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Akbar673

Christians getting into Jannah

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10 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yeah... I literally said exactly this:

I.e. we don't fear Allah per se, we fear losing our connection and love for Allah.


Anyways, my point was that having no attainable truth prevents any form of accountability or justice in this life and the hereafter, AND it means that there is no straight path, thus no way of seeking closeness to Allah.

Well. Sorry. I was tired last night. But glad I could back you up. I didn't say there was no attainable truth. Obviously, the Church holds there is and the Church is the best source of it. But that doesn't mean other faiths have none or that the adherents thereof don't go to heaven.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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On May 23, 2019 at 11:25 PM, baqar said:

It is a pity that people make assumptions about others when they have absolutely no idea who they are talking to.

That, I think, is monstrously rude. 

It is a greater pity that the Muslim mindset is gravitating to a Muslim only joy in the afterlife, with Shias and Sunnis and all others taking over the best part for themselves   

Well, let us wait and see.

I'm personally just fine with sharing heaven with Muslims. I don't care who gets in. No skin off my nose. It's God's business.

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On May 24, 2019 at 12:36 AM, Abu Nur said:

But Christians do believe in "There is no God but One God". Yes they have beliefs that may contradict some of Quranic verses, like for example Jesus sacrificing, but how such a thing take people to disbelief? One group of Christians clearly believe and practices what is mention in Qur'an 3:113-115, and such a Christians do believe in one God.

What group would that be?

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On May 24, 2019 at 3:24 AM, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

Abu Nur, I made this point already two or three pages ago. I will reiterate, I said there are Christians that believe in there is no God but One God. These Christians are to get Jannah. 

The other point is that not all today’s Christians follow this. They believe in the Trinity like in the verse you saw above. This type of Christianity has been masterfully mixed in as Christianity to make people believe that Jesus is part God or son of God. Also Making it seem like it takes three to make one God. That’s why the Qur'an revealed the verse above. This my friend is Shirk. This type of Christian according to Qur'an does not attain Jannah. Shirk pertains to this verse below. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Now back to what I was saying. Many people are born to Christian homes in which the trinity is the belief but not all people born into Christian homes accept the trinity. They do not believe a man is God. Trust me I live in a mostly Christians country. They either choose not believe in God or they become Muslim or some even Buddhist because they like the good teaching of kindness to each other. 

Allah knows who those tawhid believers are even if they don’t come to Al-Islam itself. Tawhid is the actually principle of Islam. Also known as Hanif from Abraham’s time. Abraham’s religion was Hanif. The principle belief in One God is the reason we call the Judaism, true  Christianity, and Islam the three Abrahamic religions. The Christianity you see now has been hijacked and the Babylonian trinity theme started by Nimrods wife has been implemented into Christianity. It’s the great deception. 

The rebellious disbelievers masquerade themselves in Christianity posing as religious convincing people that Jesus is God and or the Son of God. This is not the same Christianity of Jesus Ummah. 

Imagine if Muslims said that Muhammad was the son of God or that Muhammad was God and that it takes three divine entities to form one God??? Now what do you have? Allah said that he would protect his Qur'an and religion.   

Alhamdulilah, Those Muslims who don’t get any of what I’m saying  I recommend that you talk to your local Marja so you can get better understanding. Everything I said here goes along with the Qur'an. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Certainly they disbelieve who say, ‘Surely Allah is the third (person) of Three’; and there Is no God but One God.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:73)

So....which Marja told you to look up the likes of Alexander Hislop ( not exactly a scriptural scholar and a vehement anti-Catholic with little understanding of church history and an over-active imagination) and Herbert W. Armstrong ( a self-proclaimed " apostle" whose own followers rejected his ideas? ) I suspect most Marjas are smarter than that.  Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

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On May 23, 2019 at 4:23 PM, baqar said:

And as I said before, it will be far more useful trying to improve ourselves than talking about others.

God will take care of them.

It is not your business or mine.

Apart from causing hurt to our Christian readers, I doubt if anyone has gained anything out of this futile discussion.

If agree with your first three statements. I am touched by the fourth.

However, I personally don't get hurt, just occasionally frustrated  by the quality of the debate. 

