such and such thing is illegal but people in countries make false reports that Ayotullahs and Mujtahid has said this and this act is illegal.

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@Mortadakerim

Nevertheless, Hazrat Abu bakar did took away Fadak from Lady Fatima Zehra (عليه السلام) which was given to her by her father. And, for that Hazrat Abu bakar said that I have heard Prophet PBUHHP saying: "Prophets do not leave wealth as inheritance". While his own daughter lady Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) lived in the house provided by Prophet PBUHHP and Hazrat Fatima Zahra (عليه السلام) proved from Qur'an that Hazrat Zakariya prayed for a son to inherit him. 

It looked as if Hazrat Abu bakar claimed as if knew more than Hazrat Fatima (عليه السلام). While his own daughters house reject his such claim. That is not difficult to see in books brother. We do not have anything against Hazrat Abu bakar because of our personal interest, our rejection is because of justice and for Allah. 

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24 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Where is it said that Umar  indeed burned the house and crushed the door on Fatima (عليه السلام)?

Salam he didn't deny it but says he can't understand why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) didn't do any reaction also it verified by Sunni sources too 

 

26 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Where is it said that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was forced to say nothing?

also in Sunni sources it verified that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) asked Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to doesn't say nothing & remains silent.

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9 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

@Mortadakerim

Nevertheless, Hazrat Abu bakar did took away Fadak from Lady Fatima Zehra (عليه السلام) which was given to her by her father. And, for that Hazrat Abu bakar said that I have heard Prophet PBUHHP saying: "Prophets do not leave wealth as inheritance". While his own daughter lady Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) lived in the house provided by Prophet PBUHHP and Hazrat Fatima Zahra (عليه السلام) proved from Qur'an that Hazrat Zakariya prayed for a son to inherit him. 

It looked as if Hazrat Abu bakar claimed as if knew more than Hazrat Fatima (عليه السلام). While his own daughters house reject his such claim. That is not difficult to see in books brother. We do not have anything against Hazrat Abu bakar because of our personal interest, our rejection is because of justice and for Allah. 

Don’t forget in Qur'an 27:16, Prophet Solomon ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) inherited from his father Prophet David ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), but sadly our brothers ahlul sunna reject this. 

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam he didn't deny it but says he can't understand why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) didn't do any reaction also it verified by Sunni sources too 

  

also in Sunni sources it verified that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) asked Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to doesn't say nothing & remains silent.

Let us leave that aspect, there are many things other than these which were contrary to Prophet (PBUHHP). To name those:

1. Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Abu bakar took politics to be necessary than funeral of Prophet PBUHHP. while even in today's world, whole country mourns for death of kings and queen and then think about politics, until then a country's political sphere is silent.

2. Why was not Imam Ali invited to Saqifa ? It seems that people thought Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to be stumbling block for them while when they became caliph, they even visited his house for minute jurisprudential issues but for this important matter Shaikyeen did not even call him. lolz.

3. There was shura for Hazrat Abu bakar, but there was no shura for Hazrat Umer ? Where was Islam then?

4. On the death bed, Prophet (PBUHHP) said all Ashab to go under Usama bin Zayd to fight Romans except Imam Ali (عليه السلام), but all remained in Medina. lolz

5. Hazrat Umer not only blasphemed Prophet PBUHHP by calling him not in his senses, but also called Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as "greedy" as said by Ibn-al-abil Hadeed a Sunni scholar. 

I said there are still many things. and there are still many more.

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12 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam he didn't deny it but says he can't understand why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) didn't do any reaction also it verified by Sunni sources too 

About which vid are you talking. My reply you quoted wasn't on the vid of Fadlallah.

Nevertheless, if Twelvers believe that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was commanded to stay passive then what's so hard to understand?

