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In the Name of God بسم الله
Isaam

Racism against Muslims

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LOL, so I was searching up Qur'an 4:157 and I clicked the first link and it was this: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/07/irony-of-quransurah-4157-158.html

have you guys ever had an incounter where you search up something about Islam and the first links are anti-Islam?

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1 hour ago, Isaam said:

LOL, so I was searching up Qur'an 4:157 and I clicked the first link and it was this: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/07/irony-of-quransurah-4157-158.html

have you guys ever had an incounter where you search up something about Islam and the first links are anti-Islam?

That's why you should only research on trusted and legit sites like Al-Islam.org.

There's too much propaganda and lies out there on the internet. Especially if you do you search in the U.S. for things like that. Over the last few years the search results have changed from legit Islamic websites to propaganda websites. In fact, just last week I was googling something and ended up with a bunch of garbage websites.

Just stick to Al-Islam.org and you'll be fine. 

http://www.duas.org/links.htm is a good set of links but not sure how many are still active.

Edited by Akbar673

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59 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

There's too much propaganda and lies out there on the internet. Especially if you do you search in the U.S. for things like that.

I wish I could change my search location to somewhere out of the United States. On that website of the link above even David wood commented on it . That’s how you know it’s anti-Muslim

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Try using Qur'an.al-Islam.org, al-mizan.org, tanzil.net, al-Qur'an.info

Remove the ' in Qur'an. I didn't realize shiachat automatically corrects it like that

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On an unrelated note, I'm in Canada and got that as this second result - after Qur'an.com ONLY - so yeah basically it was the top result for me here in Canada too :cry:

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

On an unrelated note, I'm in Canada and got that as this second result - after Qur'an.com ONLY - so yeah basically it was the top result for me here in Canada too :cry:

Second for me but close enough

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On 5/20/2019 at 8:05 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

On an unrelated note, I'm in Canada and got that as this second result - after Qur'an.com ONLY - so yeah basically it was the top result for me here in Canada too :cry:

There is nothing wrong with that verse. The Jews did want to crucify him since he was the messiah but people will say ‘He’s not the Jewish messiah so this is verse makes the Qur'an false’ the Jews were mocking the Christians that’s all

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I am very fond of Sheikh Farhan Al-Maliki and Adnan Ibrahim, but I always get Ridvan Aydemir and that David Wood suggested on the side. People must go from Mainstream Muslim to Pro-Alid/Hadith Questioners to Full Blown Islamic Critics.

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1 hour ago, Isaam said:

There is nothing wrong with that verse. The Jews did want to crucify him since he was the messiah but people will say ‘He’s not the Jewish messiah so this is verse makes the Qur'an false’ the Jews were mocking the Christians that’s all

 

Read the first comments on that blog post. Brother 'Bassam' is absolutely correct, may Allah bless him.

 

Quote
Bassam said...

"For instance, non-Christian Jews would never call Jesus “Christ” (I.e. “Messiah”), for they reject Jesus as the Messiah. Similarly, very few non-Christian Jews would call Jesus “the Messenger of Allah."

Everyone knows that the Qur'an is saying that those who said those statements were only being sarcastic. It is similar to how the Romans put a crown "King of the Jews" on Jesus' head according to the Gospels. Obviously they were being sarcastic.

"There’s also a massive theological problem, namely, that the standard Muslim interpretations of 4:157 present Allah as a deceiver who tricks people into believing false things for no reason at all."

Who said that it was for no reason at all? It was to save Jesus and there is probably much more to it than we know. It is a bold statement to say "no reason at all". It assumes that you went into God's head and saw what He was thinking at the time and came to the conclusion that He had no good reason for doing what He did. 

It is also funny how Christians claim that Muslims in reality believe Allah started Christianity. They seem to forget that Christianity does not only teach that Jesus was crucified. It also teaches that Jesus was crucified for the sins of the world and that he was God. Loool, how on Earth did Allah start that only by deceiving people into thinking that Jesus died on the cross?

"Hence, Surah 4 criticizes non-Muslims for being “full of doubts” about what happened to Jesus, and yet it leaves Muslims full of doubts about what happened to Jesus!"

The verse doesn't say that you are doubting your belief. The verse says that you follow doubts, and this is not a surprise since there are contradictions in the Gospels surrounding exactly happened during the crucifixion (time of it, who carried the cross, etc.) There were also theological disputes in the past that talked about whether it was really God who died on the cross or it was only Jesus the man or was it both, etc. 

The verse is saying that in reality you are following doubts, but it doesn't mean that you are doubting your belief. 

"Virtually all Historical Jesus scholars and New Testament scholars agree that Jesus died on the cross. Indeed, many non-Christian scholars consider Jesus’ crucifixion and death to be an indisputable fact!"

All these scholars are either Christians (so obviously they believe that Jesus was crucified) or they are atheists/agnostics who have anti supernaturalistic biases and wouldn’t allow for the Islamic belief that God made it appear that Jesus was crucified. These very same atheist/agnostic scholars don’t believe in the resurrection. David would say that it is because that they rule out miracles from the very beginning. Well exactly my point, since they will rule out miracles they would ignore what the Qur’an says and offer a natural explanation and that is that Jesus died on the cross. 

