Clarification

[Diaz]

Someone explain this pic pls. At hajijesus

 

edit:- the pic is not uploading. Help pls

 

edit again:- check the picture below

Edited May 31, 2019 by Diaz

[Isaam]

2 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Someone explain this pic pls. At hajijesus

? 

[Diaz]

Just now, Isaam said:

? 

It’s not accepted, what should I do now?

[Isaam]

Just now, Diaz said:

It’s not accepted, what should I do now?

Try using https://imgshare.io/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwocPnBRDFARIsAJJcf969DMoBy0g-h0gTkzPUgC9HPeQPki1P5WdhB1HgyNzwYcSaEwueUHcaAjfjEALw_wcB and then paste the link

[Diaz]

[Isaam]

2 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I see Hajijesus all over YT comments. Imam Hassan and Huessein didn’t have kids named that 

[Diaz]

1 minute ago, Isaam said:

I see Hajijesus all over YT comments. Imam Hassan and Huessein didn’t have kids named that 

Are you sure? not sure about Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but in Wikipedia it’s wtritten that Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) have a son, his name is Abu Bakr 

[Guest Ahlul Bayt Lover]

It is a shame that Salafis don't approach this discussion with the objectiveness they boast they apply to religion.

 

The two renowned Uthmans

When looking at possible Uthmans Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام)  named his son after,  two can not be ignored by any means, for they are among the notable companions of both Muhammed [saw] and Ali ibn Abi Talib. It is highly erroneous to apply polemical bias and therefore firmly concluding Ali b. Abi Talib named his son after Uthman b. Affan.

Uthman ibn Madh’un

The first is Uthman ibn Madh’un who was among the earliest converts to the religion of Islam, with historical sources stating he was the 14th Muslims to embrace the religion. He had a high degree of piety, and was loved and adored by the Prophet of God, as well as being his foster brother. He was present in the Migration to Abysyyinia, and was one of the 313 who fought in the battle of Badr. In the end, he was buried by the Prophet[saw] next to his children:  Ibrahim, Ruqayya, and Zaynab being the first Muhajir to die in Medina.
From the Muwatta of Imam Malik:
وَحَدَّثَنِي عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ أَبِي النَّضْرِ، مَوْلَى عُمَرَ بْنِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ أَنَّهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَمَّا مَاتَ عُثْمَانُ بْنُ مَظْعُونٍ وَمُرَّ بِجَنَازَتِهِ :  " ذَهَبْتَ وَلَمْ تَلَبَّسْ مِنْهَا بِشَىْءٍ 

Yahya related to me from Malik that Abu'n Nadr, the mawla of Umar ibn Ubaydullah, said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, when Uthman ibn Madhun's funeral procession passed by him, "You have gone and you were not involved in any of it."

Furthermore, according to a historical source by a scholar of Zaidi origin, Ali ibn Abi Talib named his son after Uthman ibn Madh’un. It is important to note, Zaidi’s are less anti-partisan towards the caliphs and consider them legitimate and thus have little vested interest to fabricate against the caliphs. 
The Zaidi scholar whose work will be consulted is named Abu Al Faraj. He was born roughly around 286 AH authoring the famous Maqatil al-talibiyyin, which is a book about the matyrs in the Alid line. The book was finished by 313 AH. 

Maqatil al-talibiyyin

We find here it is mentioned, of a tradition from Uthman ibn Ali [ra], from his father Ali ibn Abi Talib [as] in which Ali ibn Abi Talib [as] states that he named his son Uthman, after his brother and famous and renowned companion, Uthman ibn Madh’un [Radiyallahu anhu].
وعثمان بن علي بن أبي طالب " ع ") * وأمه أم البنين أيضا.
قال يحيى بن الحسن عن علي بن إبراهيم عن عبيد الله بن الحسن وعبد الله ابن العباس، قالا. قتل عثمان بن علي وهو ابن إحدى وعشرين سنة. وقال الضحاك المشرفي في الاسناد الأول الذي ذكرناه آنفا. إن خولي بن يزيد رمى عثمان بن علي بسهم فأوهطه وشد عليه رجل من بني أبان بن دارم فقتله وأخذ رأسه.
وعثمان بن علي الذي روى عن علي أنه قال. إنما سميته باسم أخي عثمان ابن مظعون.

