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In the Name of God بسم الله
Akbar673

Christians getting into Jannah

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Certainly they disbelieve who say, ‘Surely Allah is the third (person) of Three’; and there is no God but One God.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:73)

But Christians do believe in "There is no God but One God". Yes they have beliefs that may contradict some of Quranic verses, like for example Jesus sacrificing, but how such a thing take people to disbelief? One group of Christians clearly believe and practices what is mention in Qur'an 3:113-115, and such a Christians do believe in one God.

Edited by Abu Nur

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

But Christians do believe in "There is no God but One God". Yes they have beliefs that may contradict some of Quranic verses, like for example Jesus sacrificing, but how such a thing take people to disbelief? One group of Christians clearly believe and practices what is mention in Qur'an 3:113-115, and such a Christians do believe in one God.

Alhamdulilah, 

Abu Nur, I made this point already two or three pages ago. I will reiterate, I said there are Christians that believe in there is no God but One God. These Christians are to get Jannah. 

The other point is that not all today’s Christians follow this. They believe in the Trinity like in the verse you saw above. This type of Christianity has been masterfully mixed in as Christianity to make people believe that Jesus is part God or son of God. Also Making it seem like it takes three to make one God. That’s why the Qur'an revealed the verse above. This my friend is Shirk. This type of Christian according to Qur'an does not attain Jannah. Shirk pertains to this verse below. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Now back to what I was saying. Many people are born to Christian homes in which the trinity is the belief but not all people born into Christian homes accept the trinity. They do not believe a man is God. Trust me I live in a mostly Christians country. They either choose not believe in God or they become Muslim or some even Buddhist because they like the good teaching of kindness to each other. 

Allah knows who those tawhid believers are even if they don’t come to Al-Islam itself. Tawhid is the actually principle of Islam. Also known as Hanif from Abraham’s time. Abraham’s religion was Hanif. The principle belief in One God is the reason we call the Judaism, true  Christianity, and Islam the three Abrahamic religions. The Christianity you see now has been hijacked and the Babylonian trinity theme started by Nimrods wife has been implemented into Christianity. It’s the great deception. 

The rebellious disbelievers masquerade themselves in Christianity posing as religious convincing people that Jesus is God and or the Son of God. This is not the same Christianity of Jesus Ummah. 

Imagine if Muslims said that Muhammad was the son of God or that Muhammad was God and that it takes three divine entities to form one God??? Now what do you have? Allah said that he would protect his Qur'an and religion.   

Alhamdulilah, Those Muslims who don’t get any of what I’m saying  I recommend that you talk to your local Marja so you can get better understanding. Everything I said here goes along with the Qur'an. 

Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)

Certainly they disbelieve who say, ‘Surely Allah is the third (person) of Three’; and there Is no God but One God.” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:73)

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3 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

But Christians do believe in "There is no God but One God". Yes they have beliefs that may contradict some of Quranic verses, like for example Jesus sacrificing, but how such a thing take people to disbelief? One group of Christians clearly believe and practices what is mention in Qur'an 3:113-115, and such a Christians do believe in one God.

Yes but they are a minority. 

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15 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

 

Abu Nur, I made this point already two or three pages ago. I will reiterate, I said there are Christians that believe in there is no God but One God. These Christians are to get Jannah. 

 

If they know the Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) and his teachings and reject it they are not supposed to go to heaven like Muslims. 

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12 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

If they know the Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) and his teachings and reject it they are not supposed to go to heaven like Muslims. 

Alhamdulilah, 

Actually, Muhammad SAW asked for his Ummah that even those who only believed in “there is no God but Allah” shall attain Jannah at some point. They may have to pay a penalty for not accepting Muhammad however but Jannah is still attainable.   

The last man to come out Jahannam will have held on only to there is no God but Allah. These type of believers will not attain the highest parts of Jannah. It will be lower. 

