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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Salam,

One of the verses that we use to prove Aisha and Hafsa were not believers is of course this verse from Surah al-Tahreem:

"It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allah), believers, obedient to Allah, turning to Allah in repentance, worshipping Allah sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allah's sake), previously married and virgins."

A common argument which you may hear many speakers argue is that the apparent meaning of the verse is that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning qualities which Hafsa and Aisha do not have (Muslim, believing, devout etc.).

However, one objection to this argument is that the verse also mentions virgins, which most people say Aisha was a virgin, and the verse mentions previously married, which Hafsa was and some say Aisha was as well. So the verse contains two qualities which Aisha and Hafsa did have. So therefore, it follows that the other qualities the verse mentions, Aisha and Hafsa may still have those qualities.

I was thinking, maybe a way to counter this objection is the fact that the qualities of being believers and being obedient and repentant etc. are qualities which will get one closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). However, from my knowledge being a virgin or previously married doesn't necessarily get one closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So basically, the verse isn't making the quality of being a virgin or previously married as something which makes for a better wife and person. What the verse may be saying is that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can give the Prophet (s) better wives who are either Muslim, believing, obedient etc., virgins or Muslim, believing, obedient etc. previously married women.

So the argument is still valid in that the verse mention qualities which Hafsa and Aisha don't have. Thoughts?

Edited by Follower of Ahlulbayt

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1 minute ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

However, one objection to this argument is that the verse also mentions virgins, which most people say Aisha was a virgin, and the verse mentions previously married, which Hafsa was and some say Aisha was as well. So the verse contains two qualities which Aisha and Hafsa did have. So therefore, it follows that the other qualities the verse mentions, Aisha and Hafsa may still have those qualities.

They were both infertile (couldn’t produce children) and had no offspring.

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6 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Or how about the fact that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) would not be married to non-believers.....

He treats people by the “exterior,” not the “interior,” by their outward behavior. And the rest is for God to judge in, just like Lot and Noah and their wives.

6 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

Why would Aisha be a virgin she's married.

She was infertile, just as her “friend” (counterpart; mentioned above) was. Being married doesn’t mean instant production.

I know a friend of mine, whose sister got betrothed five years ago, and I was invited to her wedding... and to this day, she didn’t bear a child.

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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4 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Or how about the fact that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) would not be married to non-believers.....

Yeah I guess the reply to this would be that Aisha and Hafsa were non-believers in the sense that they  were hypocrites. In reality hypocrites are kafir but since they don't openly do kufr the rules of Islam still apply to them

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7 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

Yeah I guess the reply to this would be that Aisha and Hafsa were non-believers in the sense that they  were hypocrites. In reality hypocrites are kafir but since they don't openly do kufr the rules of Islam still apply to them

Yes. And many after his death committed hideous acts (and some in his lifetime, whom he divorced)... see (this wife). She became an apostate after his death, married the son of this disbeliever, and followed this liar. All according to the books of those that oppose us, but they don’t propagate it, as they much as they propagate other things, because then, it’ll mean the end of their belief, that all of the wives were holy women - which also contradicts our holy book, which plainly (for those that have functioning brains) call out the wives of Lot and Noah as disbelievers, and women of hell.

Not to mention Zipporah, the wife of Moses, that fought against his successor, Joshua, in a historic battle, where he crushed her and defeated her army.
(How surprising and similar!) However, if I were to mention all of the wives that committed such acts, it
’d be considered as spam, perhaps.

Wives are a “borrowed link,” it could be cut if the wife is bad, or could stay as it is, and become bolder, if she’s good. Same goes for husbands.
I mentioned wives here, since we’re speaking about Prophets, which are men (husbands).

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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15 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

He treats people by the “exterior,” not the “interior,” by their outward behavior. And the rest is for God to judge in, just like Lot and Noah and their wives.

She was infertile, just as her “friend” (counterpart; mentioned above) was. Being married doesn’t mean instant production.

I know a friend of mine, whose sister got betrothed five years ago, and I was invited to her wedding... and to this day, she didn’t bear a child.

I said virging, not childless. But how did they know she was infertile?

Allah let Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) know about other hypocrites. He would have let him know of a wife. Aisha was his favorite wife.

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7 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Yes. And many after his death committed hideous acts (and some in his lifetime, whom he divorced)... see (this wife). She became an apostate after his death, married the son of this disbeliever, and followed this liar. All according to the books of those that oppose us, but they don’t propagate it, as they much as they propagate other things, because then, it’ll mean the end of their belief, that all of the wives were holy women - which also contradicts our holy book, which plainly (for those that have functioning brains) call out the wives of Lot and Noah as disbelievers, and women of hell.