Also, the Qur’an seems to acknowledge that people in the past believed in the crucifixion of Jesus since it was Allah that made it appear to them that this is what happened. So I really don't see how the Qur'an contradicts what people in the past claimed about Jesus.

"should cause them to doubt the entire Qur’an, because its claim in Surah 4 is thoroughly refuted by the facts of history."

To say that this is a fact of history because the New Testament, Josephus, Tacitus simply say so is a joke that no rational Muslim takes seriously. This will be further discussed in our upcoming debate. 

Peace

July 22, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Quote
Bassam said...

"(1) Jews take the issue of the "Messiah" quite seriously. It would be quite odd to hear them speak of Jesus as the Messiah sarcastically and then brag about killing Him."

It was a way of mocking Jesus because they hated him. They killed Jesus and in their eyes that was proof that he wasn't the Messiah. They took the "Messiah" seriously, but not Jesus. They weren't making fun of the concept of Messiah, but were making fun of Jesus.

"(2) God didn't need to deceive thousands (billions eventually) of people in order to save Jesus. Verse 158 declares that Jesus was safe in heaven."

We can't question God's acts David, you know this. Why is your God constantly "deceiving" unitarians and Muslims into believing that He never claimed to be God because of difficult passages in the Bible? 

Why does Jesus speak in parables so that disbelievers like me can't believe and understand what he is saying?

These kinds of questions will never end. 

"(3) You're right to note that the crucifixion isn't enough to start Christianity, but it is foundational. (In philosophical terminology, we say that it's necessary but not sufficient.) That is, without the crucifixion, there would be no Christianity. Hence, without God's deceptive act, Islam's chief competitor in the world would not exist."

That is pretty far fetched David. Why not go blame God for allowing Muhammad to be so successful in "deceiving" us. Why does God allow false Prophets to perform miracles which are fundamental in leading us away from the "Christian truth"?

Also, how can we blame Allah for Christianity? The most Allah could have done is make us believe that Jesus as a true Prophet was killed by his enemies, FULL STOP. 

How Allah is responsible for people making up sayings and attributing them to Jesus is beyond me.

"If there were good evidence for the Muslim view, I'm sure these scholars would then reject it because of their anti-supernatural bias. As things stand, however, their bias doesn't enter into the matter."

So at the end of the day there is no need to provide evidence if it would be rejected? So your appealing to these nonChristians isn't really an argument at the end of the day since evidence means nothing to them. At the end, what you are really saying is that we don't have evidence for our beliefs. If that is the case, then just say that. Appealing to non-Christians means nothing.

Secondly, you assume that the only kind of evidence is "historical evidence". History is not the only criterion to use to discover truth.

"(5) To say it's not a fact simply because one writer, six centuries after the event, in a different country, said it never happened is a joke that no non-Muslim on the planet takes seriously."

Of course it would be a joke if one appealed to the Qur'an as simply a historical record. But that is not what we do. We appeal to it as God's word. If there is good evidence that it is God's word then that is all there is to it. 

We have no good reasons to believe that the Bible is the word of God. I think many Christians themselves know this, that is why they became creative and said "no, lets appeal to it as a historical record" Unfortunately for you guys, that even isn't good enough. 

"I look forward to discussing these matters in more detail in our debate."

me too.

cya

July 22, 2008 at 9:34 PM

 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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@AmirioTheMuzzythat’s so true. The Bible wasn’t even written by God. The injeel was but not the Bible. On Quora somebody asked

 

‘is Islam like the continuation of Judaism and Christianity?’

and a Christian women replied 

‘No, because Jesus taught us to love while Muslims believe their false Prophet Muhammad was a Prophet even though he was a war monger and killed many people. Go read the Koran yourself’

She was very anti-Muslim and stuff so

 

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51 minutes ago, starlight said:

Beware of  https://www.alislam.org which is an Ahmaddiya website.

On an unrelated note, we as Muslims are by far the worst at naming our websites... they are either misleading or too similar to each other.

al-Islam (Shia Jafari)
alislam (Ahmaddiya)
islamqa.info (Sunni Salafi)
islamqa.org (Sunni Deobandi - mostly)

shiatv.net (Shia Jafari)
twelvershia .net (ANTI-Shia Jafari) [TSD website]
chiite.fr (ANTI-Shia Jafari)
shiascans.com (ANTI-Shia Jafari)

...and don't even get me started on Qur'an websites, tafsir websites, news, bookstores, etc., where the names are all super similar.

To be fair though, what else could we (have) possibly name(d) them? And to be fair, the misleading ones are intentionally misleading.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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2 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

And to be fair, the misleading ones are intentionally misleading.

This^ They have purposely names those websites to create confusion and mislead people. I made a post some time back about another website http://nahjul-balagha.net. This salafi website is less than a year old and aims to create doubts and confusions about nahjul balagha.

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