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In the Name of God بسم الله
Akbar673

Christians getting into Jannah

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10 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yeah... I literally said exactly this:

I.e. we don't fear Allah per se, we fear losing our connection and love for Allah.


Anyways, my point was that having no attainable truth prevents any form of accountability or justice in this life and the hereafter, AND it means that there is no straight path, thus no way of seeking closeness to Allah.

Well. Sorry. I was tired last night. But glad I could back you up. I didn't say there was no attainable truth. Obviously, the Church holds there is and the Church is the best source of it. But that doesn't mean other faiths have none or that the adherents thereof don't go to heaven.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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On May 23, 2019 at 11:25 PM, baqar said:

It is a pity that people make assumptions about others when they have absolutely no idea who they are talking to.

That, I think, is monstrously rude. 

It is a greater pity that the Muslim mindset is gravitating to a Muslim only joy in the afterlife, with Shias and Sunnis and all others taking over the best part for themselves   

Well, let us wait and see.

I'm personally just fine with sharing heaven with Muslims. I don't care who gets in. No skin off my nose. It's God's business.

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On May 24, 2019 at 12:36 AM, Abu Nur said:

But Christians do believe in "There is no God but One God". Yes they have beliefs that may contradict some of Quranic verses, like for example Jesus sacrificing, but how such a thing take people to disbelief? One group of Christians clearly believe and practices what is mention in Qur'an 3:113-115, and such a Christians do believe in one God.

What group would that be?

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On May 24, 2019 at 3:24 AM, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

Abu Nur, I made this point already two or three pages ago. I will reiterate, I said there are Christians that believe in there is no God but One God. These Christians are to get Jannah. 

The other point is that not all today’s Christians follow this. They believe in the Trinity like in the verse you saw above. This type of Christianity has been masterfully mixed in as Christianity to make people believe that Jesus is part God or son of God. Also Making it seem like it takes three to make one God. That’s why the Qur'an revealed the verse above. This my friend is Shirk. This type of Christian according to Qur'an does not attain Jannah. Shirk pertains to this verse below. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Now back to what I was saying. Many people are born to Christian homes in which the trinity is the belief but not all people born into Christian homes accept the trinity. They do not believe a man is God. Trust me I live in a mostly Christians country. They either choose not believe in God or they become Muslim or some even Buddhist because they like the good teaching of kindness to each other. 

Allah knows who those tawhid believers are even if they don’t come to Al-Islam itself. Tawhid is the actually principle of Islam. Also known as Hanif from Abraham’s time. Abraham’s religion was Hanif. The principle belief in One God is the reason we call the Judaism, true  Christianity, and Islam the three Abrahamic religions. The Christianity you see now has been hijacked and the Babylonian trinity theme started by Nimrods wife has been implemented into Christianity. It’s the great deception. 

The rebellious disbelievers masquerade themselves in Christianity posing as religious convincing people that Jesus is God and or the Son of God. This is not the same Christianity of Jesus Ummah. 

Imagine if Muslims said that Muhammad was the son of God or that Muhammad was God and that it takes three divine entities to form one God??? Now what do you have? Allah said that he would protect his Qur'an and religion.   

Alhamdulilah, Those Muslims who don’t get any of what I’m saying  I recommend that you talk to your local Marja so you can get better understanding. Everything I said here goes along with the Qur'an. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Certainly they disbelieve who say, ‘Surely Allah is the third (person) of Three’; and there Is no God but One God.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:73)

So....which Marja told you to look up the likes of Alexander Hislop ( not exactly a scriptural scholar and a vehement anti-Catholic with little understanding of church history and an over-active imagination) and Herbert W. Armstrong ( a self-proclaimed " apostle" whose own followers rejected his ideas? ) I suspect most Marjas are smarter than that.  Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

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On May 23, 2019 at 4:23 PM, baqar said:

And as I said before, it will be far more useful trying to improve ourselves than talking about others.

God will take care of them.

It is not your business or mine.

Apart from causing hurt to our Christian readers, I doubt if anyone has gained anything out of this futile discussion.

If agree with your first three statements. I am touched by the fourth.

However, I personally don't get hurt, just occasionally frustrated  by the quality of the debate. 

In the end, there's nothing I can do about Muslims' ( or anyone else's) opinions about me. I just wish they weren't based on theological and historical  garbage and sometimes a lack of critical thinking skills.