They only say the wives of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) were "holy".

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4 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

I said virging, not childless.

As for being a virgin, there are many traditions that indicate, that before him, they had married other men.

4 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

But how did they know she was infertile?

She didn’t bear children, and couldn’t. And the passage above mentions that.

4 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

Aisha was his favorite wife.

Except, she wasn’t. Sayyida Kḫādīja was. Aisha herself says that she’s jealous of her.

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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5 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

They only say the wives of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) were "holy".

How are they going to explain how one of his wives, Qātīla, became an apostate (disbelieved in God), married the son of A'bu Jāhl and followed Musāylīmāh the Liar?

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29 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

As for being a virgin, there are many traditions that indicate, that before him, they had married other men.

She didn’t bear children, and couldn’t. And the passage above mentions that.

Except, she wasn’t. Sayyida Kḫādīja was. Aisha herself says that she’s jealous of her.

I don’t agree that they were infertility, the mother of believers umm salama ((رضي الله عنه)) had children from her previous husband but when she married the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), she did not bear any children from him. If I’m not wrong, she ((رضي الله عنه)) was from her early 30’s when he married him ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 

I think the mother of believers were practicing birth control.

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..The only accounts we have of Ayesha are either from Qur’an, the word of God or from her own descriptions. The sayings of the Holy Prophet are completely muted praising her. Qur’an has indeed mentioned her in multiple places, denouncing her one action or the other. In one occasion she was found bullying a wife of the Prophet who was a converted daughter of a Jewish noble on account of her lineage. On this occasion, the Merciful God revealed, “Not let women ridicule other women; perhaps they may be better than them.” The Holy Prophet had told that wife to next time reply Ayesha in words like ‘Moses is her father, Aaron is her uncle, and Muhammad is her husband’. In the other two places, the divine revelations suggested to the Holy Prophet to divorce her for her musings. On one occasion she was called a person of ‘twisted heart’. In another place where she was falsely accused of an indecent act testified to her gullibility where she could not keep herself in the manners she was supposed to in the presence of strange men. This event was called the event of the False Accusation or ‘Ifk’ in the Qur’an. The Holy Prophet had quit bringing her to out of town excursions after the event of Ifk and remained separated from her for a month after this.

Source: Prophet Muhammad (A Young Adult's Guide to the Early History of Islam) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1790469651

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4 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

They were both infertile (couldn’t produce children) and had no offspring.

I personally believe that a Muslim should not implies towards a biological weakness or infirmity as his or her being or lower value but Iman. As pointing out towards bodily infirmity is actually implying towards what he or she could not amend but one should speak about their such faults at which they had authority to change but they did not change. Prophet (PBUHHP) was not hurt by Bibi Ayesha or Bibi Hafsa due to their infertility but their lack of obedience.  

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5 hours ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

 

Salam,

One of the verses that we use to prove Aisha and Hafsa were not believers is of course this verse from Surah al-Tahreem:

"It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allah), believers, obedient to Allah, turning to Allah in repentance, worshipping Allah sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allah's sake), previously married and virgins."

A common argument which you may hear many speakers argue is that the apparent meaning of the verse is that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning qualities which Hafsa and Aisha do not have (Muslim, believing, devout etc.).

However, one objection to this argument is that the verse also mentions virgins, which most people say Aisha was a virgin, and the verse mentions previously married, which Hafsa was and some say Aisha was as well. So the verse contains two qualities which Aisha and Hafsa did have. So therefore, it follows that the other qualities the verse mentions, Aisha and Hafsa may still have those qualities.

I was thinking, maybe a way to counter this objection is the fact that the qualities of being believers and being obedient and repentant etc. are qualities which will get one closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). However, from my knowledge being a virgin or previously married doesn't necessarily get one closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So basically, the verse isn't making the quality of being a virgin or previously married as something which makes for a better wife and person. What the verse may be saying is that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can give the Prophet (s) better wives who are either Muslim, believing, obedient etc., virgins or Muslim, believing, obedient etc. previously married women.

So the argument is still valid in that the verse mention qualities which Hafsa and Aisha don't have. Thoughts?

 

و عليكم السلام و رحمتاالله

Seems legit, though the Sunni/Shia thingy is going on for too long now. I would say 1400 years is enough. It takes everyone in the Ummah so long to come to a conclusion as if people distorted our beliefs. Is Allah really going to question us about this? We have millions of ulema and still no clear proofs/ and or ijma about certain topics. And Allah is looking at us debating anything and we sometimes make it worse with that. Inshallah we will find truth and unite with Allah without doubting our belief.

 

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