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

About which vid are you talking. My reply you quoted wasn't on the vid of Fadlallah.

all of your above posts were about him & now you say didn't refer to him that you quoted his video too. :ko:

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , it depends on Zaidi branches that Jarudis that are forming majority of Houthies have same idea like as twelvers  about three caliphs  

Very true they are closest to 12er but even then the scholars use a cautious/ silent approach.

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14 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

also in Sunni sources it verified that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) asked Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to doesn't say nothing & remains silent.

I am still waiting for it. It was definitely not in the posted video.

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2 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

all of your above posts were about him & now you say didn't refer to him that you quoted his video too. :ko:

There was another vid as well. Its poster claimed that in it was said that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was commanded to say nothing.

Edited by Faruk

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MUBAHELA between Shia and Sunni Must watch, English sub subhanallah

حقائق مغيبة  : حقائق مغيبة : حقيقة واقعة الهجوم على دار الزهراء (ع)

in this series he talks & shows about it from just Sunni books also he was a Sunni too but his videos doesn't has eng subtitle 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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28 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Nevertheless, Hazrat Abu bakar did took away Fadak from Lady Fatima Zehra (عليه السلام) which was given to her by her father.

Salam,

I don’t know much about Islam at all and I just showed that Ayatollah Fadlallah (RahimehuAllah) found it strange. I am seeking truth and adalat a sahaba is one of the main topics. Imam Ali showed respect in some way for the first 2 caliphs, but then there are also narrations where our Imams curse them. The Qur'an speaks very good about the Muhajireen and the Ansar, but that is in general so I am not sure. Let’s do Du’a to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for guidance in this matter

ربنا زدنا علما

ws/wrb

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Just now, Mortadakerim said:

Salam,

I don’t know much about Islam at all and I just showed that Ayatollah Fadlallah (RahimehuAllah) found it strange. I am seeking truth and adalat a sahaba is one of the main topics. Imam Ali showed respect in some way for the first 2 caliphs, but then there are also narrations where our Imams curse them. The Qur'an speaks very good about the Muhajireen and the Ansar, but that is in general so I am not sure. Let’s do Du’a to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for guidance in this matter

ربنا زدنا علما

ws/wrb

Ayotullah Fadallulah is an Alim and Mujtahid and he is human. He took an approach according to his own logic and rationality. And, If he were alive, I would have asked him as to did not Yazeed ibn Muwawiya read poetry in the honor of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and was not Muwawiya aware about caliphate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and what about Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) who fought in Battle of Jamal ?

If the above men and woman could venture to fight against Ahlebait (عليه السلام) how do you doubt the humans before them being incapable of not fighting ahlebait (عليه السلام) ? 

If even we accept that Ayotullah Fadallah is right in his reasoning, what strengthened Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) to fight in Jamal against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and what incidents encouraged Muwawiya to fight against Imam Ali (عليه السلام). It seems that hatred of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) was being brewed throughout decades. And, if you trace to what family Hazrat Ayesha and Muwviya belongs, you would know from which house hatred came. 

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15 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

MUBAHELA between Shia and Sunni Must watch, English sub subhanallah

 

Look brother,

As there is too much diffirence of opinion and the sources differ too much from sect too sect the most plausible to me is the following stance. 

If Umar (رضي الله عنه) really attacked Fatima (عليه السلام) then Imam Ali (KW) should not, would not and could not stay silent. 

The 'He was forced' or 'was commanded to do so' are just arguments invented later on to make the events fit in a certain creedal belief.

Edited by Faruk

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32 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

also in Sunni sources it verified that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) asked Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to doesn't say nothing & remains silent.

I think seyada Fatima’s asking you something means you do it. She is our mother and we love her. I don’t think Prophet Muhammad said that Ali (عليه السلام) can’t defend his wife, but he was not allowed to make problems. So if Fatima (sa) asks Umar to leave, he should. And if Fatima were to be attacked, Ali would then be defending her. The Prophet did not command him not to defend his daughter. This is why Sayed Fadlallah doubted that this happened.

