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In the Name of God بسم الله
Revert1963

Why do people hate the Quranist stand?

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While I would not call my self a distinct Quranist, (I simply has to little knowledge to choose either), I do think the Quranists has a good argument. The message given to Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم وعائلته) is what is written in the Qur'an. And that must be the foremost authority to Muslims. The Hadith is hear say. As far as I understand the word "hadith" means something that people has said about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم وعائلته). That means that the hadith is not divine revelation. Even scholars admit that many hadith's are fake, invented by people trying to forward their own agenda. In the first centuries AH a lot of Christian's, Jew's, Zoroastrian's, Manichean's and polytheist's converted to Islam out of convenience. Many of them brought with them their own theology which must have produced a number of hadith's. So in the worst case scenario the hadith's is letting the mistakes in the back door that these other religions made, and that the Qur'an has been send to correct.
I am not saying that all hadith's are fake, but why do people shun the word Quranist and speak of the Quranist stand in derogatory terms.

Edited by Revert1963
added curtesy

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There are those who reject hadiths if they contradict the Qur'an or pander to certain caliphate agendas, I fall into this category and I am thankful to Allah that He gave me such a view instead of being a Salafi.

Then there are those that reject all hadiths. 

People erroneously bunch the two together and assume anyone who is 'Qur'anist' means the latter, when actually it doesn't. 

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:salam:

 

Real quranists ponder more over the Qur'an, and that surely is a benefit for them. I myself benefitted from some of their lectures.

What becomes problematic is when they get too far from what we call the sunnah e.g. leaving canonical prayers, denying tawasul etc... 

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Guest YaBaqir

Qur'an is the clearest and easiest book to understand, what makes it difficult is the dark sorcery on the hearts and minds from Iblis and his forces. Without Ahlul Bayt help to clarify Qur'an, the Qur'an will lead to confusion and people will hold on what is unclear rather then it's clear bright signs.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed Qur'an slowly, and so the Prophet complimented it as it was revealed. The words of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) like professors who keep in mind the text book, always keep in mind the Qur'an. 

Their words and actions and Qur'an go together. That, and that Qur'an came to establish obedience to the true Kings appointed by God.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Because of Thaqalayn. 

Neither the Qur'an nor the Ahlul Bayt can be properly understood without one another. 

 

:salam:

Apart from the obvious verses about ahl el Beit (عليه السلام) I think they understand much better than many. 

Just by their study of semantics used throughout the Qur'an they can determine what really would mean such or such verb or noun, like 'strike' or 'pure', and reach another meaning that would be consistent over the whole book when 'traditionalists' as they call us would have interpretated them in different ways according to the surah. Not sure if I made myself clear.

Quote

Quranist do not understand the Qur'an

I would say they do not understand the shari`ah, or even do not believe in it as a juridical system.

 

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Salam Historicaly first Quranist was second caliph & after him first group   were Khswarij  in time of umnsyids & second group were Abbasids that became Qursnists & all of them rejected order of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) about imamate of Imam Ali & 11 Imams(عليه السلام)  & know radical Quranists are trying to destroy any Islamic site like as Kaaba because they know it against their understand in from Qur'an

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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22 minutes ago, realizm said:

I would say they do not understand the shari`ah, or even do not believe in it as a juridical system.

Shari'ah is Shari'ah... It's hard to be a Muslim and not at least accept that Shari'ah is a valid system. But if Allah's law says to do x and y and a hadith says to do f and g, then there is no question about it, surely? 

This is what I mean, people see the word Qur'anist and think of these people who reject everything other than the Qur'an. Actually people who view Islam like this often are on a downward spiral and this is their last step before leaving the religion. Rather a Qur'anist worth giving time to is one who studies hadith, history and scripture and puts fact before falsehood, even when a majority follow such falsehood. Many Qur'anists are pro-Alid by the way and say that the Islam of man has been distorted certainly in the Ummayad caliphate but slightly later too.

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The quranists are missing all tafasir and things around the verses, as well as any other rulings derived from ahadith. Also, they disobey Qur'an in and of itself. The Qur'an says obey the Prophet, so you must listen to the Prophet. This means taking ahadith.

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There are aspects of validity in the sense of critical consideration to what constitutes valid and authoritative but the thing that Qur'anists fail to understand is how fallacious they end up being through the new self-contradictory dogmas they employ. Some things they bring up are useful but also require a wider and deeper exploration of Hadith collections to really actually determine the validity of their position. Basically the Qur'anist generally determines the conclusion before reaching it, than going through a process to determine the conclusion. 

Also they seem to fall for a false-comparison when it comes to things like Karaite Judasim and Solar Scriptora (in Christianity). The nature of the Judeo-Christian Bible in relation to the Talmud and Catholic Church is categorically not an applicable comparison (which they usually work under the impression of) by the very nature of the text of the Bible itself in comparison to the Qur'an. One (Qur'an) is a received revelation (even if non-Muslims deny that it is) that in the first context is speaking to Muhammad himself, the other (Bible) is a compilation of linear narratives that claim to be a historical account and also include hymns and letters. 

There is also another fallacy I see them pulling, which is the assertion that the nature of Hadith itself is there to mislead or distort the Qur'an by nature and that reading the Qur'an alone as it is somehow equates to the only true (or an objective) understanding of the Qur'an and the theology, metaphysics, morals/ethics and philosophy/ontology it reveals. This view can manifest within some people as the dogma of "Those who accept Hadith are going to Jahannam", it's entirely illogical by the Qur'an's own standards which asserts a deeper understanding of the afterlife and what this life's purpose is.

It's as if these people think that the Islamic position (whether Sunni or Shi'ite) is that all Hadith are infallible and non-debatable and that Hadith are more central to our Faith than the Qur'an, both of which are wrong and absurd views. 

Edited by HakimPtsid

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5 hours ago, 7ssein said:

The quranists are missing all tafasir and things around the verses, as well as any other rulings derived from ahadith. Also, they disobey Qur'an in and of itself. The Qur'an says obey the Prophet, so you must listen to the Prophet. This means taking ahadith.

I don't know what dogma the Quranist has com to and since they have existed since very early on I gather that they probably differ in their theology. It is clear to me that in order to understand the Qur'an you need knowledge of Classical Arabic, the culture and context in which that language was spoken so some form of tafasir is obviously needed. That is also why there is a need for scholars to study this. However the Hadiths is written 200 years after the Qur'an was revealed and in most cases far away from Mecca and Medina, so their value as evidence is at best circumstantial. 
I do not know if some Quranists disobey the Qur'an, though it sounds contradictory. There are however clear cases where the hadith's contradicts the Qur'an. One example is the punishment for Zina ( الزّاني Fornicator/Adulterer) which in the Qur'an carries a penalty of a 100 lashes (Sura al-Nur ayat 2). On the other hand there is a number of Hadith's from Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and others who proscribe the death penalty. These Hadith's clearly contradicts Sura al-Nur ayat 2 in the Qur'an. And it doesn't help only to apply the death penalty to Adulterer's as Zina means both fornication and adultery. (Fortunately Shias don't need to take these hadith's into account as they are Sunni hadith's.) But I think this is a good example of how Judaic theology has tried to corrupt the message through false hadith's. If Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ‎) wanted the death penalty it would have been in Sura al-Nur.

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