Pretty sure Muslims would like the same respect.

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9 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

So....which Marja told you to look up the likes of Alexander Hislop ( not exactly a scriptural scholar and a vehement anti-Catholic with little understanding of church history and an over-active imagination) and Herbert W. Armstrong ( a self-proclaimed " apostle" whose own followers rejected his ideas? ) I suspect most Marjas are smarter than that.  Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

Alhamdulilah, 

LeftcoastMom, I’ll give you one snide comment a thread. And you already got that one snide comment in earlier in this thread. Snide comments at this point seems to be the only constructive info you can deliver. For someone who says they have a PhD you have had very little to contribute on a topic that deals with your very own faith. Go look at all your comments in this thread? Nothing significant at all. 

Quote

Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

Can we get please get Marty from the other Christian thread. At least she comes with her bible verses and some presentation. As a Christian She has more passion and brings at least something to the table. Leftcoast mom, You mention how you are disappointed by the the quality of debate here when you don’t even have any info to bring into this thread. When this discussion was hot you were quieter than a mouse. Get off your high horse Ma’am. Your ego proceeds itself. If you’re too high and mighty, sit to the side and let those with knowledge discuss. 

The simple matter of fact is that a 6 year old can see that there are pagan roots embedded in the trinity from the Babylonians, to the Egyptians, Hindus, etc. 

Not exactly Rocket science....

Anything else you want to say?  We both can snide comment all day. I’m your huckleberry. :rolleyes: 

But hopefully we don’t take that direction. Be humble like Marty and start Bringing some of your so called PhD knowledge with you because right now it’s absent.  

 

Now on another note, My Apologies to the other brother who quoted me asking for narration. As you know Thursday and Friday’s are very significant to us and especially being Ramadhan last 10 days and anniversary of Ali Amir Al Mu’minin (عليه السلام) attack. 

This is a very special time for me Alhamdulilah. The 19th of Ramadhan is when I had a dream about Muhammad SAW and Ali (عليه السلام) both in the same dream. This dream lead to my conversion to Shia Islam. It forced me to study about the history of this religion and Shia Islam. Didn’t mean to bail on the conversation. 

This is good conversation. We are all here to learn from each other.  

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Guest Soy yo

People have different definitions of Heaven. Interestingly, the Old Testament (the oldest sacred Scripture of the 3 Abrahamic faiths) barely mentions such a place.

The New Testament and the Qur'an mention Heaven more, though with obvious differences. For example, the Christian version of Heaven does not include marriage according to Jesus. unlike the Muslim version.

Some Christians believe that the only way to enter Heaven is by accepting Jesus as one's Savior, which obviously excludes Muslims. Personally, the idea has always bothered me. 

Anyways, this question and the responses are interesting. 

If I may, can I ask a question? If there was no Heaven, no life after death, would you still be a Muslim or a Christian? Is Heaven your main motivation for your belief? 

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8 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

LeftcoastMom, I’ll give you one snide comment a thread. And you already got that one snide comment in earlier in this thread. Snide comments at this point seems to be the only constructive info you can deliver. For someone who says they have a PhD you have had very little to contribute on a topic that deals with your very own faith. Go look at all your comments in this thread? Nothing significant at all. 

Can we get please get Marty from the other Christian thread. At least she comes with her bible verses and some presentation. As a Christian She has more passion and brings at least something to the table. Leftcoast mom, You mention how you are disappointed by the the quality of debate here when you don’t even have any info to bring into this thread. When this discussion was hot you were quieter than a mouse. Get off your high horse Ma’am. Your ego proceeds itself. If you’re too high and mighty, sit to the side and let those with knowledge discuss. 

The simple matter of fact is that a 6 year old can see that there are pagan roots embedded in the trinity from the Babylonians, to the Egyptians, Hindus, etc. 

Not exactly Rocket science....

Anything else you want to say?  We both can snide comment all day. I’m your huckleberry. :rolleyes: 

But hopefully we don’t take that direction. Be humble like Marty and start Bringing some of your so called PhD knowledge with you because right now it’s absent.  

 

Now on another note, My Apologies to the other brother who quoted me asking for narration. As you know Thursday and Friday’s are very significant to us and especially being Ramadhan last 10 days and anniversary of Ali Amir Al Mu’minin (عليه السلام) attack. 