In the end, there's nothing I can do about Muslims' ( or anyone else's) opinions about me. I just wish they weren't based on theological and historical  garbage and sometimes a lack of critical thinking skills.

Pretty sure Muslims would like the same respect.

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9 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

So....which Marja told you to look up the likes of Alexander Hislop ( not exactly a scriptural scholar and a vehement anti-Catholic with little understanding of church history and an over-active imagination) and Herbert W. Armstrong ( a self-proclaimed " apostle" whose own followers rejected his ideas? ) I suspect most Marjas are smarter than that.  Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

Alhamdulilah, 

LeftcoastMom, I’ll give you one snide comment a thread. And you already got that one snide comment in earlier in this thread. Snide comments at this point seems to be the only constructive info you can deliver. For someone who says they have a PhD you have had very little to contribute on a topic that deals with your very own faith. Go look at all your comments in this thread? Nothing significant at all. 

Quote

Sorry...Your source materials re: the Trinity are a tin-foil hat train wreck. 

Can we get please get Marty from the other Christian thread. At least she comes with her bible verses and some presentation. As a Christian She has more passion and brings at least something to the table. Leftcoast mom, You mention how you are disappointed by the the quality of debate here when you don’t even have any info to bring into this thread. When this discussion was hot you were quieter than a mouse. Get off your high horse Ma’am. Your ego proceeds itself. If you’re too high and mighty, sit to the side and let those with knowledge discuss. 

The simple matter of fact is that a 6 year old can see that there are pagan roots embedded in the trinity from the Babylonians, to the Egyptians, Hindus, etc. 

Not exactly Rocket science....

Anything else you want to say?  We both can snide comment all day. I’m your huckleberry. :rolleyes: 

But hopefully we don’t take that direction. Be humble like Marty and start Bringing some of your so called PhD knowledge with you because right now it’s absent.  

 

Now on another note, My Apologies to the other brother who quoted me asking for narration. As you know Thursday and Friday’s are very significant to us and especially being Ramadhan last 10 days and anniversary of Ali Amir Al Mu’minin (عليه السلام) attack. 

This is a very special time for me Alhamdulilah. The 19th of Ramadhan is when I had a dream about Muhammad SAW and Ali (عليه السلام) both in the same dream. This dream lead to my conversion to Shia Islam. It forced me to study about the history of this religion and Shia Islam. Didn’t mean to bail on the conversation. 

This is good conversation. We are all here to learn from each other.  

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Guest Soy yo

People have different definitions of Heaven. Interestingly, the Old Testament (the oldest sacred Scripture of the 3 Abrahamic faiths) barely mentions such a place.

The New Testament and the Qur'an mention Heaven more, though with obvious differences. For example, the Christian version of Heaven does not include marriage according to Jesus. unlike the Muslim version.

Some Christians believe that the only way to enter Heaven is by accepting Jesus as one's Savior, which obviously excludes Muslims. Personally, the idea has always bothered me. 

Anyways, this question and the responses are interesting. 

If I may, can I ask a question? If there was no Heaven, no life after death, would you still be a Muslim or a Christian? Is Heaven your main motivation for your belief? 

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8 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

LeftcoastMom, I’ll give you one snide comment a thread. And you already got that one snide comment in earlier in this thread. Snide comments at this point seems to be the only constructive info you can deliver. For someone who says they have a PhD you have had very little to contribute on a topic that deals with your very own faith. Go look at all your comments in this thread? Nothing significant at all. 

Can we get please get Marty from the other Christian thread. At least she comes with her bible verses and some presentation. As a Christian She has more passion and brings at least something to the table. Leftcoast mom, You mention how you are disappointed by the the quality of debate here when you don’t even have any info to bring into this thread. When this discussion was hot you were quieter than a mouse. Get off your high horse Ma’am. Your ego proceeds itself. If you’re too high and mighty, sit to the side and let those with knowledge discuss. 

The simple matter of fact is that a 6 year old can see that there are pagan roots embedded in the trinity from the Babylonians, to the Egyptians, Hindus, etc. 

Not exactly Rocket science....

Anything else you want to say?  We both can snide comment all day. I’m your huckleberry. :rolleyes: 

But hopefully we don’t take that direction. Be humble like Marty and start Bringing some of your so called PhD knowledge with you because right now it’s absent.  

