r/Islam is the WORST. Let's compile a list of revered Shia figures that are not given their proper status by Sunnis, according to Shia Islam.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

Read the Reddit comments to understand what the thread was about, since the post has since been deleted.

.......................................................................................

I'm so tired of the utterly nonsensical and VERY COMMON Sunni notion of 'I am happy to seek unity with Shias as long as they don't curse/insult/abuse any Sahaba, and especially NOT Aisha, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman. 

Firstly, any Shia claim regarding the sahabi that happens to go against the Sunni narrative is considered insulting.

Secondly, and more importantly, is that the same notion is true for Shias... You are insulting the Ahlul Bayt by not accepting them as divinely appointed leaders of Allah, and infallible individuals, and perfect preservers of the religion of Islam, and a high means of seeking closeness to Allah (intercession). Not only are you insulting revered Shia figures by not following them, you are commiting MAJOR shirk by giving a false attribute to Allah, by saying that Allah has not always appointed an infallible leader on this Earth, and that there currently isn't an infallible leader. 

Furthermore, the real kicker is that plenty of revered Shia figures, such as Abu Talib (رضي الله عنه), are considered kuffar by Sunnis. Is this not insulting? So, how can we Shias unite with Sunnis based on their own fallacious logic?

Shias are the minority, and Sunnis are the majority. It makes Sunnis think that they are Orthodox and that they have to unite with Heterodox for political and humanitarian reasons, and that Shias must make [ridiculous] compromises.

Shias are far more receptive to the unity message, because we actually understand Sunni Islam, and can see the commonalities. We understand that we can't make Sunnis compromise on their beliefs. Simply by being the minority within Islam, by nature we Shias already understand Sunni beliefs, whereas Sunnis have a basic strawman understanding of Shia beliefs... which is natural, considering that they are the majority.

Anyways, the point of my post is the following: Let's compile a list of revered Shia figures that are not given their proper status by Sunnis, according to Shia Islam... with an explanation given.

...This is to show that we Shias and Sunnis can unite, but we cannot unite upon revered figures and imamah.

...This will also serve as a way of showing Sunnis that this argument of theirs makes no sense.

Another important question we may ask is "What about commonly revered figures like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) who is given different status in both sects? Can we unite upon Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?"

...a common Sunni criticism of political unity is that "Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضي الله عنه) is given an improper status in Shia religion because they call upon him... tawassul (intercession) of the 'dead' is Shirk! So there is absolutely no room for unity since we can't even agree on the status of the sahabi"

[yes, I am aware that the Imams (عليه السلام) are still alive, but Sunnis don't believe this...]

I would love to hear your thoughts.

Wassalam.

JazakAllah Khair.

Fi sabilillah.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

ok... I went a bit overboard on the tags 

[aaaz1618]

4 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

ok... I went a bit overboard on the tags 

Makes me think of that song... How does it go?

"I'm going to pop some tags, got 20 gigs mobile data..."

Moving on...

I'll name one- Imam Ali ibn Hussain. Most people who adhere to Sunni thought will never have heard of Al-Sahifa Al-Sajjaddiya, despite it being a profoundly deep book of supplications which can be applied to our lives. Even if we didn't recite them word for word, reading these supplications inspires us to seek Allah in similar ways. It shouldn't be that a Sunni only hears about Imam Ali ibn Hussain if they get curious and flick through Ahlul Bayt TV, as was the case with me. If people know about Al-Ghazali, someone who people of Sunni ideology often see as a great thinker and writer, then they must know Imam Ali ibn Hussain. 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

Which revered Shia figures are considered kuffar or munafiqun by Sunnis?

I know of Abu Talib (رضي الله عنه)... but who else?

[Guest]

They talk about Abu Huraira, Khalid bin waleed, Talha, zubair. Why do they never mention Salman Farsi and Bilal(رضي الله عنه)? Are they not Sahabas?

What about Abu Dharr Ghaffari(رضي الله عنه)one of the earliest people to convert to Islam, why is he never mentioned ?? Because Abu Dharr Ghaffari opposed Muawiyah.

Miqdad bin Awsad (رضي الله عنه) another companion. I can bet most Sunnis have never even heard of him.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

Also, in sake of fairness, let's list the Shia view of revered Sunni figures.

[hasanhh]

I'd like to read the results of the OP, but let us keep this on one theme at a time.

So when these people are listed, please add who they are, not just any reverential status.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

I'd like to read the results of the OP

I think it would be more beneficial if a more knowledgeable user like yourself compiled the final list.

[Faruk]

What bothers me is that in the ilm rijal of Sunni hadith literature the testimonies of those considered shi'I are rejected.

