Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

58 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

They are not our mothers the way you understand it. No one is doing any takfir to them, just stating the historical fact of what they did. In Shia viewpoint they are worst in reliability and are know for hating and being jealousy to the members of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 

Do you really believe that the title Mothers of the Believers did not grant them a certain status no matter what happened before?

And even though they made grave mistakes or commited grave sins didn't both Allah and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forgave them?

And if no why did't he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) divorced her?

What about Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

He (عليه السلام) did not punish her (رضي الله عنه) and gave her a worthy escort home after she (رضي الله عنه) lost the Battle of Jamal.

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Faruk said:

When did the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) divorce Ashia (رضي الله عنه)?

Brother if you are referring to my post then it is clarified I have not mentioned any where that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) divorced Aisha.

1 hour ago, Faruk said:

And if no why did't he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) divorced her?

What about Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

He (عليه السلام) did not punish her (رضي الله عنه) and gave her a worthy escort home after she (رضي الله عنه) lost the Battle of Jamal.

The matter of not divorcing her seems similar to the behavior with the people of Makkah  including hypocrites who were present at time of conquest of Makkah. But the Prophet did not take them out or punish and just did not give attention to their matter.

Imam Ali AS did send Aisha back because he exhibited the same manner as was showed by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) at the time of conquest of Makakh to his opponents including the hypocrites.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Faruk said:

Do you really believe that the title Mothers of the Believers did not grant them a certain status no matter what happened before?

It does grand them certain status, I don't want to sound here that is not important title.

Quote

And even though they made grave mistakes or commited grave sins didn't both Allah and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forgave them?

 And if no why did't he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) divorced her?

Perhaps in the time of Prophet (saws) but after him is another story.

Quote

 What about Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

 He (عليه السلام) did not punish her (رضي الله عنه) and gave her a worthy escort home after she (رضي الله عنه) lost the Battle of Jamal.

This is the first fitnah, and punishing a daughter of man who many Muslims hold him in high status and wife of the Prophet (saws) will only cause more fire to the fitnah. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) always see how he can benefit the religion of Islam.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/12/2019 at 10:43 PM, Abu Nur said:

Perhaps in the time of Prophet (saws) but after him is another story.

How do you know?

 

On 6/12/2019 at 10:43 PM, Abu Nur said:

This is the first fitnah, and punishing a daughter of man who many Muslims hold him in high status and wife of the Prophet (saws) will only cause more fire to the fitnah. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) always see how he can benefit the religion of Islam.

The intention of a man is between him and Allah.

What we know is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) treated her (رضي الله عنه) well.

Be a Shiatul Ali and follow his footsteps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 6/12/2019 at 9:06 PM, Muslim2010 said:

The matter of not divorcing her seems similar to the behavior with the people of Makkah  including hypocrites who were present at time of conquest of Makkah. But the Prophet did not take them out or punish and just did not give attention to their matter.

Imam Ali AS did send Aisha back because he exhibited the same manner as was showed by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) at the time of conquest of Makakh to his opponents including the hypocrites.

wasalam

Salam,

And how do you know this was really the case?

These are the points that withhold me to embrace Shia Islam unconditionally and totally.

A lot of theories and arguments are made yet there is no solid proof that it is really is as assumed/suggested.

We should not delve into intentions as this is a forbidden area. That's a basic principle in Islamic jurisprudence when it comes to penal matters.

The only things which are in our area is that what we can perceive with the 5 senses which picts a positive attitude of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) towards the Mothers of the believers and the first three caliphs (رضي الله عنه).

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Faruk said:

How do you know?

What do you mean how I know. If Prophet Muhammad (saws) ask forgiveness for Aisha, does it mean she can do whatever she want and still she is in Jannah because of the dua? It is clear that there were companions of Prophet that will not attain Jannah because of what they did after the Prophet. I don't know about Aisha repetance. What I know is that whoever attack or disrespect Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) will not get good image about themselves or no one will trust or take their words seriously. 

Quote

What we know is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) treated her (رضي الله عنه) well.

Yes, so? 

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

It is clear that there were companions of Prophet that will not attain Jannah because of what they did after the Prophet.