 

Now on another note, My Apologies to the other brother who quoted me asking for narration. As you know Thursday and Friday’s are very significant to us and especially being Ramadhan last 10 days and anniversary of Ali Amir Al Mu’minin (عليه السلام) attack. 

This is a very special time for me Alhamdulilah. The 19th of Ramadhan is when I had a dream about Muhammad SAW and Ali (عليه السلام) both in the same dream. This dream lead to my conversion to Shia Islam. It forced me to study about the history of this religion and Shia Islam. Didn’t mean to bail on the conversation. 

This is good conversation. We are all here to learn from each other.  

I've already debated in this forum for quite a while. A couple of years,  We keep going over the same tired old ground. That got boring. So, yes, by now I get snide sometimes and more often simply ignore the debates ( for the better part of a year lately) so I won't be tempted to be. But sometimes something jerks my chain and I respond in kind. It doesn't matter how many Bible verses, Church history, solid theology, or other good info from my perspective was provided in the past, it was like casting the proverbial pearls before swine in many cases. It was simply ignored or not responded to and, eventually, I  just gave up on most of it. The one Shia person who could do a decent debate with me based on actual accurate historical and theological  information (and whom I admired quite a bit) left ShiaChat a while ago ( we parted friends) because of all the" legalistic nonsense" ( his words) of his co-religionists . That was sad for me. Lost my will to debate at lot of those things after that. 

I do have a post-graduate degree, but don't have a Ph.D. Please read again. I said I learned from folks with Ph.D.s in their fields of aspects of religion because I attended a Church university. I don't think the " information" in your site will hold up to any academic scrutiny by any religious scholars of any ilk. I was personally surprised how bad it was and that someone as intelligent as you would give it any legitimacy. I've been tossed far better sites.  I've already given you a couple of reasons for distrusting yours and I've attempted to clarify the definition of a Christian for the purposes of this discussion.  I think that's at least a small contribution. 

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.    It happens.

 

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I don’t think any of us are truly qualified to answer these questions. However, I’ve thought of an analogy that may be helpful.

We are all in a class (ie this world) taking an exam. Some are more familiar with the exam than others and argue on its format and content. Some believe the exam is a myth. Some prepare a lot and others don’t prepare at all.

There’s special study notes available that helps tremendously with this exam. Some have it, others don’t. Some of the ones who have the notes don’t use it. Others use different notes, some are similar while others are different. Some notes are original, others are inherited copies. Some notes are correct, others with errors. Some think their notes are right, others doubt their notes. Some have strikethroughs, others highlights, others footnotes. Some wish they could find better notes. Some are stubborn in their notes, confident in their notes, others don’t care about their notes. 

Regardless, everyone has the potential to pass this exam. Because until the exam is taken and the results given, nobody knows how anyone will do, therefore that potential will always be greater than zero.

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I've already debated in this forum for quite a while. A couple of years,  We keep going over the same tired old ground. That got boring. So, yes, by now I get snide sometimes and more often simply ignore the debates ( for the better part of a year lately) so I won't be tempted to be. But sometimes something jerks my chain and I respond in kind. It doesn't matter how many Bible verses, Church history, solid theology, or other good info from my perspective was provided in the past, it was like casting the proverbial pearls before swine in many cases. It was simply ignored or not responded to and, eventually, I  just gave up on most of it. The one Shia person who could do a decent debate with me based on actual accurate historical and theological  information (and whom I admired quite a bit) left ShiaChat a while ago ( we parted friends) because of all the" legalistic nonsense" ( his words) of his co-religionists . That was sad for me. Lost my will to debate at lot of those things after that. 

I do have a post-graduate degree, but don't have a Ph.D. Please read again. I said I learned from folks with Ph.D.s in their fields of aspects of religion because I attended a Church university. I don't think the " information" in your site will hold up to any academic scrutiny by any religious scholars of any ilk. I was personally surprised how bad it was and that someone as intelligent as you would give it any legitimacy. I've been tossed far better sites.  I've already given you a couple of reasons for distrusting yours and I've attempted to clarify the definition of a Christian for the purposes of this discussion.  I think that's at least a small contribution. 

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.    It happens.

