"It is not permissible to kill the apostate at all" Sayyid Reza Hosseini Nassab [Marja' Taqlid]

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

http://www.hoseini.org/Esteftaat-English.htm

I am curious about his proof/evidence for this claim, but alas I cannot read Farsi, and the English version of this particular book 'Modern Islam' is not available for download/viewing on his website.

Only the Farsi version is available for download [see download link***].

Could somebody please translate the section on Apostasy from Farsi to English for all of us to read?

Additionally, could the more learned individuals of this forum give their opinions/comments on his fatwa?

Many Thanks. JazakAllah Khair.

http://islamabc.org/
http://islamabc.org/modern.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/booka.htm

***Modern Islam in Farsi:

http://islamabc.org/q-55.pdf
http://www.hoseini.org/q-55.pdf [same link]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Links:
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English:
http://www.hoseini.org/index.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/resalah-english.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/Esteftaat-English.htm

Farsi:
http://www.hoseini.org/index.asp
http://www.hoseini.org/fat.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/esteftaat-Farsi.htm

Arabic:
http://www.hoseini.org/arabip.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/al-fat.htm
http://www.hoseini.org/Esteftaat-arabi.htm

Contact:
info@hoseini.org
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EDIT:
This is what the English version should look like (if you happen to find it)...

Edited May 30, 2019 by AmirioTheMuzzy

[Diaz]

I agree with him, God bless him.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

EDIT 2:
This book is unfortunately not listed on amazon either:
https://www.amazon.com/s?I=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3ASeyed+Reza+Hosseini+Nassab&s=relevancerank&text=Seyed+Reza+Hosseini+Nassab&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Diaz said:

I agree with him, God bless him.

 It’s just his opinion & doesn’t has any Shia Islamic basis all Shia scholars from past to now agree that Apostated person must be executed but he tries to satisfy non Muslim community on his idea 

مرتد فطری  is a person that born in a Muslim family with Muslim parents & his apostasy must be punished by death if he repents he will come to Islam again but punishment must be executed 

again but bA person who comes to Islam from non Muslim family from non Muslim parents but does apostasy  مرتد ملی

  for women in these to case must be held in prison until repenting but exciting is not for women 

but by repenting his execution becomes void 

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/مرتد_فطری

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/مرتد_ملی

http://hadana.ir/تعریف-مرتد-ملی-و-فطری-چیست/

he ruins his reputation for satisfying non Muslims by saying words against Shia Islamic teachings  he extends ruling aboutwomen about   about women over men to fool non Muslims anyway execution right is just for infallible Imam (عليه السلام)  & 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

Thanks, I agree...
https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/thoughts-apostasy-Islam-Mahdi-azizan
https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/apostacy-Islam-Sayyid-Muhammad-Rizvi
 

But could you translate his explanation from his book?
http://islamabc.org/q-55.pdf

Edit: I can't read Farsi language, so I can't even google translate it because I don't know where in the book it discusses apostasy.

Edited May 30, 2019 by AmirioTheMuzzy

[Diaz]

30 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 It’s just his opinion & doesn’t has any Shia Islamic basis all Shia scholars from past to now agree that Apostated person must be executed but he tries to satisfy non Muslim community on his idea 

مرتد فطری  is a person that born in a Muslim family with Muslim parents & his apostasy must be punished by death if he repents he will come to Islam again but punishment must be executed 

again but bA person who comes to Islam from non Muslim family from non Muslim parents but does apostasy  مرتد ملی

  for women in these to case must be held in prison until repenting but exciting is not for women 

but by repenting his execution becomes void 

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/مرتد_فطری

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/مرتد_ملی

http://hadana.ir/تعریف-مرتد-ملی-و-فطری-چیست/

he ruins his reputation for satisfying non Muslims by saying words against Shia Islamic teachings  he extends ruling aboutwomen about   about women over men to fool non Muslims anyway execution right is just for infallible Imam (عليه السلام)  & 

I know in our religion, we should execute the ex-Muslim. I personally do not support it. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 minute ago, Diaz said:

I know in our religion, we should execute the ex-Muslim. I personally do not support it. 

It’s mostly a fiqh I ruling but don’t see any Muslims country except KSA practices this ruling although it doesn’t has right to do it , it’s just right of infallible Imam (عليه السلام) even in Iran & Iraq nobody executes for this reason  

[Gaius I. Caesar]

1 minute ago, Diaz said:

I know in our religion, we should execute the ex-Muslim. I personally do not support it. 