 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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2 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

Actually, Muhammad SAW asked for his Ummah that even those who only believed in “there is no God but Allah” shall attain Jannah at some point. They may have to pay a penalty for not accepting Muhammad however but Jannah is still attainable.   

The last man to come out Jahannam will have held on only to there is no God but Allah. These type of believers will not attain the highest parts of Jannah. It will be lower. 

 

Hm I would like to have the narrations you are talking about if you could. Also what about the trinitarian Christians and non monothéists people? 

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20 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

The last man to come out Jahannam will have held on only to there is no God but Allah. These type of believers will not attain the highest parts of Jannah. It will be lower

Salam people like as Ibn  Muljam (la) the killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had belive to basic Islamic teachings of Islam as oneness of Allah & believing to prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) but he & Shimr (la) will never come of Jahanam althought they believed yo these two principles Also Qur'an says just believing is not enough & everyone must prove it .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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2 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

If they know the Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) and his teachings and reject it they are not supposed to go to heaven like Muslims. 

If they reject it, it is like they are rejecting their own scriptures.

Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their [own] sons. Those who will lose themselves [in the Hereafter] do not believe. Qur'an 6:20

If you are well versed with Qur'an and study the Bible, you will found so many similarities.

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10 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

If they reject it, it is like they are rejecting their own scriptures.

Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their [own] sons. Those who will lose themselves [in the Hereafter] do not believe. Qur'an 6:20

If you are well versed with Qur'an and study the Bible, you will found so many similarities.

So this here why they will not reach Jannah excepted maybe the ignorants among them.

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4 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

So this here why they will not reach Jannah excepted maybe the ignorants among them.

Those who reject Muhammad (saws) while they know he is right but reject him out of arrogance and pride sure will not reach in Jannah. Same happened with particular group of Jews who rejected Jesus (عليه السلام) because of this.

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3 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Those who reject Muhammad (saws) while they know he is right but reject him out of arrogance and pride sure will not reach in Jannah. Same happened with particular group of Jews who rejected Jesus (عليه السلام) because of this.

You mean those who know he is a true Prophet but refuse to practice Islam ?

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:salam:

Seems to me that this thread has a lot of personal opinion, selective quoting of Qur'an verses and some level of Muslim Apologeticsm going on here.

I'm not advocating that non-Muslims won't or shouldn't make it to Heaven. Allah, in his infinite Mercy and Wisdom, is the only who will make that decision. I'm also not advocating that just being Muslim guarantees you entry automatically either. We're all going to be judged accordingly by his divine judgment. I would like to believe that being a Muslim increases your chances based on the precepts of our religion (every religion in the World say that its followers are better off in the afterlife, while other religion's followers aren't, so its not something exclusive to Islam).

However, we can't start picking and choosing which Quranic verses suit our opinion, while ignoring or knowing the ones that go contrary to them. Many people are quoting verses here without knowing of, or mentioning, the complete set of verses which touch upon the topic of the afterlife for people that do not follow Islam (that was my original reason for starting this thread, I already know upon which basis Muslims will be judged, I wanted to know what the basis for Non-Muslims was).

Perhaps we should all set some time aside to first build a list of everywhere in the Qur'an that this topic is brought up? To find out every instance of this topic being discussed in our holiest text. After we have a proper list compiled, we can start researching the tafsir's of Islamic scholars (it is Ramadan after all, what better time to research Quranic data?). Until we take those steps this discussion will only be driven by personal opinions and not grounded in fact.

This is thread is just going back and forth with personal opinions in my opinion at this point. 

Edited by Akbar673

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11 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Seems to me that this thread has a lot of personal opinion, selective quoting of Qur'an verses and some level of Muslim Apologeticsm going on here.

 

Salam until time of reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) & second coming of Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) “Jesus” all people of book have excusefor not accepting Islam but after that they won’t have any excuse but before that they will judge on their actions not believing to Islam but after reappearance & second coming anybody that refuses Islam deserves Hell .

