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In the Name of God بسم الله
GabrielWithoutWings

If I convert, would I have to abandon my wife?

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I wasn't going to comment on this except to say that I can relate to your frustration with getting answers sometimes. Islam has no Pope or Code of Canon Law. This has its advantages and disadvantages, of course. I personally like it that I can look up a law code and it's pretty much the same for all Catholics. For example: your wife would NOT be considered a Christian by my Church. She isn't baptized in any Christian denomination nor involved in any formation process to become a Christian. It appears that a lot of Muslims believe there is such a thing as a " cultural Christian" ...someone who just is one without going through any of the initial rites nor making any profession of faith to become so. So be it if that's what they believe, but it doesn't make much sense to me. Thank you for being honest and trying to clarify things. I was going to ask you at one point if she was baptized, but you answered that.

Still, would be a shame to end a good relationship. Lots of folks in here are likely very kindly trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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29 minutes ago, notme said:

Just don't divorce her. It would be cruel and would hurt you, your wife, and your children. 

Sometimes traditions are wrong. 

It’s not a tradition, it’s Islamic rulings. He doesn’t have to divorce her, the marriage will just become void instantly.

What my suggestion would be is he can educate his wife about the existing of God and why he sent Prophets on Earth to guide mankind. If she understands, he can then try to convince her to become a non-practicing Muslim, which can be the first step, and that will save his marriage if he decided to become a Muslim.

Edited by Hassan-

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10 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

It’s not a tradition, it’s Islamic rulings. He doesn’t have to divorce her, the marriage will just become void instantly.

What my suggestion would be is he can educate his wife about the existing of God and why he sent Prophets on Earth to guide mankind. If she understands, he can then try to convince her to become a non-practicing Muslim, which can be the first step, and that will save his marriage if he decided to become a Muslim.

So, if my marriage is suddenly void, I'm suddenly committing Zina with a woman I've been married to for 10 years?

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24 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I wasn't going to comment on this except to say that I can relate to your frustration with getting answers sometimes. Islam has no Pope or Code of Canon Law. This has its advantages and disadvantages, of course. I personally like it that I can look up a law code and it's pretty much the same for all Catholics. For example: your wife would NOT be considered a Christian by my Church. She isn't baptized in any Christian denomination nor involved in any formation process to become a Christian. It appears that a lot of Muslims believe there is such a thing as a " cultural Christian" ...someone who just is one without going through any of the initial rites nor making any profession of faith to become so. So be it if that's what they believe, but it doesn't make much sense to me. Thank you for being honest and trying to clarify things. I was going to ask you at one point if she was baptized, but you answered that.

Still, would be a shame to end a good relationship. Lots of folks in here are likely very kindly trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Well, even though I wasn't raised religious, I went through a similar period of exploring Catholicism and Orthodoxy. 

If I recall correctly, one of the canons of one of the councils announced that any man who divorces or abandons his wife to become a monk is anathema. 

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3 minutes ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

So, if my marriage is suddenly void, I'm suddenly committing Zina with a woman I've been married to for 10 years?

I very much hate to say this to you, but yes it’s zina. Now I don’t want to be the one dictating your life and marriage, so I would suggest you sit down with a scholar and talk about it, he can help you better. Which city do you reside in if you don’t mind me asking? I can find out if there’s a local Shia mosque in your area and you can speak to the scholar there.

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1 minute ago, Hassan- said:

I very much hate to say this to you, but yes it’s zina. Now I don’t want to be the one dictating your life and marriage, so I would suggest you sit down with a scholar and talk about it, he can help you better. Which city do you reside in if you don’t mind me asking? I can find out if there’s a local Shia mosque in your area and you can speak to the scholar there.

I'm about 45 miles northeast of Atlanta. I think the closest English speaking Shia masjid is down near Stone Mountain. 

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50 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

I very much hate to say this to you, but yes it’s zina. Now I don’t want to be the one dictating your life and marriage, so I would suggest you sit down with a scholar and talk about it, he can help you better. Which city do you reside in if you don’t mind me asking? I can find out if there’s a local Shia mosque in your area and you can speak to the scholar there.

You should caution in spreading information like that. People are lacking context and the OP should only speak with an Imam on this issue. You have little to no context to make the accusation of zina (Which is debated even amongst scholars, so it depends on who you follow.)

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1 hour ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

Well, even though I wasn't raised religious, I went through a similar period of exploring Catholicism and Orthodoxy. 

If I recall correctly, one of the canons of one of the councils announced that any man who divorces or abandons his wife to become a monk is anathema. 

I actually don't know. I do know the Council of Chalcedon, at least, had a few canons regarding monasticism. But it would make sense. Since marriage is a sacrament and vowed lifelong vocation in itself, it would seem to preclude ending it to take on another.

In modern practice, divorced people are usually not allowed to enter into holy orders or monastic communities. People whose spouses are deceased may in certain circumstances. 

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26 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You should caution in spreading information like that. People are lacking context and the OP should only speak with an Imam on this issue. You have little to no context to make the accusation of zina (Which is debated even amongst scholars, so it depends on who you follow.)