Neither do I, forgive me if it may sound blasphemous but name one instance executing a kafir was beneficial in the 20th-21st century? @Ashvazdanghe

Everytime somebody gets executed in a Islamic country, the Islamophobic sentiments flare up. There is a correlation, brother. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

31 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

But could you translate his explanation from his book?
http://islamabc.org/q-55.pdf


Thanks your link doesn’t open ,anyway ideas of such persons that call themselves reformer or modernist in Islam always based on satisfying non Muslim based on giving their idea about matters that is not practical without presence of infallible Imam (عليه السلام) for enjoying non Muslim communities that will cause problem for Muslims & non Muslims because by their false idea people think can converts to Islam then leaves it easy without facing any consequences & make converting to Islam & doing apostasy again a cheap idea like ordering pizza that is completely wrong.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Ashvazdanghe

[Haji 2003]

As soon as I saw the words "Modern Islam", I knew that there was a problem.

[Ashvazdanghe]

25 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Neither do I, forgive me if it may sound blasphemous but name one instance executing a kafir was beneficial in the 20th-21st century? @Ashvazdanghe

Everytime somebody gets executed in a Islamic country, the Islamophobic sentiments flare up. There is a correlation, brother. 

Practically we don't have such practice in Shia Islamic countries like as Iran &Iraq but it's doing by countries like as KSA but nobody blames them for that except few humanist group but they are always blaming Iran & Iraq for KSA barbaric acts in name of Islam & again and again I repeat it's just right of Infallible Imam to excutes apostate & all people that their apostasy proved just went to prison or exiled from Iran 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

It is logical in a theocracy to have religious treason, considering the structure and foundation of such a society is built on submitting to God alone and not one's own desires, and making a specific truth claim regarding God's laws, and of course in Islam this allows for legal pluralism... That being said, historically under Islamic sharia, killing of apostates has been rare. This could be due to a number of reasons, such as burden of proof, due process of law, and having the law being designed around deterrence rather than prosecution. The law has mainly been applied to prominent cases of political importance. Regardless, I do think that an apostate proselytizing and blaspheming against Islam is high treason and thus bad for the social cohesion of a theocratic society and a violation of the social contract. The fear is not converting others, the fear is angering others, creating a sense of disunity and lack of cooperation and comradery in society.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

reformer or modernist in Islam always based on satisfying non Muslim based on giving their idea about matters that is not practical without presence of infallible Imam (عليه السلام)

Do other Maraji hold the same position as Hosseini Nassab (ha) regarding apostates? If yes, could you list some of them? Thanks

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

The fear is not converting others, the fear is angering others, creating a sense of disunity and lack of cooperation and comradery in society.

People must know Islam accepts their idea even not recognizing good but after accepting Islam they must rules & can't turn their back to Islam & leave it like other religions

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 minute ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Do other Maraji hold the same position as Hosseini Nassab (ha) regarding apostates? If yes, could you list some of them? Thanks

First He is not a verified Marja only some people gathered around him & said he is a Marja

Second : I said conclusion of fatwas rest of Marajis (ha) that all of them are against his idea ,he just extends rulling about women to men although rulling about apostate men is not applicable in non Muslim countries like as women but he just crates delusion by saying these words

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

People must know Islam accepts their idea even not recognizing good but after accepting Islam they must rules & can't turn their back to Islam & leave it like other religions

You misunderstood me... I am saying that in an Islamic society, religious treason must exist, since you will anger Muslims and cause disunity among Muslims. Thus, the fear is not that the apostate will convert Muslims away from Islam (as is commonly misconstrued in the West), but the fear is regarding the degradation of the foundation, structure, unity and cooperation of the Islamic society.