 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

 

Just remind them about this verse.  :)

 

ادْعُ إِلِى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ

 

 

16:125 CALL THOU (all mankind] unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the most kindly manner- [149] for, behold, thy Sustainer knows best as to who strays from His path, and best knows He as to who are the right-guided.
 
M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I was " quiet as a mouse" for a couple of days due to needing to deal with actual real-life stuff not related to debating the concepts of the Trinity with non-Christians, fun or non-fun as that may be.  

You don't owe an explanation to anyone how you spend your time. 

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13 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

 

Anything else you want to say?  We both can snide comment all day. I’m your huckleberry. :rolleyes: 

But hopefully we don’t take that direction. Be humble like Marty and start Bringing some of your so called PhD knowledge with you because right now it’s absent.  

 

 

Okay. As you wish. I am finishing up some work and have a few minutes to accommodate you before I have to get some sleep before Mass. Muslims , I believe, are no strangers to research regarding authenticity.

I am providing info refuting one of your main sources ( Hislop) from:

A Catholic site

A non-denominational Conservative site 

Comments from a former follower Woodrow

Here we go. Hope this helps.

*********
Is Catholicism Pagan? Catholic Answers

https://www.catholic.com/tract/is-catholicism-pagan

 

 


''The Two Babylons'' - Conservapedia


https://www.conservapedia.com/''The_Two_Babylons''

 

 

Quotes from Woodrow:
The evangelical minister Ralph Woodrow, drawing heavily on Hislop's book, made the case, which he no longer holds, in his book  Babylon Mystery Religion that Catholicism was a syncretic religion that had evolved from pagan Babylon. Mr.. Woodrow, after realizing how flawed Hislop's book was, recanted the error of his own book (Babylon Mystery Religion) and decried its and Hislop's errors and false connections.[8]
Hislop's work has been described by Bill Ellis as "sketchy knowledge of Middle Eastern antiquity with a vivid imagination."[9]
A history teacher challenged Woodrow, and called the integrity of Hislop's research into question. Mr.. Woodrow began to diligently research the subject, and as he explored the theories of Hislop, began to discover that those ideas were either fraudulent, mis-interpretations, or had created false relationships where none actually existed. Eventually, Ralph Woodrow felt compelled to remove his own book from print, and later wrote a second book "The Babylon Connection?" to further explain and refute Hislop's (and his own) mistaken ideas.[8] Woodrow had now become a critic of Hislop's 'pagan' theories. 

My original book had some valuable information in it. But it also contained certain teachings that were made popular in a book many years ago, THE TWO BABYLONS, by Alexander Hislop. This book claims that the very religion of ancient Babylon, under the leadership of Nimrod and his wife, was later disguised with Christian-sounding names, becoming the Catholic Church. Thus, two “Babylons”—one ancient and one modern. Proof for this is sought by citing numerous similarities in paganism. The problem with this method is this: in many cases there is no connection.

Mr.. Woodrow went to the original source documents and found that the analogies, links, and suppositions that Hislop had made were strained and unfounded. 

Because Hislop wrote in the mid-1800s the books he refers to or quotes are now quite old. I made considerable effort to find these old books and to check Hislop's references; books such as Layard's Nineveh and Its Remains, Kitto's Cyclopeidia of Biblical Literature, Wilkinson's Ancient Egyptians, as well as old editions of Pausanias, Pliny, Tacitus, Herodotus and many more. When I checked his footnote references, in numerous cases I discovered they do not support his claims.


As I did this [research], it became clear-Hislop's "history" was often only mythology... an arbitrary piecing together of ancient myths can not provide a sound basis for history. Take enough tribes, enough tales, enough time, jump from one time to another, from one country to another, pick and choose similarities-why anything could be "proved"! 