While shi'I was a very broad term. It could be a rafidi but also one who rejected the usurpation of the caliphate by Yazid, agreed with Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but still considered the Rashidun caliphs as legitimate. The uprisings consisted of a coalition of diffirent sects like mutazilites, ahnaf, khawarij abbasids and extinct Shi'I sub-sects, pre-Twelver sects and ghulat sects, all if not the majority of them considered to be shi'is.

In case of serious research this should be raken into considersation as an important fact.

Point is that Sunni ahaadith literarure is in favour of the Umayyad usurpation at the cost of those who supported Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

Edited June 10, 2019 by Faruk

[funklebits]

The. Absolute. Worst.

Also I'm excited for this thread and look forward to learning from all you knowledgeable and kind brothers and sisters. 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

How accurate is wikipedia right now regarding Sunni/Shia views of the following individuals?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Talib_ibn_Abd_al-Muttalib#Views
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_ibn_al-Walid#Islamic [revered by Sunnis]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_the_Persian#Views
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Rabah#After_Muhammad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Dhar_al-Ghifari#Sunni_view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Dhar_al-Ghifari#Shi'a_view
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah#Malik_ibn_Nuwayra's_Death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammar_ibn_Yasir#Role_after_Muhammad's_death

[Faruk]

43 minutes ago, starlight said:

They talk about Abu Huraira, Khalid bin waleed, Talha, zubair. Why do they never mention Salman Farsi and Bilal(رضي الله عنه)? Are they not Sahabas?

What about Abu Dharr Ghaffari(رضي الله عنه)one of the earliest people to convert to Islam, why is he never mentioned ?? Because Abu Dharr Ghaffari opposed Muawiyah.

Miqdad bin Awsad (رضي الله عنه) another companion. I can bet most Sunnis have never even heard of him.

Because the Umayyads hid behind the Rashidun caliphs and their claimed legitimacy that a caliph should be only from Quraish (and not only Bani Hashim). The hadith of the ten promised Paradise is one of their tools too cement it further.

The most revered Shi'is were non-Arabs, non-Quraishi's or insignificant Quraishi's.

To venerate those was of no benefit to their (Umayyad) claims.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Faruk

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

4 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Because the Umayyads hid behind the Rashidun caliphs and their claimed legitimacy that a caliph should be only from Quraish. The hadith of the ten promised Paradise is one of its tools.

The most revered Shi'is were non-Arabs, non-Quraish or insignificant Quraishi's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_ten_with_glad_tidings_of_paradise#Shiite_view

Wikipedia destroys this Hadith 

[Faruk]

5 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_ten_with_glad_tidings_of_paradise#Shiite_view

Wikipedia destroys this Hadith 

The order in itself is laughable to begin with. It starts with the exact order of the Rashidun Caliphs. How obvious.

There are numbers of naieve people who consider this to be a sign.

I am immune for such lists as I can immediately smell the political motives of it.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Faruk

[aaaz1618]

The sad truth is that most of the Ahlul Bayt that went to Karbala are not given the respect or attention by other schools of thought. Ask them who Zainab was and what she did, she would be considered up there with Maryam, Fatima and Asiya if only they bothered to find out. I am yet to find anyone in my community who knows of Zainab bint Ali. 

[Faruk]

14 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

The sad truth is that most of the Ahlul Bayt that went to Karbala are not given the respect or attention by other schools of thought. Ask them who Zainab was and what she did, she would be considered up there with Maryam, Fatima and Asiya if only they bothered to find out. I am yet to find anyone in my community who knows of Zainab bint Ali. 

What about Zayd ibn Ali (عليه السلام) who was loved and respected by both Sunni (Abu Hanifa (رضي الله عنه)) and Shia (Jafar as-Sadiq (عليه السلام)) but hardly mentioned by any of them.

As I said before and still say. The Muslims (the anti-Umayyad opposition) back then hadn't this narrowed sectarian mindset as we have nowadays. 

They co-operated, studied and corresponded with eachother.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Faruk

[Akbar673]

59 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Let's compile a list of revered Shia figures that are not given their proper status by Sunnis, according to Shia Islam... with an explanation given.