But then again I am no one to deny anything. I am a layman.

ws/wrb

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3 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Look brother,

As there is too much diffirence of opinion and the sources differ too much from sect too sect the most plausible to me is the following stance. 

If Umar (رضي الله عنه) really attacked Fatima (عليه السلام) then Imam Ali (KW) should not, would not and could not stay silent. 

The 'He was forced' or 'was commanded to do so' are just arguments to make the claimed events in line with ones creed.

There are some hadith saying that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) came out with sword and some hadith saying that he was shackled to pay allegiance. 

The question is if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asks a Momin to stay silent for a reason and do not commit what is obligatory according to situation what is obligatory for a Momin, order of Allah or Obligatory action ?

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asked Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) that you are to stay 30 nights but on 30th night said him, stay for 10 more. So, whether you take Moses promise to Bani Israel to be back in 30 days was wrong done and amount to a sin, or such a thing was changed by God and it was not a sin but a change or one thing by greater thing ?

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19 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

There are some hadith saying that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) came out with sword and some hadith saying that he was shackled to pay allegiance. 

The question is if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asks a Momin to stay silent for a reason and do not commit what is obligatory according to situation what is obligatory for a Momin, order of Allah or Obligatory action ?

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asked Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) that you are to stay 30 nights but on 30th night said him, stay for 10 more. So, whether you take Moses promise to Bani Israel to be back in 30 days was wrong done and amount to a sin, or such a thing was changed by God and it was not a sin but a change or one thing by greater thing ?

To me there are no matters more straight forward, explicit and openly established than the succession as leadership is a matter tantamount to right guidance.

If one tries to cover this in shady mysteries, secret narrations and complicated arguments as to why and why not someone did not act in a clear way then the majority is not to be blamed.

Islam was revealed to erase all questions. Not to raise questions and make people wonder because things were not clear.

I do believe that leadership should be a matter of clarity just as Islam itself. Not of mysteries and hidden intentions so that the people later on have no argument as to why and why not they followed someone.

Edited by Faruk

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1 minute ago, Faruk said:

To me there are no matters more straight forward, explicit and openly established than the succession as leadership is a matter tantamount to right guidance.

If one tries to cover this in shady mysteries, secret narrations and complicated arguments as to why and why not someone did not act in a clear way then the majority is not to be blamed.

I am not being shady, I am putting questions....your books and our books confirm that doors were burnt, and Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) died in Six months. You say that Ayotullah Fadallah raised question on the incident and did not accept it as he thought how could Imam Ali (عليه السلام) not take obligatory action. I put you in evidence verse from Qur'an where Hazrat Musa (عليه السلام) had to perform an obligatory action but did not return to Bani Israel because of Allah's will. I am putting this as an evidence, that it might have happened that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did not do anything because of showing the reality of the people, as Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) did.

So, we have books as evidence, neither you wrote it nor I wrote it. I believe in evidence from both sides and confirm it by Qur'an until Allah (عزّ وجلّ) rejects it on the day of Qayamah. Because for this I am not to be blamed as I took every precaution and matched conditions with Qur'an. If you do have other choice, I do not have any right to stop you. 

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One last thing as evidence, Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) herself said: "Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) died while she was unhappy and was angry with Hazrat Abu bakar and Hazrat Umer". So, it is for you to find out, why did she die in such state. 

Edited by Flying_Eagle

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13 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

I am not being shady, I am putting questions....your books and our books confirm that doors were burnt, and Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) died in Six months. You say that Ayotullah Fadallah raised question on the incident and did not accept it as he thought how could Imam Ali (عليه السلام) not take obligatory action. I put you in evidence verse from Qur'an where Hazrat Musa (عليه السلام) had to perform an obligatory action but did not return to Bani Israel because of Allah's will. I am putting this as an evidence, that it might have happened that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did not do anything because of showing the reality of the people, as Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) did.