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3 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

Actually, Muhammad SAW asked for his Ummah that even those who only believed in “there is no God but Allah” shall attain Jannah at some point. They may have to pay a penalty for not accepting Muhammad however but Jannah is still attainable.   

The last man to come out Jahannam will have held on only to there is no God but Allah. These type of believers will not attain the highest parts of Jannah. It will be lower. 

 

Before I begin... I want to make it clear that I know this issue is not black and white, and the general idea is that Allah is most merciful and most just and takes into account OPPORTUNITIES and KNOWLEDGE on the day of judgment.

......

This is actually an important question that I had... does the Shia Jafari ruling [see islamquest or al-Islam] mean that eventually the inculpable ignorants will go to heaven (suffering in hell), or will it be immediate (no suffering in hell)

You bring up a good point.

If I understand you correctly, you are guessing that non-'Muslims' who do good deeds and have TAWHID belief and are culpable ignorant, will suffer in hell but will eventually make it into heaven... whereas the culpable non-'Muslims' who do SHIRK will suffer permanently in hell? [As a general rule of thumb] ...and of course we need to remember that there are different levels of Tawhid and Shirk.

This seems logical, but I don't know the truthfulness to it.

...

SHIRK is the only sin that Allah might not forgive you for, despite your sincere repentance.

This creates a new discussion...

Surely some inculpable ignorants will be punished in hell for their SHIRK before reaching heaven? The ruling implies otherwise, and possibly implies that all inculpable ignorants are treated the same, and TAWHID vs SHIRK is not taken into account.

Let me further explain...

As it stands, it makes no sense that [in general] among those who do good deeds, ignorant Sunni Muslims and ignorant People of the Book and ignorant Polytheists/Atheists are all on the same level. 

I though monotheism was part of the fitrah... is it not? The ruling states otherwise. It also doesn't take into account how much they are on the straight path. There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. This belief makes you a Muslim.  Surely that's worth much more reward than an ignorant idol worshiper.

The ruling makes more questions than it answers.

Please help us answer these complicated questions @Ibn al-Hussain

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa283

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam until time of reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) & second coming of Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) “Jesus” all people of book have excusefor not accepting Islam but after that they won’t have any excuse but before that they will judge on their actions not believing to Islam but after reappearance & second coming anybody that refuses Islam deserves Hell .

Why after the reappearance of the 12th Imam (عليه السلام), and not now? Its not like people don't know what it is anymore. In fact, for better or for worse there aren't many people in the civilized world that don't know what Islam is and who the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) was at this point. A growing amount of non-Muslims have, at the minimum, at least heard the terms Shi'a and Sunni as well. 10 years ago in the U.S. & most of Europe no one knew what Shi'a or Sunni even meant. 

As such, information about it is available to the majority of the world as to what its beliefs and views are. Qurans are available in almost every bookstore or can be read or bought online. Even those that twist the verses of the Qur'an to suit their own purposes still manage to quote the verses verbatim. 

How can any non-Muslim currently in the world have an excuse for not knowing what Islam and its beliefs are? Whether they accept, or even agree with, Islam is a different story. I don't think the majority of the world can use the excuse of not knowing what Islam is.

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4 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

So you are saying that non Muslims could go to heaven even if they don't convert to Islam while knowing some basic teachings of Islam? 

Yes, because mostly they are ignorant about it. 

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1 minute ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

My question would be very provocative but what is the interest to be Muslim if according to you even non Muslim could go easily to heaven? 

Easily? That is not an easy thing. 

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4 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

My question would be very provocative but what is the interest to be Muslim if according to you even non Muslim could go easily to heaven? 

You're very correct.
The interest is to increase one's connection with Allah (we love Allah and fear separating from Him), but this can only be done by obeying His commands and not your carnal desires I.e. submitting to the One who knows best, who created and sustains you... the only thing worthy of worship. BUT, if everyone goes to heaven, then there is no truth, life is no longer a test, and everything becomes totally meaningless... In such a case where there is no attainable truth, there is no straight path set by Allah. Submission to Allah becomes impossible if there are no rules to follow. Following Allah's message as revealed by Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and emulating his ettiquette would become void of meaning (a'udhu billah).