• First one that comes to mind is Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) and how they degrade him by saying he had countless divorces. If that isn't an insult to a member of the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام) then I don't what is.
• Next one, that I used to hear a lot was when a select amount of Sunni use the term Abu Turab for Imam Ali (عليه السلام). They have a different reason for using that title for him.
  • When a Shi'a uses Abu Turab (Father of the Soil), its meant as a compliment towards Imam Ali (عليه السلام) for his vast knowledge of agriculture. However, when Sunni use that its actually a back handed insult to him because they connect it to the story of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Hz. Fatima (عليه السلام) having an argument when the Imam (عليه السلام) supposedly approched her to let her know that he wanted to marry a second wife to which Hz. Fatima (عليه السلام) proceeded to kick him out of the house apparently. The only place he could find to sleep that night was the open air masjid in Medina. At Fajr time supposedly the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) found him sleeping in the dust and then called him Abu Turab sarcastically because he was sleeping in the dust. 
• Thirdly, how they belittle Imam Jafar e Sadiq (عليه السلام) by saying he was just one of the many teachers that Abu Hanifa learned from. They do this to dilute his status as a high level scholar by turning him into just another jurist amongst several others, some of whom are of a higher knowledgable status than Imam Jafer e Sadiq (عليه السلام) (as if that were even possible for the era of his Imamat...).

I'm sure we can all come up with a greater list as time goes on. Just the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام) alone should be quite lengthy. Leave alone Shi'a sahabi.  Of course, you'll hear the standard Sunni response of that they don't place the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام) on the higher pedestal that we do and that due to that its not an insult from their perspective. However, while there are many Sunni that approach it from that perspective (which in my opinion is a somewhat valid point), we can not use that same excuse for Sunni that do indeed harbor malice towards the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام), specifically Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) due to the fact that held the position of Caliph.

[aaaz1618]

1 hour ago, Faruk said:

What about Zayd ibn Ali (عليه السلام) who was loved and respected by both Sunni (Abu Hanifa (رضي الله عنه)) and Shia (Jafar as-Sadiq (عليه السلام)) but hardly mentioned by any of them.

As I said before and still say. The Muslims (the anti-Umayyad opposition) back then hadn't this narrowed sectarian mindset as we have nowadays. 

They co-operated, studied and corresponded with eachother.

Totally agree. I didn't know Zayd wasn't really spoken about, from a Sunni aspect I knew but not a Shi'a aspect.

Zayd ibn Ali placed in contemporary society would be respected by people all around the world as a hero, wouldn't he? However has history caked something around his legacy that led us to be how we are with him?

[Diaz]

This is Anti Shia reactions when anything below happens 

 

When Anti Muslim insults Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and/or the holy Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)): Smile to them, treat them kindly, share love, after all the Prophet tought us to love and respect *wink*

 

When a Shia man type A’isha without saying ((رضي الله عنه).): HOW DARE YOU? MAY Allah CURSE YOU, MAY Allah PUNISH YOU THE HARDEST PUNISHMENT, INSHALLAH THE LAST MEAL YOU HADE TODAY WILL BE YOUR LAST. 

 

Anyway let’s get back to the topic

 

On 6/10/2019 at 2:33 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_ten_with_glad_tidings_of_paradise#Shiite_view

Wikipedia destroys this Hadith 

Read this :- https://www.al-Islam.org/ask/is-the-hadith-of-the-ten-promised-with-glad-tidings-of-paradise-true-who-heard-the-Prophet-(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)-narrate-it

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

The father of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Abd_al-Muttalib#fate_in_the_afterlife

The mother of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aminah#fate_in_the_afterlife

Edited June 11, 2019 by AmirioTheMuzzy

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

Father of Ibrahim (عليه السلام)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terah#islamic_tradition

https://www.al-Islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/was-azar-father-Prophet-abraham

Thanks @Guest Light

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

I absolutely cannot believe Sunnis.

Read the comments on this YouTube video. This is absolutely astounding.

 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

20 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I absolutely cannot believe Sunnis.

Why are you getting this worked up? They been opposed to Shias since Saqifah and Fadak.  

هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا أَن يَأْتِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي ظُلَلٍ مِّنَ الْغَمَامِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ وَقُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ ۚ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ تُرْجَعُ الْأُمُورُ - 2:210

Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to Allah [all] matters are returned.

^Do they expect Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to send a message that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chose Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, the Salafis in particular have forgotten and/or are being willfully ignorant about history. 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by AmirioTheMuzzy

[aaaz1618]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:47 AM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I absolutely cannot believe Sunnis.

On behalf of them I can only apologise and pray for them to be forgiven. They are ignorant and clearly haven't got the capacity to make their own conclusions. It seems a lot have a very sheltered mentality and they cannot even comprehend what they are saying or the graveness of it.

They give Muslims a bad name, I have never heard any group of people call each other dogs and want them to burn in hell or be destroyed as much as I have heard "Sunni" Muslims say to others.