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In the Name of God بسم الله

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31 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Aisha, was not his favourite wife, where did you get that from?

It is known that Khadijah (عليه السلام) is the Rasullulah's(sawas) favourite wife and nobody could ever replace her. Whenever he mentioned her infront of Aisha, she would get enraged and start to call her names. 

 

Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (رضي الله عنه) are venerated because the Umawi and Abbasi kings used them as a counterforce to imamate and to legitimize their own rulership. 

All rulers should be from Quraish.

The funny thing is that this was the ijtihad of Abu Bakr (رضي الله عنه) during Saqifah and not something binding for all Muslims at any time.

I btw do not suppport imamate. Just wanted to point out that some Sunni creedal matters are not consistent nor a prophetic sunnah.

 

 

Edited by Faruk

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2 hours ago, Faruk said:

Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (رضي الله عنه) are venerated because the Umawi and Abbasi kings used them as a counterforce to imamate and to legitimize their own rulership. 

All rulers should be from Quraish.

The funny thing is that this was the ijtihad of Abu Bakr (رضي الله عنه) during Saqifah and not something binding for all Muslims at any time.

I btw do not suppport imamate. Just wanted to point out that some Sunni creedal matters are not consistent nor a prophetic sunnah.

 

 

MashAllah, look at the evidences for Ghadir Khumm in purely Sunni sources it's amazing.

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=khumm

https://www.al-Islam.org/message-thaqalayn/general-message-thaqalayn/glimpses-shiism-musnad-ibn-hanbal-Dr......-Sayyid-kazim/6

The second link is a speech of 'Ali years later in Iraq referencing Ghadir Khumm! Of course, this is completely ignoring all the Shia sources.

This is when you come to realise the creedal matters for Sunnis came later on, whereas doctrinally the Shias have maintained from day one 'Ali was the leader after the Prophet (s) and 12 Imams would follow. As the words of a wise Shia scholar once said, "the strenghth of our madhab is that it can be proven from the opponents books".

:)

Edited by ali47

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6 minutes ago, ali47 said:

MashAllah, look at the evidences for Ghadir Khumm in purely Sunni sources it's amazing.

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=khumm

https://www.al-Islam.org/message-thaqalayn/general-message-thaqalayn/glimpses-shiism-musnad-ibn-hanbal-Dr.......-Sayyid-kazim/6 (years later 'Ali would reference Ghadir Khumm himself)

This is when you come to realise the creedal matters for Sunnis came later on, whereas doctrinally the Shias have maintained from day one 'Ali was the leader after the Prophet (s) and 12 Imams would follow. As the words of a wise Shia scholar once said, "the strenghth of our madhab is that it can be proven from the opponents books".

:)

Unfortunately the co-operative and flexible behaviour of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) towards the first 3 caliphs shows otherwise.

The only way to rationalize imamate is to claim that he (عليه السلام) did so because of certain intentions.

And intentions to me are the area of Allah. I only make conclusions according his behaviour which was far from hostile.

Edited by Faruk

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19 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Umfortunately the cooperative and flexible behaviour of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) towards the first 3 caliphs shows otherwise.

The only way to rationalize imamate is to claim that he (عليه السلام) did so because of certain intentions.

All it does is prove 'Ali's patience. It's interesting that you had early Sunni historians like Ibn Abi al-Hadid who believed that Imam 'Ali was the righteous Imam but nevertheless the held allegience of Abu Bakr was now binding - this is probably the closest you can get to Shi'ism without being a Shia. This was the policy of Imam 'Ali to some degree but not because he whole heartedly agreed with Abu Bakr and 'Umar.

Our sources have 'Ali simply stating, "If I was declared to have priority over the believers (awla/mawla) how does anyone have priority over me?". This argument of 'Ali still stands strong today especially given how Ghadir Khumm is narrated in the books of both schools. He had priority over the believers even though they forced themselves over him in the end. The big problem are the narrations of 'Ali allegedly praising Abu Bakr, Umar and 'Uthman which has confused matters. We have narrations showing us that people like 'Amr ibn Al-As made these up to support Mu'awiyah (these are on the authority of 'Ali himself). 

The whole idea of the 4 righteous caliphs came later on after the reign of Mu'awiyah, at that point 'Ali was cursed publicly in Syria. Before then it was the Shias of Uthman and the Shias of 'Ali. The Shias of Uthman upheld the traditions of Abu Bakr and Umar, whilst the Shia of 'Ali upheld the traditions of 'Ali (references to this can be seen in the narrations during the battle of Karbala). Still there's no escaping Ghadir Khumm, even if they do say it was all down to some distribution of booty amongst 'Ali's army!

The fact that 'Ali refused the allegience and 'Umar threatened to torch his house is telling although I appreciate there is a lot of exaggeration around this event. Nevertheless 'Ali was coereced to pledge allegience, although Sunnis sources dispute this and insist 'Ali "thought that he had right in the matter but then decided he was wrong" and pleged allegience peacefully. Clearly something changed 'Ali's mind into believing he was no longer mawla over the believers I reckon it was Umar's torch as this has again been narrated by both schools.

Edited by ali47

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