Although the chain is disconnected and not given, this is a style employed in this book for brevity. We can also clearly see chains being given [blue] above, of people who had seen or met Uthman enough to report about the details of his death, and so perhaps the historian relied on these chains for the narration from Uthman ibn Ali [ra]. 
The sources of this book are particularly important, because Abu l-Faraj uses valuable sources which are not otherwise available for us. The most widely-used source by Abu l-Faraj is a book on the account of the uprising of Muhammad b. 'Abd Allah b. al-Hasan, known as al-Nafs al-Zakiyya, and his brother Ibrahim, written by Ibn Shubbah entitled Kitab Muhammad wa Ibrahim ibnay 'Abd Allah b. al-Hasan ("The Book on Muhammad and Ibrahim the Two Sons of 'Abd Allah b. al-Hasan”). Among other sources used by Abu l-Faraj with regard to the uprising of the 'Alids at the time of Mansur is the works of Zubayr b. Bakkar, Ibn Abi Khaythama, al-Waqidi, and Muhammad b. 'Ali b. Hamza al-‘Alawi.  Furthermore,Abu Al Faraj would consult sources he deemed reliable even if he omitted chains for sake of brevity Also worthy of note, Abu Al Faraj was born 286AH with access to earlier books and sources. This will be important when contrasting the above to another claim of who Ali ibn Abi Talib named his son after.

Uthman ibn Mahd’un [Radiyallahu anhu] mentioned in a number of Shia sources:

The praise of Uthman ibn Madh’un [radiyallahu anhu] can be found in several places within Shia books and sources.

[Nahjul Balagha] Ali ibn Abi Talib said said: “In the past I had one I considered a brother in the way of Allah, he became prestigious in my eyes because of how lowly he considered the world to be in his eyes, the needs of the stomach did not have sway over him, he did not long for what he did not get; if he got a thing he would not ask for more; most of his time was spent in silence, but if he spoke he silenced the other speakers and quenched the thirst of questioners, he was weak and considered weak, but at the time of seriousness he was like the lion of the forest or the serpent of the valley, he would not put forth an argument unless it was decisive. 
He would not reproach anyone in an excusable matter unless he had heard the excuse, he would not speak of any ailment except after its disappearance, he would do what he says, and would not say what he would not do, even if he could be excelled in speaking, he could not be excelled in silence; he was more eager to listen than to speak, if two things confronted him he would see which was more akin to the longing of the heart and would then oppose it [do the other].  Betake yourself to these and implement them and try to compete with each other in them. even if you cannot do it fully then know that acquiring a part is better than giving up the whole.”

قال أمير المؤمنين عليّ بن أبي طالب عليه السّلام: كان لي فيما مضى أخ في الله، وكان يُعظمه في عيني صِغرُ الدنيا في عينه، وكان خارجاً من سلطان بطنه، فلا يشتهي ما لا يجد، ولا يكثر إذا وجد، وكان أكثر دهره صامتاً، فإن قال بدّ القائلين ونقع غليل السائلين، وكان ضعيفاً مستضعفاً، فإن جاءَ الجِدّ فهو ليثُ غابٍ وصِلُّ وادٍ، لا يدلي بحجّة حتّى يأتي قاضياً، وكان لا يلومُ أحداً على ما يجد العذر في مثله حتّى يسمع اعتذارَه، وكان لا يشكو وجعاً إلاّ عند برئه، وكان يفعل ما يقول ولا يقول ما لا يفعل، وكان اذا غلب على الكلام لم يغلب على السكوت، وكان على ما يسمع أحرص منه على أن يتكلّم، وكان إذا بدهه أمران نظر أيّهما أقرب إلى الهوى فخالفه. فعليكم بهذه الاَخلاق فالزموها وتنافسُوا فيها، فإن لم تستطيعوها فاعلموا أنّ أخذ القليل خيرٌ من ترك الكثير 

 

[Al Kafi] Abi Abdillah عليه السلام said: the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه kissed Uthman b. Madh`un after his death.