Did the Prophet keep a secret diary?

since the Prophet was dead and the Qur'an revealed, you can't know what happens in the  hereafter to people not mentioned by the Prophet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

since the Prophet was dead and the Qur'an revealed, you can't know what happens in the  hereafter to people not mentioned by the Prophet.

 

Chapter: “And fear the Fitnah which affects not in particular those among you who do wrong….”

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I will be at my Lake-Fount (Kauthar) waiting for whoever will come to me. Then some people will be taken away from me whereupon I will say, 'My followers!' It will be said, 'You do not know they turned Apostates as renegades (deserted their religion).'" (Ibn Abi Mulaika said, "Allah, we seek refuge with You from turning on our heels from the (Islamic) religion and from being put to trial").Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7048 Book 92, Hadith 1 ,USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 172

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you.'"

I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that. There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and then a barrier will be set up between me and them."

"I will say those people are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed (the religion) after me!"

--

These are the companions who will not enter Jannah, and as the Prophet says to them Far removed from his mercy. Who are they? Apostate, Hypocrite, Making Innovations, causing Fitnah. Not by names, but by actions you will see it clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But according to  this Sahih Bukhari hadith, both are in the fire:

Narrated Al-Hasan:

(Al-Ahnaf said:) I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (I.e. the war between `Ali and `Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (I.e.,`Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell- Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'" (See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1)

Narrated Al-Ahnaf:

Abu Bakra said: The Prophet (ﷺ) said (as above, 204).

Reference  : Sahih al-Bukhari 7083
In-book reference  : Book 92, Hadith 34
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 204

---

What a wonderful book, all that time trying to protecting their beloved personality, but in their own book you find such a disgusting narration.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

But according to  this Sahih Bukhari hadith, both Imam Ali (عليه السلام)  (Audublillah) and Aisha are in the fire:

Narrated Al-Hasan:

(Al-Ahnaf said:) I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (I.e. the war between `Ali and `Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (I.e.,`Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell- Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'" (See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1)

Narrated Al-Ahnaf:

Abu Bakra said: The Prophet (ﷺ) said (as above, 204).

Reference  : Sahih al-Bukhari 7083
In-book reference  : Book 92, Hadith 34
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 204

---

What a wonderful book, all that time trying to protecting their beloved personality, but in their own book you find such a disgusting narration.

It doesn't say they will both be in the fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

 

Chapter: “And fear the Fitnah which affects not in particular those among you who do wrong….”

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I will be at my Lake-Fount (Kauthar) waiting for whoever will come to me. Then some people will be taken away from me whereupon I will say, 'My followers!' It will be said, 'You do not know they turned Apostates as renegades (deserted their religion).'" (Ibn Abi Mulaika said, "Allah, we seek refuge with You from turning on our heels from the (Islamic) religion and from being put to trial").Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7048 Book 92, Hadith 1 ,USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 172

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you.'"

I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that. There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and then a barrier will be set up between me and them."

"I will say those people are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed (the religion) after me!"

--

These are the companions who will not enter Jannah, and as the Prophet says to them Far removed from his mercy. Who are they? Apostate, Hypocrite, Making Innovations, causing Fitnah. Not by names, but by actions you will see it clear.

This isn't clear. First of all there are many levels of paradise. Second only the last bit about mercy give the indication that they might go to jahannam. However, if they did we don't know if they will stay there.

thirdly, it is most likely only a way of presentation that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) is asked does he not know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell- Fire

This only applies where there is a death of one and even then situation vary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

This isn't clear. First of all there are many levels of paradise. Second only the last bit about mercy give the indication that they might go to jahannam. However, if they did we don't know if they will stay there.

Lol, for example Apostates or Innovators will perhaps go to lower Jannah or perhaps they maybe go to Jahannam? Anyway this following statement "barrier will be set up between me and them" can be understood from the Qur'anic verse:

[Qur'an 57:13] On that day, the hypocrite men and women will say to those who believed, "Please allow us to absorb some of your light." It will be said, "Go back behind you, and seek light." A barrier will be set up between them, whose gate separates mercy on the inner side, from retribution on the outer side.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...