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Akbar673

Christians getting into Jannah

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10 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

One hadith that sheds positive light on Christians...Can you think of one?

The hadith corpus is a massive spaghetti bowl.

But listen to this.

According to Professor Reynold, 

"Ali was so popular even among non-Muslims that when he died, all the Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians of Kufa, particularly their women and children who were personally looked after by Ali, lamented his death and wept as one does for one’s father.

Mourning was observed even in Jerusalem and the Lord Bishop also could not restrain his tears."

This quote comes from "Ali the Magnificent" by Yusuf Lalljee, published in Bombay, India, in the 1950's or 1960's.

It basically shows how Imam Ali treated the non-Muslims of his day. 

And I am sure that if there was any Internet in his time, he would have forbidden the mud-flinging that is so much a part of our modern culture.

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On 6/11/2019 at 3:17 AM, Son of Placid said:

Muhammad didn't say, You be Shia, you be Sunni. 

Yes, he did.

He actually said very clearly that Ali was to succeed him as community leader.

And this he did at the very launch of his mission when Ali was barely in his teens, if that. 

The actual words are "‘Behold my brother, my vizier, my vicegerent, let all listen to his words, and obey him."

Mark those words carefully. 

Apart from declaring Ali his vizier and vicegerent, he demanded that the young Ali should be obeyed.  

How much clearer can one be?

Not much.

This account is NOT disputed by Muslims of any denomination..

In other words, he told Muslims to be Shias.

(The word Shia just means a votary).

Sunnis have never denied those words.

But when the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) died, everything was forgotten, until Ali was clearly sidelined.

And those responsible for sidelining Ali later came to  be known as Sunnis.  

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:30 PM, baqar said:

Yes, he did.

He actually said very clearly that Ali was to succeed him as community leader.

And this he did at the very launch of his mission when Ali was barely in his teens, if that. 

The actual words are "‘Behold my brother, my vizier, my vicegerent, let all listen to his words, and obey him."

Mark those words carefully. 

Apart from declaring Ali his vizier and vicegerent, he demanded that the young Ali should be obeyed.  

How much clearer can one be?

Not much.

This account is NOT disputed by Muslims of any denomination..

In other words, he told Muslims to be Shias.

(The word Shia just means a votary).

Sunnis have never denied those words.

But when the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) died, everything was forgotten, until Ali was clearly sidelined.

And those responsible for sidelining Ali later came to  be known as Sunnis.  

I know Imam Ali was named, and in turn Muslims were told to be Shia, but Muhammad didn't tell anyone to be Sunni. 

What would Muhammad think of Sunni?

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3 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I know Imam Ali was named, and in turn Muslims were told to be Shia, but Muhammad didn't tell anyone to be Sunni. 

What would Muhammad think of Sunni?

I replaced the terms "Shi'a" and "Sunni" in your post and replaced them with the bold terms below. When I reworded your post, it made things a lot more clear to me as to the nature of your question. Apologies for altering your post, but this is how I worded it in my head.

3 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I know Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was named, and in turn Muslims were told to follow Imam Ali(عليه السلام) after the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))dies, but the Prophet Muhammad((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) didn't tell Muslims to not follow Imam Ali (عليه السلام). 

What would the Prophet Muhammad((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) think of those Muslims that do not follow Imam Ali(عليه السلام) after the death of the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) despite him telling them to?

As you can see...when I replaced the terms "Shi'a" and "Sunni"...it made your question a bit self-answering for me.

Your thoughts?

In answer to your re-worded question, I think the answer would be that he would consider them as those that did not listen to what he told them to do.

Edited by Akbar673
formatting cleanup

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On June 10, 2019 at 11:13 AM, hasanhh said:

Hi Leftie:

I have read/researched this article's theme a few times.

"Pagan" here is relative to how you define it and what practices are similar. In the expansion of the Catholic Church, many local customs and a few superstitions were retained by the bishops and missionaries. The last paper on this I read was in Lithuania and how this barely changed in a millennium.

I think we're discussing two different things here: retention of some cultural customs vs. the development of basic theology.

It's  pretty common for an introduced religion to pick up some prior customs. According to my SIL, Islam does, too, in different ways in different areas. I don't think most Christians even remember the origins of Christmas trees or Easter Eggs and it doesn't interfere with their faith.

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