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن الحسين بن سعيد، عن فضالة بن أيوب عن إسماعيل بن أبي زياد، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله قبل عثمان ابن مظعون بعد موته 

Ali b. Abi Talib عليه السلام said: when Uthman b. Madh`un died, the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله kissed him, and when he had buried him he sprinkled water on top of the soil of the grave and stretched out a piece of cloth over the grave. He [Uthman] was the first person over whose grave the Prophet stretched out a cloth. The Prophet went on to level the soil of the grave, then he called for a stone, it was said: O messenger of Allah - what will you do with it? he said: I will mark his grave by it so that I can bury my relations near him, then he placed the stone near the head of the grave.

أخبرنا عبد الله بن محمد قال أخبرنا محمد بن محمد قال حدثني موسى بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا أبي عن أبيه عن جده جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عن جده علي بن الحسين عن أبيه عن علي بن أبي طالب عليهم السلام قال لما مات عثمان بن مظعون قبله رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فلما دفنه رش على تراب القبر الماء رشا و بسط على قبره ثوبا و كان أول من بسط عليه ثوبا يومئذ و سوى عليه تراب القبر ثم قال ص علي بحجر فقيل يا رسول الله و ما تصنع به قال أعلم به قبره حتى أدفن إليه قرابتي فوضع الحجر عند رأس القبر 

- Aba Abdillah عليه السلام said: … when Ibrahim the son of the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله died the eyes of the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله overflowed with tears and he said: the eyes tear-up and the heart grieves but we do not say that which may anger our Lord, we sure are saddened because of you O Ibrahim. Then the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله saw a disparity in his grave so he levelled it out with his hand and said: when one of you does any work then he should do it well, then he said: meet up with you righteous ancestor Uthman b. Madh`un … 
عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن ابن القداح عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: ... فلما مات إبراهيم ابن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله هملت عين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله بالدموع ثم قال النبي صلى الله عليه وآله: تدمع العين ويحزن القلب ولا نقول ما يسخط الرب وإنا بك ياإبراهيم لمحزونون ثم رأى النبي صلى الله عليه وآله في قبره خللا فسواه بيده ثم قال: إذا عمل أحدكم عملا فليتقن، ثم قال: الحق بسلفك الصالح عثمان بن مظعون 
 

[Guest Ahlul Bayt Lover]

In addition, Amir-ul-mumineen , Imam Ali b. Abi Talib (عليه السلام) also had a loyal companion by the name of Uthman b. Hunayf (رضي الله عنه). This particular Uthman also famously transmits 'the tradition of the blind man' , used by both Shias and Sunnis as evidence and support of certain forms of seeking intercession. 

Uthman Ibn Hunayf

The second of the Uthmans is Uthman Ibn Hunayf, who was not only a close companion of the Prophet [saw] but lived with Ali ibn Abi Talib [as] for a considerable amount of time , being a fierce and loyal follower. He was not a random individual named Uthman Ali ibn Abi Talib would have met, but among his most ardent of companions. was one of the companions of the Prophet (s) and Imam 'Ali (a). During the Caliphate of 'Umar, he was responsible for tax of Iraq and measuring its lands (for paying tax). He was the governor of Basra from the beginning of Imam Ali's reign until a while before the Battle of Jamal. From the battle of Uhud , he was present in the battles of Islam as well as fighting on the side of Ali ibn Abi Talib. 

Thus, given that Uthman Ibn Hunayf  - it can be argued- was close if not closer to Ali ibn Abi Talib than Uthman ibn Affan, it is not a serious possibility that he named his son after Uthman ibn Hunayf?
 

[OrthodoxTruth]

16 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Are you sure? not sure about Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but in Wikipedia it’s wtritten that Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) have a son, his name is Abu Bakr 

Wikipedia is under constant siege by the Sunnis, don’t believe in everything you read on it. Sunnis constantly keep changing articles on Islam, to suit their personal agendas and views. The alleged cases of enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) marrying into the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) had been addressed countless times in the past, including the scholarly works. Imams never named their sons or daughters after those who hated and persecuted them and their family. Let’s not fall into the pit of intellectual dysfunctionality that exists in the minds of ignorant masses. 