So, we have books as evidence, neither you wrote it nor I wrote it. I believe in evidence from both sides and confirm it by Qur'an until Allah (عزّ وجلّ) rejects it on the day of Qayamah. Because for this I am not to be blamed as I took every precaution and matched conditions with Qur'an. If you do have other choice, I do not have any right to stop you. 

Did Harun (عليه السلام) ever answered the consultation of, co-operated with or obeyed the idol-worshippers in their cult.

During the absence of Umar (رضي الله عنه) when in Palestine, he (رضي الله عنه) appointed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as his substitute in Medina and there are more examples that do not fit into your analogy.

 

Edited by Faruk

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6 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

One last thing as evidence, Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) herself said: "Lady Fatima (عليه السلام) died while she was unhappy and was angry with Hazrat Abu bakar and Hazrat Umer". So, it is for you to find out, why did she die in such state. 

The established facts and generally accepted events by all sects is that there was a threat made to burn the house and the disagreement over Fadak plus the fact that during that time there was not a soul on Earth so close to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as Fatima (عليه السلام).

Edited by Faruk

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30 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Did Harun (عليه السلام) ever answered the consultation of, co-operated with or obeyed the idol-worshippers in their cult.

During the absence of Umar (رضي الله عنه) when in Palestine, he (رضي الله عنه) appointed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as his substitute in Medina and there are more examples that do not fit into your analogy.

 

So, you think harun never purchased from them, nor helped anyone who came to ask his help having in mind that it may happen that with my help, he turn to true path ? Harun was a Prophet, he never participated in their doings but he never abandoned them so that on the Moses (عليه السلام) may not ask him as to why he left them while they could have returned to truth. Similarly, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) remained with them so like Haroon's silence is taken as non-allegiance, why do not you take Imam Ali's silence as non-allegiance ? while you know that Shakyeen did not hold him dear except for their own interest.

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30 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The established facts and generally accepted events by all sects is that there was a threat made to burn the house and the disagreement over Fadak plus the fact that during that time there was not a soul on Earth so close to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as Fatima (عليه السلام).

Those who can blaspheme Prophet and leave Prophet while politics appeal to them dear than Prophet, could they have adamant to have respect for Syeda Zahra ? who left Prophet for whom they swear ya Raoslallah, we owe our lives to you more than our own parents.

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1 hour ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Ayotullah Fadallulah is an Alim and Mujtahid and he is human. He took an approach according to his own logic and rationality. And, If he were alive, I would have asked him as to did not Yazeed ibn Muwawiya read poetry in the honor of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and was not Muwawiya aware about caliphate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and what about Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) who fought in Battle of Jamal ?

If the above men and woman could venture to fight against Ahlebait (عليه السلام) how do you doubt the humans before them being incapable of not fighting ahlebait (عليه السلام) ? 

If even we accept that Ayotullah Fadallah is right in his reasoning, what strengthened Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) to fight in Jamal against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and what incidents encouraged Muwawiya to fight against Imam Ali (عليه السلام). It seems that hatred of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) was being brewed throughout decades. And, if you trace to what family Hazrat Ayesha and Muwviya belongs, you would know from which house hatred came. 

Why are you doing taradhi on A'isha? You literally just mentioned her waging war on Imam Ali (a) similar to how Mu'awiyah waged war on Imam Ali (a). Why not make taradhi of Mu'awiyah the same way?

It's quite sad how some modern-day Shi'as are so determined to appease the other side that they compromise aspects of their own madhhab.

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40 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

So, you think harun never purchased from them, nor helped anyone who came to ask his help having in mind that it may happen that with my help, he turn to true path ? Harun was a Prophet, he never participated in their doings but he never abandoned them so that on the Moses (عليه السلام) may not ask him as to why he left them while they could have returned to truth. Similarly, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) remained with them so like Haroon's silence is taken as non-allegiance, why do not you take Imam Ali's silence as non-allegiance ? while you know that Shakyeen did not hold him dear except for their own interest.

