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In the Name of God بسم الله
GabrielWithoutWings

If I convert, would I have to abandon my wife?

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19 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

^Apparently, you don’t want to admit that multiple people have already stated that rulings differ. It is you who is being stubborn. 

It does not differ, please show me proof of any marja with a different ruling.

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4 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

She doesn't do religion, agnostic on God, stopped celebrating Easter when the kids got too old to hunt for eggs, and does Christmas as a family gift-giving holiday with no mention of Jesus at all.  She's never been baptised and neither have I. 

hi we don't consider these as doing religion as she has Christian roots we consider her a Christian & agnosticism is  a philosophy not belief even Muslims infected with agnostic ideas that you can find their posts in this site too 

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8 hours ago, notme said:

Just don't divorce her. It would be cruel and would hurt you, your wife, and your children. 

Sometimes traditions are wrong. 

They mean agnostic not gbostic. Agnostic doubt the existence of God or atleast believe in the existence of God but reject religion.

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7 hours ago, Hassan- said:

The ruling is not different for those who convert, not sure where you got that from. The brother told us she doesn’t follow a religion, scroll up and read. I’m certain of the rulings that I stated and I have proof, so please don’t make assumptions by saying I’m not certain. 

I have seen exceptions made to preserve existing families. 

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8 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

Hello, I lived in Atlanta until very recently, for more than 10 years. Here is a link to the three main scholars of the area: http://www.zainabia.com/atlanta-resident-alims/

You could try contacting one of them, although their centers are not "English speaking." The first is Urdu speaking, the second, Arabic, and the third is Gujarati if I'm not mistaken. Unfortunately the English speaking Shia centers in Atlanta do not have qualified resident scholars as far as I know. 

I could however put you in contact with a qualified American sheikh who specializes in family issues if you'd like. He doesn't live in Atlanta though. I think he would be very willing to help inshaAllah.

What's a qualified resident scholar?  How do the others get by?  Salatomatic shows... I think 5 masjids near me?  How do they settle matters of fiqh in that case?

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2 hours ago, Rohani said:

They mean agnostic not gbostic. Agnostic doubt the existence of God or atleast believe in the existence of God but reject religion.

Correct. Gnosis in Greek means "knowledge" of a specific kind. Not worldly knowledge (I know how to add 2+2) but intimate knowledge (I know my children).  Putting the "a" on the front changes it to the contra meaning. 

So, Agnosticism is literally "I-don’t-know-ism."

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11 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

She's not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. She doesn't do religion, agnostic on God, stopped celebrating Easter when the kids got too old to hunt for eggs, and does Christmas as a family gift-giving holiday with no mention of Jesus at all.  She's never been baptised and neither have I. 

I find this topic frustrating. With the spread of Islam in Europe, I find it hard to consider that there will suddenly be thousands of new divorcees who've abandoned their families because their spouse wouldn't convert.  

There is no 'religious test' as far a being married to a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You simply need to ask her, 'What religion do you consider yourself to be ? '. If she answers with one of the three above, you're good to go, no need to worry. Even if she's never been to Church, never been baptized, doesn't 'do' Easter or Christmas, that is perfectly fine as far as the legality of your marriage in Islam. There are many Europeans, and Americans, Canadian, Australians, etc, who consider themselves to be 'Cultural Christians'. In other words, they don't practice but consider Christianity part of their culture. So if this is her view, she is still considered to be Christian from the point of view of marriage. The main thing is that she believes in God(s.w.a), and considers Jesus(peace be upon him) to have existed and as being a source of guidance for humanity. She doesn't have to believe in a certain denominational doctrine with regards to Jesus(peace be upon him). 

There are some on this thread that have stated that the rule about who you can marry doesn't apply to converts. This is incorrect. The Islamic rules regarding marriage apply to all Muslims equally, and there is no 'convert' and 'non convert' rules, lol. At the same time, the definition of 'Ahl Al Kitab', people of the book, for marriage purposes, is very broad and general, like I have shown above. So most likely, she could 'squeeze' herself into the 'Christian' category so that your marriage would be still be legal and valid, should you choose to convert. So this is one less thing you have to worry about. Islam is the most 'pro marriage' religion that exists. There are many considerations in the religion given so that marriages are maintained and those who are single can get married. 

If you have any further question, please post here, I will try to answer. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

There is no 'religious test' as far a being married to a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You simply need to ask her, 'What religion do you consider yourself to be ? '. If she answers with one of the three above, you're good to go, no need to worry. Even if she's never been to Church, never been baptized, doesn't 'do' Easter or Christmas, that is perfectly fine as far as the legality of your marriage in Islam. There are many Europeans, and Americans, Canadian, Australians, etc, who consider themselves to be 'Cultural Christians'. In other words, they don't practice but consider Christianity part of their culture. So if this is her view, she is still considered to be Christian from the point of view of marriage. The main thing is that she believes in God(s.w.a), and considers Jesus(peace be upon him) to have existed and as being a source of guidance for humanity. She doesn't have to believe in a certain denominational doctrine with regards to Jesus(peace be upon him). 