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

Lol I see that wally all over Youtube comments. One of the regular haters, along with these 2 muppets:

The girl is a Bosnian nasibi hypocrite, one of the most hateful and consistent takfiris on Youtube comments. Yet she has a video of her singing on her account without hijab, as if that is the way of the "Salaf".

As someone said in another thread, if something was false you wouldn't spend your whole life trying to refute it 

It is like a day job for these people.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

[Guest Ahlul Bayt Lover]

As for naming their children after Umar b. al-Khattab, I hope this is useful:

Once again, people point to Umar ibn Ali [ra] , one of the matyrs of Kerbala, to allege that he named his son - without any shadow of doubt - after Umar ibn Al Khattab. The reality is, Umar was a common name, and there were a number of respected companions we Shias revere highly , including some very close to Ali [as] named Umar.

1. Umar ibn Abi Salama [radiyallahu anhu] was the adopted son of the Prophet [saw], the daughter of the pious wife, Umulmumineen Umm Salama, and was very loyal to Ali ibn Abi Talib [as], going on to defending him at Siffin and Jamal and even being given leadership positions in his administration. 

2.  The well respected Sunni scholar, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, in his book Al-Isabah vol. 4 p.587-597 mentions at least 21 of the companions who were called Umar, and this was a common name.
 

What about devoted and loyal companions of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and of Ali b. Abi Talib, such as Umar b. Abi Salama (رضي الله عنه)?:

Consider what Imam Ali b. Abi Talib (عليه السلام) has to say in this letter to Umar b. Abi Salama, who was adopted by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the son of one of the most respected wives of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and an ardent companion of Imam Ali: https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-42-Umar-ihn-abi-salamah-al-makhzumi

To `Umar ihn Abi Salamah al-Makhzumi (foster son of the Holy Prophet from Umm al-mu'minin, Umm Salamah) who was Amir al-mu'minin's Governor of Bahrain, hut whom he removed and replaced by an- Nu'man ibn Ajlan az-Zuraqi.

ومن كتاب له (عليه السلام)

إلى عمر بن أبي سلمة المخزومي

وكان عامله على البحرين، فعزله، واستعمل النعمان بن عجلان الزّرقي مكانه: 

Now, I have posted an-Nu'man ibn `Ajlan az-Zuraqi at Bahrain and have released you from that position without any blame or or reproach on you, because you managed the governorship well and discharged the obligations. Therefore, proceed to me while you are neither suspected nor rebuked, neither blamed nor guilty. I have just intended to proceed towards the recalcitrant of Syria and desired that you should be with me because you are among those on whom I rely in fighting the enemy and erecting the pillars of religion, if Allah wills. 

أَمَّا بَعْدُ، فَإِنِّي قَدْ وَلَّيْتُ النُعْمَانَ بْنَ عَجْلاَنَ الزُّرَقيَّ عَلَى الْبَحْرَيْنِ، وَنَزَعْتُ يَدَكَ، بِلاَ ذَمٍّ لَكَ، وَلاَ تَثْرِيب عَلَيْكَ، فَلَقَدْ أَحْسَنْتَ الْوِلاَيَةَ، وَأَدَّيْتَ الاْمَانَةَ، فَأَقْبِلْ غَيْرَ ظَنِين، وَلاَ مَلُوم، وَلاَ مُتَّهَم، وَلاَ مَأْثُوم، فَقَدْ أَرَدْتُ الْمَسِيرَ إِلَى ظَلَمَةِ أَهْلِ الشَّامِ، وَأَحْبَبْتُ أَنْ تَشْهَدَ مَعِي، فَإِنَّكَ مِمَّنْ أَسْتَظْهِرُ بِهِ عَلَى جِهَادِ الْعَدُوِّ، وَإِقَامَةِ عَمُودِ الدِّيِنِ، إِنْ شَاءَ اللهُ.