Woodrow also shows how Hislop's creative numerology (which he describes as no more than mere superstition) could be used to make almost any name 'add up' to the mark of the beast, including the name "The Rev Alexander Hislop." Woodrow reclaims (from supposed pagan origins) candles and lamps (which are used by Jews in the Old Testament), he also defends the practice of anointing with oil "...anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord." (James 5:14, 15 & Mat 6:13). Woodrow demonstrates the faulty logic that claims a Church steeple is a phallic symbol and the tower of Babel. According to Herodotus 425 BC. Babel was a ziggurat shape, looking nothing like a steeple. (pg 28) 
While seeking to condemn the paganism of Catholicism, Hislop produced his own myths. Hislop theorized that Nimrod, Adonis, Apollo, Attes, Ball-zebub, Bacchus, Cupid, Dagon, Hercules, Janus, Linus, Lucifer, Mars, Merodach, Mithra, Moloch, Narcissus, Oannes, Oden, Orion, Osiris, Pluto, Saturn, Teitan, Typhon, Vulcan, Wotan, and Zoroaster were all one and the same. By mixing myths, Hislop supposed that Semiramis was the wife of Nimrod and was the same as Aphrodite, Artemis, Astarte, Aurora, Bellona, Ceres, Diana, Easter, Irene, Iris, Juno, Mylitta, Proserpine, Rhea, Venus, and Vesta.

Hislop taught that Tammuz (whom he says was Nimrod) was born on December 25, and that this is the origin of the date on which Christmas is observed. Yet his supposed proof for this is taken out of context. Having taught that Isis and her infant son Horus were the Egyptian version of Semiramis and her son Tammuz he cites a reference that the son of Isis was born "about the time of the winter solstice." When we actually look up the reference he gives for this (Wilkinson’s Ancient Egyptians, vol. 4, 405), the son of Isis who was born "about the time of the winter solstice was not Horus, her older son, but Harpocrates. The reference also explains this was a premature birth, causing him to be lame, and that the Egyptians celebrated the feast of his mother’s delivery in spring. Taken in context, this has nothing to do with a December celebration or with Christmas as it is known today.


The subtitle for Hislop’s book is “The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.” Yet when I went to reference works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, The Worldbook Encyclopedia – carefully reading their articles on “Nimrod” and “Semiramis” — not one said anything about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. They did not even live in the same century. Nor is there any basis for Semiramis being the mother of Tammuz. I realized these ideas were all Hislop’s inventions.

In another appeal to Wilkinson, Hislop says that a Lent of 40 days was observed in Egypt (which Catholicism celebrates). But when we look up the reference, Wilkinson says Egyptian fasts "lasted for seven to forty-two days, and sometimes even a longer period: during which time they abstained entirely from animal food, from herbs and vegetables, and above all from the indulgence of the passions" (Wilkinson, Ancient Egyptians vol. 1, 278) With as much credibility, we could say they fasted 7 days, 10 days, 12 days, or 42 days. Hislop’s claim appears to have validity only because he used partial information.

If we based claims on partial information, we could even prove from the Bible there is not God: "…’There is no God’" (Ps. 14:1). When the entire statement is read, however, it has a different meaning: "The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’"

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't believe it matters if you're a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim, or whatever. God is a very personal God, He deals with the heart, indoctrinated or not. 
Prophets come to remind and warn but they don't start religions, their followers do. From the moment a Prophet leaves this Earth the message is degraded. What follows is disagreements and splits, hoops and hurdles, and various methods to tithe. It's not enough to go through the motions. You have to look past your religion to see God. 

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16 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

I don't believe it matters if you're a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim, or whatever. God is a very personal God, He deals with the heart, indoctrinated or not. 
Prophets come to remind and warn but they don't start religions, their followers do. From the moment a Prophet leaves this Earth the message is degraded. What follows is disagreements and splits, hoops and hurdles, and various methods to tithe. It's not enough to go through the motions. You have to look past your religion to see God. 

Agreed. Each messenger came to warn their own nation. All Abrahamic religions believe in the same God, but just in different ways.

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

Prophets come to remind and warn but they don't start religions, their followers do. From the moment a Prophet leaves this Earth the message is degraded.

I guess I’m confused. “Warn” is a verb, but “message” is a noun, and “religion” is also a noun. Aren’t the difference between these nouns just semantics?

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2 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I don't believe it matters if you're a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim, or whatever. God is a very personal God, He deals with the heart, indoctrinated or not. 
Prophets come to remind and warn but they don't start religions, their followers do. From the moment a Prophet leaves this Earth the message is degraded. What follows is disagreements and splits, hoops and hurdles, and various methods to tithe. It's not enough to go through the motions. You have to look past your religion to see God. 

"this day I have perfected your religion for you".....? Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) certainly started a religion.