Their interest was ruling an Islamic state. Not a state based on shirk. If so then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) should have never assisted them (رضي الله عنه).

Edited by Faruk

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1 minute ago, Jaabir said:

Why are you doing taradhi on A'isha? You literally just mentioned her waging war on Imam Ali (a) similar to how Mu'awiyah waged war on Imam Ali (a). Why not make taradhi of Mu'awiyah the same way?

It's quite sad how some modern-day Shi'as are so determined to appease the other side that they compromise aspects of their own madhhab.

what is taradhi ?

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Just now, Faruk said:

The attitude of Imam Ali 

 

Their interest was ruling an Islamic state. Not a state based on shirk. If so then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) should have never assisted them (رضي الله عنه).

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) attitude was first Prophet then world, shakeen should have followed him, instead they were busy in their important work of politics and Prophet (PBUHHP) was secondary for them.

lolz, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was a lawgiver after Prophet (PBUHHP). Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never assisted them, he assisted coming generations by solving the issues, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) knew that they will live for sometime but Islam has to exist always so he (عليه السلام) helped Islam. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

Saying radiallahu anhu/anha after the name of a certain person

I see, no offence brother Hazrat Ayesha (رضي الله عنه) :) I was just writing in hurry. 

Edited by Flying_Eagle

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43 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Those who can blaspheme Prophet and leave Prophet while politics appeal to them dear than Prophet, could they have adamant to have respect for Syeda Zahra ? who left Prophet for whom they swear ya Raoslallah, we owe our lives to you more than our own parents.

I lopk at Imam Ali's attitude towards them. If their intentions were evil then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) would have dealt with it accordingly which was not the case.

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

I lopk at Imam Ali's attitude towards them. If their intentions were evil then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) would have dealt with it accordingly which was not the case.

You mean that he would have caused a civil war ? Imams are not after wealth or fortune, their objectives are different. That is why most of our Sunni brothers fail to distinguish between 12 Imams, they take them like ordinary humans. 

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5 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) attitude was first Prophet then world, shakeen should have followed him, instead they were busy in their important work of politics and Prophet (PBUHHP) was secondary for them.

lolz, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was a lawgiver after Prophet (PBUHHP). Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never assisted them, he assisted coming generations by solving the issues, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) knew that they will live for sometime but Islam has to exist always so he (عليه السلام) helped Islam. 

 

If you assist or are consented with usurpation then what kind of Islam iz dat?

If the 'usurpation' was the greatest fitna ever then why was it dealt with so peaceful and smooth?

 

Edited by Faruk

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5 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

You mean that he would have caused a civil war ? Imams are not after wealth or fortune, their objectives are different. That is why most of our Sunni brothers fail to distinguish between 12 Imams, they take them like ordinary humans. 

So you accuse and blame the Shaykhayn (رضي الله عنه) of usurpation and the cause of misguidance of the ummah yet you claim that Imam's passivity was saving Islam?

In all honesty I don't see the logic.

Edited by Faruk

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Just now, Faruk said:

If you assist or are consented with usurpation then what kind of Islam aldo you mean?

If the 'usurpation' wa the greatest fitna ever then why was it dealt with sdo peaceful and smooth?

 

Where did Imam Ali (عليه السلام) say that he was happy with the usurpation ?

Have you read Khutba-e-Shadqsaqiya ? Consented by Sunni Commentator Ibn-al-Abil Hadeed ?

He would have been termed as consented, if he had not addressed such Khutba. You can read about his Khutba's where he said that : "If I take sword people will say I am greedy for Khilafah, and If I am silent, they will call me coward, but I will do as I am told".

So, aren't you saying the same about Imam Ali (عليه السلام) which he says in his quote ?

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So you accuse and blame the Shaykhayn (رضي الله عنه) of usurpation and the cause of misguidance of the ummah yet you claim that Imam's passivity was saving Islam?

In all honesty I don't see the logic.

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