[Goswami]

He is right in a sense. Only an infallible Imam can implement Hadd/punishment. Therefore, killing of apostates in present era is haram

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

48 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

First He is not a verified Marja only some people gathered around him & said he is a Marja

Thanks for the clarification. I think he (h) is the only Marja who has such an opinion. As far as I remember (based on memory) mainstream reformists / modernists, such as Jannaati (h), Saanei (h), Tehrani (r) Fadlullah (r), Khoei (r), Sadr (r), do NOT hold this opinion. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited May 30, 2019 by AmirioTheMuzzy

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

6 minutes ago, Goswami said:

He is right in a sense. Only an infallible Imam can implement Hadd/punishment. Therefore, killing of apostates in present era is haram

Perhaps this is what is said in his book... but I can't read Farsi so I am unable to verify this.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

I prefer Sayyid Kamal Al-Haydari's explanation

 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

42 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I prefer Sayyid Kamal Al-Haydari's explanation

Sadly, I can't understand Arabic.

[Abu_Zahra]

I haven't read his bool and in general I haven't read much about this topic. What I do recall is a television debate where an academic Muslim scholar also argued against apostasy on the basis that during the lifetime of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) there are recorded instances of people leaving Islam and not being punished for it.

Wallahu a'lam 

[Abu Nur]

7 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I prefer Sayyid Kamal Al-Haydari's explanation

 

Salaam Aleikum,

I agree with him. It is very clear in the Qur'an to whom it is applied.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Abu Nur

[Mohammadi_follower]

11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Practically we don't have such practice in Shia Islamic countries like as Iran &Iraq but it's doing by countries like as KSA but nobody blames them for that except few humanist group but they are always blaming Iran & Iraq for KSA barbaric acts in name of Islam & again and again I repeat it's just right of Infallible Imam to excutes apostate & all people that their apostasy proved just went to prison or exiled from Iran 

Salam could you give references about the fact that only Imams could execute apostates ? I thought that during occultation religious scholars had the power to implement huddud also.

[Shahrukh K]

13 hours ago, Diaz said:

I know in our religion, we should execute the ex-Muslim.

Wrong statement, prove it by Qur'an.

[Diaz]

1 hour ago, Raheel Yunus said:

Wrong statement, prove it by Qur'an.

I don’t have any prove, a lot of religious people said that. 

[SoRoUsH]

سلام

Explore the following helpful narrations:

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/01/punishment-for-apostate-in-Islam.html

[313_Waiter]

15 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Everytime somebody gets executed in a Islamic country, the Islamophobic sentiments flare up. There is a correlation, brother. 

This extends to someone who is not executed as well, like Salman Rushdie.

[313_Waiter]

Not saying what Sayed Ammar is saying is right by the way, just posting a few links that support Sayyid Reza’s views.

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

5 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Salam could you give references about the fact that only Imams could execute apostates ? I thought that during occultation religious scholars had the power to implement huddud also.

It's a conclusion from what happened under Islamic laws in Iran after revolution that nobody executed for apostasy until now even after confirming their apostasy

[Mohammadi_follower]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It's a conclusion from what happened under Islamic laws in Iran after revolution that nobody executed for apostasy until now even after confirming their apostasy

There had been some people condemned to death for blasphemy you remember? 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

9 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I agree with him. It is very clear in the Qur'an to whom it is applied.

Apologies, but I can't speak Arabic. Who did he say it applies to? Please translate. Thanks.

[Goswami]

7 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Salam could you give references about the fact that only Imams could execute apostates ? I thought that during occultation religious scholars had the power to implement huddud also.

Shaykh Tusi wrote: "With regard to the implementation of border penalties (Hudud), its implementation is not allowed except the God-appointed rulers of the time or that which the Imam to appointed to carry it out." [An -Nihayah, page 300 ]

قال شيخ الطائفة الطوسي رضي الله عنه: فأما إقامة الحدود, فليس يجوز لأحد إقامتها إلا لسلطان الزمان المنصوب من قبل الله تعالى أو من نصبه الإمام لإقامتها

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

4 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/01/punishment-for-apostate-in-Islam.html

Who is this guy and why is he grading ahadith?

[Mohammadi_follower]

1 hour ago, Goswami said:

Shaykh Tusi wrote: "With regard to the implementation of border penalties (Hudud), its implementation is not allowed except the God-appointed rulers of the time or that which the Imam to appointed to carry it out." [An -Nihayah, page 300 ]

قال شيخ الطائفة الطوسي رضي الله عنه: فأما إقامة الحدود, فليس يجوز لأحد إقامتها إلا لسلطان الزمان المنصوب من قبل الله تعالى أو من نصبه الإمام لإقامتها

I am not really sure that most scholars agree with that. By the way if we don't apply huddud which punishments are we supposed to applicate?