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On May 23, 2019 at 4:20 AM, Laayla said:

Is the fish fried in lard,or in the same oil with the chicken?  

I hope you are checking and asking  before eating at fast food restaurants. 

#checkifhallal

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

If they don't want to get in trouble with the Catholics, they need to fry it in vegetable oil with no contact with other meat. I myself avoid all meat,even fish, on the abstinence days just to make sure. But that's just me.

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9 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

How can any non-Muslim currently in the world have an excuse for not knowing what Islam and its beliefs are? Whether they accept, or even agree with, Islam is a different story. I don't think the majority of the world can use the excuse of not knowing what Islam is.

Maybe, but According to SIL, Muslims generally suck at proselytizing ( even though they tout themselves as the " fastest growing religion" they also don't keep a large fraction of converts because they also apparently suck at nurturing them. Where do I get this info?From SG's family, a couple of articles, and a few ex-Muslims who felt they were paid attention to until they were converted and then were ignored and even shunned due to not being of the correct ethnicity, etc. Apparently, they feel many are still too specifically culture-bound to integrate" outsiders" easily. Admittedly, that's not a lot of sources, but I don't think those issues can be ignored. Personally I suspect this will change quickly among American and other " western" Muslims,though, as time goes by. SG , his family, and a lot of the American Muslims in this forum seem free of those problems.)

Plus , on the receiving end, there is already a prejudice ,recently more vehement due to the world situation, against Muslims and a distaste for learning from them due to distrust, fear, and ignorance. Harder to build bridges with that going on, no matter whose " fault" it is.

Now me, I have no excuse. Lol.

 

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9 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Now me, I have no excuse.

Where have you been all this while?

We have had a lot of drama while you were away and you were the chief protagonist in that drama.

Did you check the script? 

I even contributed my mite. 

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All  Christians are Trinitarian. Its the definition of Christianity. It's a bit of an oxymoron to speak of Christians without the Trinity. It's like trying to be Muslim without Muhammed. 

Groups that do not accept the Trinity are not considered "Christian"  by Christians.

Too lazy to look it up, but one question on a Muslim site ( do t remember the sect)  a long time ago was " if I can marry a Christian woman, how do I know if she's really a Christian? " The answer from the scholar came back like he had literally lifted the definition from the book of Catholic Canon Law. The groups listed as kosher for marriage were exactly the same as those accepted by the Catholic Church for a marriage to be considered canonically as between two Christians ( therefore sacramental) was, in short: Trinitarians. Those groups rejected by the mainstream churches should also be rejected for marriage. Ergo: No Mormons for Muslims, according to this guy. 

This makes sense. The Christianity Muslims encountered in the 7th century was already doctrinally set. They believed pretty much what Christians do today. So, if Muslims found a reason to like them then,they should like them now.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, baqar said:

Where have you been all this while?

We have had a lot of drama while you were away and you were the chief protagonist in that drama.

Did you check the script? 

I even contributed my mite. 

I did, but mostly skimmed. Sorry. I've had a busy bear of a two days and just finished watching my  relatives and kids on the news. Proud of them. Proud of  your Shia Gentleman, too. He's grown into a good ally. Really brave. 

Might need to crash soon,though. So many battles and I'm not getting any younger.  Lol.

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8 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

You're very correct.
The interest is to increase one's connection with Allah (we love Allah and fear separating from Him), but this can only be done by obeying His commands and not your carnal desires I.e. submitting to the One who knows best, who created and sustains you... the only thing worthy of worship. BUT, if everyone goes to heaven, then there is no truth, life is no longer a test, and everything becomes totally meaningless... In such a case where there is no attainable truth, there is no straight path set by Allah. Submission to Allah becomes impossible if there are no rules to follow. Following Allah's message as revealed by Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and emulating his ettiquette would become void of meaning (a'udhu billah).