Additionally, there is also another historical narrative, in which Umar ibn Al Khattab changes the name of others, including that of Ali ibn Abi Talib [as]: Al Dhahabi [renowned Sunni scholar and historian] writes, in Seir A’lab Al-Nabala, Volume 4, P.134, that “He was born in the time of Umar , and so Umar named him the same as himself”
Additionally, we also find in Biladhiri, Ansab Ul-Ashraf, Vol 1. p 297, whereby he states: “Umar Ibn Al-Khattab named Ali’s son like his own name, Umar’.

 

There are also other reports of Umar ibn Al Khattab changing names:

There was an individual named Abdulrahman ibn Harith, whose father had named him Ibrahim, but Umar changed his name to Abdulrahman. Source: Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, al-isabah fi tamiz al-sahabah. Vol 5, P29.
To those unaware , Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani is a heavy weight in the field of the history of men. This does not mean his reports in these cases are definitely authentic, but it holds weight among Sunni’s.
2.   There was an individual named al-ajda’ibn malik Umar who also had his name changed to Abdulrahman.   Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, al-isabah fi tamiz al-sahabah, Vol. 1, p.186.
3. There was a person called Taltah ibn Sa’d. Umar changed his name to Moalli. Al-ootabi, Al Ansab. 

We can clearly see , according to Sunni sources, four different instances where Umar ibn Al Khattab changes the name  of individuals. One may ask, if this is true, does it not show Ali [as] consented to the actions of Umar ibn Al Khattab, by allowing him to have the honour of naming one of his sons?The answer is, absolutely not and you can not convince a Shia of this. We find an instance , according to saheeh narrations, where Umar ibn Al Khattab forcefully takes the hand of the daughter of Ali [as] for marriage: http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/umars-marriage-to-umm-kulthum.html

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ وَ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع فِي تَزْوِيجِ أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ فَقَالَ إِنَّ ذَلِكَ فَرْجٌ غُصِبْنَاهُ

From Zuraarah from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom. So he (عليه السلام) said: “That this was the farj* that was forced (coerced) from us”
Source:
Grading:
1.       Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
2.       Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad
à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 30
à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696
 

[Nader Zaveri translation - Revivingalislam]

 

We also find a very eye-opening glimpse of truth in Bukhari, whereby Ali ibn Abi Talib [as] does not want Umar to come to meet him:

“So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect `Ali much, but after her death, `Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. …Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (I.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). `Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come, `Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me?” [Saheeh al-Bukhari]
 

How did Umar b. al-Khattab react to Ali b. Abi Talib and some of the others opposing him and gathering in the house of Fatima?

“Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: ‘When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : ‘Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.’ Source: Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045. [Saheeh Chain]

 

 

[OrthodoxTruth]

2 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Lol I see that wally all over Youtube comments. One of the regular haters, along with these 2 muppets:

The girl is a Bosnian nasibi hypocrite, one of the most hateful and consistent takfiris on Youtube comments. Yet she has a video of her singing on her account without hijab, as if that is the way of the "Salaf".

As someone said in another thread, if something was false you wouldn't spend your whole life trying to refute it 

It is like a day job for these people.

 

I’ve seen her comments all over YouTube, I thought it is a troll account. Those people are so ignorant, and if she’s a Bosniak then it shows her ignorance even more as Iran was the very first and main supporter of Bosnia during the Balkan genocide(s), Saudi Wahhabia and Turkey stepped their game later on and only because of Iran. 

As for the rest, anyone realised that the biggest Shiaphobes on internet are almost always those who personally don’t even practice? You check their profiles, and they are full of liked Western music videos or guys liking/adding random skippy dressed girls. This is the tragedy of this reality, then they go and kill religious, practicing Shias while they themselves live(d) the live of kufr. 

[Diaz]

22 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Wikipedia is under constant siege by the Sunnis, don’t believe in everything you read on it. Sunnis constantly keep changing articles on Islam, to suit their personal agendas and views. The alleged cases of enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) marrying into the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) had been addressed countless times in the past, including the scholarly works. Imams never named their sons or daughters after those who hated and persecuted them and their family. Let’s not fall into the pit of intellectual dysfunctionality that exists in the minds of ignorant masses. 