There are some on this thread that have stated that the rule about who you can marry doesn't apply to converts. This is incorrect. The Islamic rules regarding marriage apply to all Muslims equally, and there is no 'convert' and 'non convert' rules, lol. At the same time, the definition of 'Ahl Al Kitab', people of the book, for marriage purposes, is very broad and general, like I have shown above. So most likely, she could 'squeeze' herself into the 'Christian' category so that your marriage would be still be legal and valid, should you choose to convert. So this is one less thing you have to worry about. Islam is the most 'pro marriage' religion that exists. There are many considerations in the religion given so that marriages are maintained and those who are single can get married. 

If you have any further question, please post here, I will try to answer. 

 

 

The only religious thing my wife has, does, or believes is she wears a bracelet with the serenity prayer on it.  That's literally the only reference to religion I've observed, apart from your standard colloquialisms. 

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14 minutes ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

The only religious thing my wife has, does, or believes is she wears a bracelet with the serenity prayer on it.  That's literally the only reference to religion I've observed, apart from your standard colloquialisms. 

Just ask her the question, that I posted in the beginning. BTW, you can 'coach' her on the answer (wink wink). I gave you the 'cheat sheet', btw. 

There is a good possibility that she will 'grow' spiritually along with you after your conversion. Hope for that. 

Going to a alim (scholar) in this case, I don't believe is necessary, and will probably just confuse you (and maybe her) more, unless the scholar has specific experience dealing with these sorts of issues, which most don't. If you can find one that does have this kind of experience and knowledge, dealing with convert / revert issues, then it would be worthwhile to talk to them, but still not obligatory. 

 

Also I am asking the brothers and sisters on this thread, If you don't know an answer to a question, or you are not sure you know the answer, do not answer the question. This is especially true when the one asking the question is a new revert / convert. They may end up acting on your answer, and if there are bad consequences as a result, you will be partially responsible for this before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Please be careful. 

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16 minutes ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

The only religious thing my wife has, does, or believes is she wears a bracelet with the serenity prayer on it.  That's literally the only reference to religion I've observed, apart from your standard colloquialisms. 

That'll do. 

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Unsolicited opinion: Considering the extension of Islam into officially secular societies in which people may actually honestly have no religious beliefs, would be good to have some official stance on that. I think @notme had the most practical idea: Converts in those situations just stay married to whoever. In my humble opinion, there is no point in engaging in sophistry to make someone a " Christian" who plainly is not.

Otherwise it's going to put a huge damper on conversions, especially if the seeker is female. It's also potentially destabilizing to a society. 

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7 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

The only religious thing my wife has, does, or believes is she wears a bracelet with the serenity prayer on it.  That's literally the only reference to religion I've observed, apart from your standard colloquialisms. 

Hi ,it's an  enough sign that he believes to God like other Christians ,she by wearing this bracelet resembelss what all Christians traditionaly believe to it & nothing more needed.

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7 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

What's a qualified resident scholar?

Studied in /graduated from an Islamic seminary. 

 

7 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

How do the others get by?

Some have 'speakers' not scholars. Many centers are cultural centers and not masjids per se, so don't require an actual resident alim. 

 

7 hours ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

.. I think 5 masjids near me?  How do they settle matters of fiqh in that case?

I don't know. You can do your own research and call the places closest to you, perhaps they do have a qualified scholar that I have not heard about. Probably most people refer their fiqh issues to their marja, by emailing or some other method. 

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11 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi ,it's an  enough sign that he believes to God like other Christians ,she by wearing this bracelet resembelss what all Christians traditionaly believe to it & nothing more needed.

But...If she's agnostic, like her husband, then she'd doesn't  know if there's a God. ( Granted, I don't think he said she is.) The " Serenity Prayer" is not a creed nor does it contain any expression of faith. A person of any number of religions could wear it. It's a nice prayer, but it's basically meaningless for assessing doctrine in regards to Christianity.

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

But...If she's agnostic, like her husband, then she'd doesn't  know if there's a God. ( Granted, I don't think he said she is.) The " Serenity Prayer" is not a creed nor does it contain any expression of faith. A person of any number of religions could wear it. It's a nice prayer, but it's basically meaningless for assessing doctrine in regards to Christianity.

She beloved traditionaly to God or supreme being so keeps that bracelet that represents Christian belief for others ,we judge on her appearance that wears a Christian symbols not what she thinks. 

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