Or you could " follow the rules" because you love God and your neighbor, as Jesus says, and you think " the rules" are what is best for your community. Doing the right thing simply out of fear of punishment works, but it is the lowest level of morality,In my humble opinion. Even my dog does better than that. There was zero concept of hell around here locally before Christianity. It was still a well-ordered and moral place. Even the priests commented on it. Most folks here still don't worry too much about it even today to be honest,including me. Guess it's not cultural. 

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9 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

By reading you it looks like being a Muslim at the end is not so important to go to heaven but maybe I misunderstood you. 

I don't know why you came to such a conclusion. I clearly stated the Qur'anic verses 3:113-115,  and those principles are exactly same thing with Muslims too. 

Edited by Abu Nur

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Doing the right thing simply out of fear of punishment works, but it is the lowest level of morality,In my humble opinion.

Yeah... I literally said exactly this:

10 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

we love Allah and fear separating from Him

I.e. we don't fear Allah per se, we fear losing our connection and love for Allah.


Anyways, my point was that having no attainable truth prevents any form of accountability or justice in this life and the hereafter, AND it means that there is no straight path, thus no way of seeking closeness to Allah.

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download-22-1.jpg

آیت الله شهید سید عبد حسین دستغیب شیرازی

به گزارش رهیافتگان:

By: Ayatullah Shaheed Syed Abdul Husayn Dastaghaib Shirazi
There were two persons formerly Christians but later on they became Muslim. They lived in a city called Taleetah, perhaps in Morocco. I asked them the cause of their conversion. I asked them how you, former Christians, are now in deep search of Islamic truths. They replied: A few years ago, we were imprisoned in a jail. An Iraqi Muslim was also with us in our cell. Everyday he used to read Qur’an. As we did not know Arabic language, by and by we learned some words from that gentleman and began to understand a little from what he recited. One day he recited the verse:
﴿

وَاسْأَلُوا اللَّهَ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ

“…and ask Allah of His grace…
Then he also recited the verse:
﴿
ادْعُونِی أَسْتَجِبْ لَکُمْ

“Call upon Me, I will answer you…”
And he said that it was God’s Word. God also says:
﴿
وَإِذَا سَأَلَکَ عِبَادِی عَنِّی فَإِنِّی قَرِیبٌ أُجِیبُ دَعْوَهَ الدَّاعِی إِذَا دَعَانِ

“And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me…”
If you want anything, say: O Allah, yourself. You don’t have to come to the Mosque. He does not order to come and to give hand in the hand of a scholar, but He says: “Anyone from My servants who wants Me, I am near him.” God is not far. He even does not want you to complain. He only asks to seek from Him whatever you want. You can even remember Him from your heart. He knows what is there in your heart. He says it is better if you recite supplication, as it is more effective.
When I heard these two or three verses of the Holy Qur’an, I told my companion, “See what the Prophet of Islam says; ........

https://rahyafteha.ir/7853/Christian-youths-become-rightly-guided-through-holy-Qur'an/

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16 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

I would like to believe that being a Muslim increases your chances based on the precepts of our religion

Brother

That may be possible but in most cases it sounds odd that the chances of a person who is born in a Muslim home should be improved.

What has he done to become Muslim?

Nothing!

He has inherited it.

15 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

How can any non-Muslim currently in the world have an excuse for not knowing what Islam and its beliefs are? 

It is very much possible for a non-Muslim in the modern world to have a distorted view of Islam.

Because many of those who have heard of Islam's beliefs are also confronted by hundreds of stories in Islamic history and hadith that show the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) in negative light. 

17 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

This is thread is just going back and forth with personal opinions in my opinion at this point. 

Then why don't you talk to real scholars?

Why waste your time here?

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