Thanks brother, please link those information to me as well, I want to read it. I got mini heart attack when I saw that post.

 

23 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Lol I see that wally all over Youtube comments. One of the regular haters, along with these 2 muppets:

The girl is a Bosnian nasibi hypocrite, one of the most hateful and consistent takfiris on Youtube comments. Yet she has a video of her singing on her account without hijab, as if that is the way of the "Salaf".

As someone said in another thread, if something was false you wouldn't spend your whole life trying to refute it 

It is like a day job for these people.

 

I still remember that girl, I will never forget the day that she insulted all our Shia sisters and our Holy Imams (عليه السلام). I bet she is not Muslim. There is different between hating Shia’s and insulting the holy Imams (عليه السلام). 

[Diaz]

Guest Ahlul Bayt lover, thank you so much for posting these information. I will save them. Last question, what about Abu Bakr?

[OrthodoxTruth]

23 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Thanks brother, please link those information to me as well, I want to read it. I got mini heart attack when I saw that post.

No need for heart attack, knowledge is out there to be learned and discovered. You should watch these lecture on the topic. 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by OrthodoxTruth

[Guest Ahlul Bayt Lover]

What about Abu Bakr b. Ali (رضي الله عنه), the son of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

The crux of this argument relies on the notion that Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) literally named his son 'Abu Bakr'. If one can prove that actually, his birth name was not Abu Bakr, it lends evidence to the notion that this was a Qunya - a title, given to him, and not what he was named from birth.  His name was either Muhammed, or Ubaydallah according the most of the sources, with few stating it was Abdullah. However, we go with Muhammed Al Asghar.  


Ibn al-Sabbagh al-Maliki reported: "…and Muhammad al-Asghar whose secondary name (I.e. Kunya) was Abu Bakr and [another son of Amir al-Mu'mineen] Abdullah. They had been martyred with their brother Hussain in Karbala. Their mother is Laila daughter of Masoud…" (al-Fusul al-Muhimmah, vol. 1 p. 644)

Al-Masudi, a famous historian, has reported that Ali ibn Abi Talib  had: "eleven sons, al-Hassan and al-Hussain their mother was Fatima daughter of Allah's Apostle peace be upon him and his family" further on he mentioned: "…and Muhammad al-Asghar, his secondary name was Abu Bakr…" (al-Tanbih wa-l-Ashraf, p. 258).

This renowned Shia scholar, al-Sheikh al-Mufid has said: "Amir al-Mu'mineen may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him had a total of twenty-seven sons and daughters…" further on he mentioned: "Muhammad al-Asghar, whose secondary name was Abu Bakr, and Ubaidullah, both had been martyred alongside their brother Hussain peace be upon him in Taff, their mother is Laila daughter of Masoud al-Darimiyyah." (al-Irshad, vol. 1, p. 354).

Abu Hayyan al-Tawhidi: "…from Laila daughter of Masoud [Imam Ali] had Ubaidullah who is Abu Bakr…" (al-Basa'ir wa-l-Dhakha'ir, vol. 1, p. 214).
 

So who gave the son that Kunya?

It is important to note that Muhammed al-Asghar (Kunya Abu Bakr) was one of the last sons of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). It is therefore highly likely he would have had most of his infancy, childhood and adolescence under a potentially new father, or other relatives. It is also worth noting that given Muhammed al-Asghar joined Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Kerbala, he would have moved back to Medina from Kufa, and would therefore have been under extremely partisan an ruthless Ummayad rule directly, who loathed Ali b. Abi Talib (عليه السلام) and the children of Banu Hashim. 