This is a very special time for me Alhamdulilah. The 19th of Ramadhan is when I had a dream about Muhammad SAW and Ali (عليه السلام) both in the same dream. This dream lead to my conversion to Shia Islam. It forced me to study about the history of this religion and Shia Islam. Didn’t mean to bail on the conversation. 

This is good conversation. We are all here to learn from each other.  

I've already debated in this forum for quite a while. A couple of years,  We keep going over the same tired old ground. That got boring. So, yes, by now I get snide sometimes and more often simply ignore the debates ( for the better part of a year lately) so I won't be tempted to be. But sometimes something jerks my chain and I respond in kind. It doesn't matter how many Bible verses, Church history, solid theology, or other good info from my perspective was provided in the past, it was like casting the proverbial pearls before swine in many cases. It was simply ignored or not responded to and, eventually, I  just gave up on most of it. The one Shia person who could do a decent debate with me based on actual accurate historical and theological  information (and whom I admired quite a bit) left ShiaChat a while ago ( we parted friends) because of all the" legalistic nonsense" ( his words) of his co-religionists . That was sad for me. Lost my will to debate at lot of those things after that. 

I do have a post-graduate degree, but don't have a Ph.D. Please read again. I said I learned from folks with Ph.D.s in their fields of aspects of religion because I attended a Church university. I don't think the " information" in your site will hold up to any academic scrutiny by any religious scholars of any ilk. I was personally surprised how bad it was and that someone as intelligent as you would give it any legitimacy. I've been tossed far better sites.  I've already given you a couple of reasons for distrusting yours and I've attempted to clarify the definition of a Christian for the purposes of this discussion.  I think that's at least a small contribution. 

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.    It happens.

 

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I don’t think any of us are truly qualified to answer these questions. However, I’ve thought of an analogy that may be helpful.

We are all in a class (ie this world) taking an exam. Some are more familiar with the exam than others and argue on its format and content. Some believe the exam is a myth. Some prepare a lot and others don’t prepare at all.

There’s special study notes available that helps tremendously with this exam. Some have it, others don’t. Some of the ones who have the notes don’t use it. Others use different notes, some are similar while others are different. Some notes are original, others are inherited copies. Some notes are correct, others with errors. Some think their notes are right, others doubt their notes. Some have strikethroughs, others highlights, others footnotes. Some wish they could find better notes. Some are stubborn in their notes, confident in their notes, others don’t care about their notes. 

Regardless, everyone has the potential to pass this exam. Because until the exam is taken and the results given, nobody knows how anyone will do, therefore that potential will always be greater than zero.

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I've already debated in this forum for quite a while. A couple of years,  We keep going over the same tired old ground. That got boring. So, yes, by now I get snide sometimes and more often simply ignore the debates ( for the better part of a year lately) so I won't be tempted to be. But sometimes something jerks my chain and I respond in kind. It doesn't matter how many Bible verses, Church history, solid theology, or other good info from my perspective was provided in the past, it was like casting the proverbial pearls before swine in many cases. It was simply ignored or not responded to and, eventually, I  just gave up on most of it. The one Shia person who could do a decent debate with me based on actual accurate historical and theological  information (and whom I admired quite a bit) left ShiaChat a while ago ( we parted friends) because of all the" legalistic nonsense" ( his words) of his co-religionists . That was sad for me. Lost my will to debate at lot of those things after that. 

I do have a post-graduate degree, but don't have a Ph.D. Please read again. I said I learned from folks with Ph.D.s in their fields of aspects of religion because I attended a Church university. I don't think the " information" in your site will hold up to any academic scrutiny by any religious scholars of any ilk. I was personally surprised how bad it was and that someone as intelligent as you would give it any legitimacy. I've been tossed far better sites.  I've already given you a couple of reasons for distrusting yours and I've attempted to clarify the definition of a Christian for the purposes of this discussion.  I think that's at least a small contribution. 

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.    It happens.

 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

 

Just remind them about this verse.  :)

 

ادْعُ إِلِى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ

 

 

16:125 CALL THOU (all mankind] unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the most kindly manner- [149] for, behold, thy Sustainer knows best as to who strays from His path, and best knows He as to who are the right-guided.
 
M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.  

You don't owe an explanation to anyone how you spend your time. 

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