Not allowed to marry a non-kitabi is not debated amongst the scholars, they all unanimously agree with each other. Although I’m certain of the ruling itself, I still told the brother to speak to a scholar instead of taking my words since I don’t want to be responsible for any decisions he decides to do.

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Just now, Hassan- said:

Not allowed to marry a non-kitabi is not debated amongst the scholars, they all unanimously agree with each other. Although I’m certain of the ruling itself, I still told the brother to speak to a scholar instead of taking my words since I don’t want to be responsible for any decisions he decides to do.

Yes it is. The ruling is different for those who convert to Islam, and the ruling depends on which marja you follow.

You don’t know for certain if she’s a Kitabi or not. The brother has given very brief responses that only a scholar or an Imam would have the answer to. So you must refrain to call it haram or Zina unless you are absolutely certain, which you are not. 

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Just now, Islandsandmirrors said:

Yes it is. The ruling is different for those who convert to Islam, and the ruling depends on which marja you follow.

You don’t know for certain if she’s a Kitabi or not. The brother has given very brief responses that only a scholar or an Imam would have the answer to. So you must refrain to call it haram or Zina unless you are absolutely certain, which you are not. 

The ruling is not different for those who convert, not sure where you got that from. The brother told us she doesn’t follow a religion, scroll up and read. I’m certain of the rulings that I stated and I have proof, so please don’t make assumptions by saying I’m not certain. 

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Just now, Hassan- said:

The ruling is not different for those who convert, not sure where you got that from. The brother told us she doesn’t follow a religion, scroll up and read. I’m certain of the rulings that I stated and I have proof, so please don’t make assumptions by saying I’m not certain. 

Yes it is different, so stop sticking your head in the sand, clean out your ears, and listen to what I’m saying: you cannot make accusations when you are uncertain. You said yourself that he needs to speak with an Imam, which shows 1. You lack full context  2. Your marja’s ruling is different from other marjas. 3. There are exceptions when someone converts to Islam. 4. You don’t know for certain if she is a non-Kitabi. Only an Imam or a Scholar can make that final decision. 5. You are uncertain since you don’t want him to take your word (since you know there is a chance you are wrong.)

 

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1 hour ago, GabrielWithoutWings said:

I'm about 45 miles northeast of Atlanta. I think the closest English speaking Shia masjid is down near Stone Mountain. 

Hello, I lived in Atlanta until very recently, for more than 10 years. Here is a link to the three main scholars of the area: http://www.zainabia.com/atlanta-resident-alims/

You could try contacting one of them, although their centers are not "English speaking." The first is Urdu speaking, the second, Arabic, and the third is Gujarati if I'm not mistaken. Unfortunately the English speaking Shia centers in Atlanta do not have qualified resident scholars as far as I know. 

I could however put you in contact with a qualified American sheikh who specializes in family issues if you'd like. He doesn't live in Atlanta though. I think he would be very willing to help inshaAllah.

Edited by ireallywannaknow

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Yes it is different, so stop sticking your head in the sand, clean out your ears, and listen to what I’m saying: you cannot make accusations when you are uncertain. You said yourself that he needs to speak with an Imam, which shows 1. You lack full context  2. Your marja’s ruling is different from other marjas. 3. There are exceptions when someone converts to Islam. 4. You don’t know for certain if she is a non-Kitabi. Only an Imam or a Scholar can make that final decision. 5. You are uncertain since you don’t want him to take your word (since you know there is a chance you are wrong.)

 

Your stubbornness is over the roof, Jesus. This is not the first time you act like this, many times you try to challenge people on the forums about fiqh only to get proven wrong. When you get challenged, you reply with either “I read it somewhere”, “not all marja say it”, “your only assuming”, it’s actually getting annoying. Just because you don’t like what the Islamic ruling says, it doesn’t mean you can find a loophole around it. Get your facts straight please and stop arguing. This is what the OP said: “She's not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. She doesn't do religion, agnostic on God,” can you read? The reason I told him to see a scholar is because he can help him better than I can, but the ruling I stated is correct and the scholar can’t change it.

Look at this video here starting from 16:15 till 17:40: https://youtu.be/9mkmqQ8yk6k This Sayed is a professional in fiqh and speaks from a Sayed Sistani and Sayed khoei point of view.

Translation: “If the husband became Muslim and his wife remained a kafir, we have to see whether the wife is a kitabi or a non kitabi. If she’s a kitabi the marriage is valid. Whether she’s a Christian, Jewish, and the man became a Muslim, it doesn’t matter let her stay Christian, because generally speaking you are allowed to marry a kitabi. The issue is if she is not a kitabi. We have to see if he penetrated her or not. Let’s say if a man is married to a Buddhist, and he became a Muslim, and he never penetrated her before, the marriage becomes void right away, she is not his wife anymore. If the man has penetrated her before, and he became Muslim, the women enters iddah instantly, and in this period if she converted to Islam the marriage remains, but if she didn’t convert to Islam during her iddah the marriage becomes void.”

 

Now can you show me proof of your claim that a marriage remains valid even if the women is a non kitabi? Thanks.

Edited by Hassan-

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^Apparently, you don’t want to admit that multiple people have already stated that rulings differ. It is you who is being stubborn. 

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