It is actually rather interesting that we find evidence of the importance genealogy and naming had for the Ummayads against the Alids:

Taking the above into account, here is a report from Tarikh At-Tabari, where the infamous Umayyad Caliph decides to change the Qunya of a child who was named in honour of Ali ibn Abi Talib [as]:

"Ali b. `Abdallah b. `Abbas b. `Abd al-Muttalib. His mother was Zur'ah bt. Mishrah b. Ma`di-Karib b. Wali'ah b. Shurahbil b. Mu`awiyah b. Hujr al-Qird b. al-Harith al-Walladah b. `Amr b. Mu`awiyah b. al-Harith b. Mu`awiyah b. Thawr b. Muratti' b. Thawr, that is, Kindah. His kunyah was Abu Muhammad. 

It was reported that he was born the night `Ali b. Abi Talib, the Commander of the Faithful, was killed, in Ramadan 40/February 661. He therefore was given both the name and the kunyah of [`Ali b. Abi Talib], that is, Abu al-Hasan. `Abd al-Malik b. Marwan said to him: "By God, I shall not tolerate it that you would use both the name and the kunyah [of `Ali b. Abi Talib]." So he changed his kunyah and made it Abu Muhammad."

Here is what it states in the foot-notes:  l-Tabari, Ta'rikh, II, 1592. The matter of genealogy and family relations within the Quraysh was of crucial importance in Umayyad propaganda, which is reflected in the stance taken by `Abd al-Malik; see Sharon, "The Umayyads.

There is also another revealing tradition from al-Kafi:

"Mu'awiyah appointed Marwan ibn al-Hakam as his agent in al-Madinah and ordered him to pay a  certain salary to the young people of Quraysh which he did. Ali ibn al-Husayn, 'Alayhim al-Salam, has  said, 'I went to him and he asked, 'What is your name?' I replied, 'It is Ali ibn al-Husayn.' He then  asked, 'What is the name of your brother?' I replied, 'It is Ali.' He said, 'Ali and Ali. Is it that your  father does not want to leave any of his children without naming them all Ali?' He paid me a certain  amount. I returned to my father and informed him of what had happened. He (the Imam) said, 'Woe is  upon the son of al-Zarqa', the leather- treating man. Even if one hundred sons will be born to me I will  not give anyone of them any other name except Ali.'" [Kitab al-Kafi]

It is actually - in my view - very pertinent to note that Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) and Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) also had children who bore the Kunya 'Abu Bakr'. We don't find anyone else, not even the children of Umar b. al-Khattab having this much emphasis on the Kunya. I am hard pressed to find any other example where father and two sons all give the same Kunya within this period, and it definitely strikes me as rather suspicious. Given that Abu Bakr b. Ali, Abu Bakr b. Hasan, and Abu Bakr b. Hussain all went to Kerbala and apparently also fought, they would have been of similar ages and would have grown up under very hateful Ummayad rule in Medina. We all know of the attempt to mask the virtues of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), extol the first three Caliphs over him, and to curse his name from pulpits (widely done), and it would come as no surprise if attempts were made to spite the children of Ali and their descendants by attaching these Kunyas to them. Alternatively, given harsh Ummayad rule the Imams may have given some of their children these Kunyas to protect them.

There are reliable ahadith in Sunni books of the attempt of Marwan and the Ummayads to extol the first three Caliphs and legitimise Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Here is one:

"The Prophet (ﷺ) said: The Caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years; then Allah will give the Kingdom of His Kingdom to anyone He wills.

Sa'id told that Safinah said to him: Calculate Abu Bakr's caliphate as two years, 'Umar's as ten, 'Uthman's as twelve and 'Ali so and so. Sa'id said: I said to Safinah: They conceive that 'Ali was not a caliph. He replied: The buttocks of Marwan told a lie." [Sunan Abi Dawuud, classed as 'Hasab-Sahih-' by Al-Albani]: https://sunnah.com/abudawud/42/51

 

[Guest de trout]

1 hour ago, Diaz said:

Are you sure? not sure about Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but in Wikipedia it’s wtritten that Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) have a son, his name is Abu Bakr 

His son's name is "Father of Bakr"? Unless Imam Hassan has a grandson named Bakr, then I don't see how that could happen.

[Guest Ahlul Bayt Lover]

@Diaz

 

Brother scroll up, the post has been approved 21 hours after I posted it, so you might have missed it.