 

1 hour ago, Reza said:

I guess I’m confused. “Warn” is a verb, but “message” is a noun, and “religion” is also a noun. Aren’t the difference between these nouns just semantics?

Not in my opinion if a person wants to insinuate the message was so degraded from the very start it never really became a religion. It is a wording that may be used to degrade an entire religion. Kind of like telling a person 'you're not really even human' when insulting them.

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14 hours ago, Reza said:

I guess I’m confused. “Warn” is a verb, but “message” is a noun, and “religion” is also a noun. Aren’t the difference between these nouns just semantics?

How so? The Qur'an was the message but it's the Sunnah and ahadith that formed the religion. 

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Just now, Son of Placid said:

How so? The Qur'an was the message but it's the Sunnah and ahadith that formed the religion. 

But the sunnah and ahadith originate with the Prophet. So the religion had to formed during the Prophets time, not after.

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46 minutes ago, Reza said:

But the sunnah and ahadith originate with the Prophet. So the religion had to formed during the Prophets time, not after.

The Sunnah was direct, ahadith was indirect quotes meant for guidance, or to mislead, somebody else decides. The basics for a religion were being realized but Muhammad didn't put pen to paper. He didn't make every little law you follow. 

Shortly after the death of Muhammad came a split, same as Christianity.  Until the split there was one message, after the split depended on the teacher. "Caliphate" was introduced as the leadership. Shia didn't like the first three "guided ones" but they are the ones that fine tuned Islam. 
Since then Islam is separated into many many groups, as did Christianity, all thinking their unique group was truer to the word than the rest, therefore leaving them to question if the other groups could even make it to jannah. Add the prejudice of being the only one true following and all other groups become second class. How are you trained to handle the second class?

The crux of it all, God sent a message of love, peace, and unity, men turned it to hate, war, and separation at every turn. Historically, that's what "religion" does. You have the one true belief, all others may as well be pagan. Pagans waste oxygen.

According to ahadith, tafsirs, etc. all the verses that say Christians will not grieve come with conditions. Ahadith has made sure the grey turns black. This is how you know I'm going to hell. According to the religion I once followed, Muslims are all kinds of evil, definitely going to hell. 
Sure glad God is in charge.

 

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14 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

According to ahadith, tafsirs, etc. all the verses that say Christians will not grieve come with conditions.

Everything that says Muslims will not grieve comes with conditions as well. The very act of being a Muslim comes with quite a lot of conditions.

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On 5/26/2019 at 3:23 AM, baqar said:

You don't owe an explanation to anyone how you spend your time. 

This is a difference between Christians and Muslims. Correct me any time, but in my experience Muslims admit nothing. Christians are more likely to share and admit shortcomings. It's not a weakness. Open honesty, I hope it shows. We do have our limits, mostly based on your response. I'd venture to say the veterans here know lots more about me than I know of them.

I can relate to LCM in her fatigue arguing, although I'm a little more stubborn. Like she said; It really doesn't matter what evidence you put forward, it's about acceptance. Of course, being a Shia site acceptance is not forthcoming, nor can it be encouraged. 

We have the freedom to investigate other beliefs outside our religion...NO WE DON'T. How fast do you want to be outcast? I can tell you that anyone who has been less than careful in agreeing with me, or accepting me as me, or considered my understanding as plausible is no longer here. 

What saddens me is the university students that show up here with an obvious prejudice to Christians since grade one. Tafsir al-Mizan takes no time telling Muslims what to think of Christians, and there's a whole conspiracy made up for Paul. No matter how often I prove lack of evidence of their accusations, and provide the only actual records there are, the best response I get is none, the worst goes on and on until I rail them, or the admins stop me. Either way the evidence remains flatulence. 

It's not about proving who's right or wrong, it's about proving that Christians aren't all the shallow illogical polygamists they've been taught to hate. How many times they've come and told me what I believe, and they can't accept anything more or less than the story they've been taught. Of course all Christians are going to hell. 

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

It's not about proving who's right or wrong, it's about proving that Christians aren't all the shallow illogical polygamists they've been taught to hate. How many times they've come and told me what I believe, and they can't accept anything more or less than the story they've been taught. Of course all Christians are going to hell. 

I agree. There are a lot of misconceptions about Christians, one being that they all believe Jesus (alaihi Salam) is God.

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5 hours ago, Aragaia said:

I agree. There are a lot of misconceptions about Christians, one being that they all believe Jesus (alaihi Salam) is God.

Yeah, I get that. There are a lot of misconceptions in Christianity as well. Makes it easy to pick on. It's interesting because the Bible tells a whole nuther story if you don't start with preconceived dogma. 
Many Christians don't read their Bible because they go to church and are told what it says. You can have a point that everyone agrees on, Jews/Christians/Muslims, but bring it up to the average Christian, they also agree, but have no actual backing if they ever had to argue it. 

Muhammad was given a revelation, as was Jesus, as was Moses. When they taught, they laid the foundation for a religion. What happens...Moses came down with ten commandments first, more laws were given and the law books were written, recording "commandments" such as washing earthen pots seven times between use. Rambam turned that into 613 commandments, while eliminating useless "commandments". Since then Judaism has volumes and volumes of "law" which shapes their religion. More and more laws. The question is, when did God's laws get confused with man made God laws, and how do we separate them to find truth? 

 In the case of emergency only, a Jewish surgeon is allowed to preform surgery on the Sabbath, but not alone, he must have another surgeon with him. Not exactly sure the reason, but I'm guessing two surgeons working together confuse God as to who's doing the work so God can't condemn either for working on the Sabbath. 

Jesus gave one commandment. "A new commandment I give unto you that ye love one another as I have loved you."

Jesus didn't abrogate "the Law". He challenged the man made God laws the Jews had imposed. How ridiculous were these rules? The disciples were hungry and walking through a grain field on the Sabbath. They took a handful of grain and rubbed off the chaff and ate it. The Pharisees were all over them.  What were the charges? Not trespassing, nor stealing, but the "law" states that Jews have to prepare all food for the Sabbath the day before. that includes rubbing the chaff off of grain as "preparation for a meal".

Muhammad didn't say, You be Shia, you be Sunni. 

This is why I say religions are man made.

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18 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Muhammad didn't say, You be Shia, you be Sunni. 

This is why I say religions are man made.

All of it or part of it?

I try to follow the real part of it and discard the man made part of it. But no one can see the time of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam). However I believe in the Qur'an and it says everything goes according to Allah's plan. And there are no faults in His plan. Since He gave us hope, there must be the right way somewhere.

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Thanks, I have great respect for Imam Ali. He maintained a love for mankind as did Jesus. Unfortunate Shia is such a small portion of Islam. 

Actually, Calgary has a majority Ismaeli population which is very pleasant. Then there's the rest. 

“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.” It's annoying when this philosophy is incorporated into driving habits.

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6 minutes ago, Aragaia said:

All of it or part of it?

I try to follow the real part of it and discard the man made part of it. But no one can see the time of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wassallam). However I believe in the Qur'an and it says everything goes according to Allah's plan. And there are no faults in His plan. Since He gave us hope, there must be the right way somewhere.

This is very much part of it, nobody gets to see the full context of the scriptures. The problem comes when someone assumes a context and teaches it to others. 

We've all been told our scriptures are so deep us normals could never understand it. This opens the door for anyone "authorized" to incorporate their agenda. The agenda of ahadith is anti Christian. A leader who firmly believes in ahadith can never condone a Christian at any level. 
I have a feeling that God preserved His scriptures for all humanity so why would it be too deep for the average person to understand? Why would a loving God send a message that only some can understand? A back up question, why do these "people" who do understand not agree with each other? 

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 5:56 AM, LeftCoastMom said:

Is Catholicism Pagan? Catholic Answers

https://www.catholic.com/tract/is-catholicism-pagan

Hi Leftie:

I have read/researched this article's theme a few times.

"Pagan" here is relative to how you define it and what practices are similar. In the expansion of the Catholic Church, many local customs and a few superstitions were retained by the bishops and missionaries. The last paper on this I read was in Lithuania and how this barely changed in a millennium.

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42 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Thanks, I have great respect for Imam Ali. He maintained a love for mankind as did Jesus. Unfortunate Shia is such a small portion of Islam.

Just remember that what Imam Ali says and does is the same perfect etiquette of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Allah's final messenger.

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