Question on the different recitations of the Salwaat and when to say each...

[AStruggler]

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

 

Is one version more correct than the other?
Are there specific times when to pronounce it as "...din..." and "...diw..."? 
I heard something like we should not even say the third one at all because it separates "Muhammad" from the "aal"...Can anyone clarify and explain this further?
From my understanding, the third version is recited when we are stopping or making a small pause after Muhammad, so the tanween is not pronounced...Is this the reason?
So, when do we recite each version and why?

Edited May 20, 2019 by AStruggler

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

48 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

 2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

 

Is one version more correct than the other?
Are there specific times when to pronounce it as "...din..." and "...diw..."? 
I heard something like we should not even say the third one at all because it separates "Muhammad" from the "aal"...Can anyone clarify and explain this further?
From my understanding, the third version is recited when we are stopping or making a small pause after Muhammad, so the tanween is not pronounced...Is this the reason?
 So, when do we recite each version and why?

Pretty sure first two are correct, doesn't matter which one you say. Second one just has idgham.

Not sure about the third though.

[haideriam]

1 and 3 are correct.

[AStruggler]

2 hours ago, haideriam said:

1 and 3 are correct.

What about the second one? Would it not be correct as well? If not, why not? 

[Hassan-]

@AStruggler

There is no such word as muhammadiw. It’s either Muhammad or muhammadi. When you attach muhammadi with wa aali, it pronounces muhammadi(n). The letter ‘n’ in the end is pronounced but pronounced very silently you could barely hear it, which would technically sound like muhammadiw in a way. You could also pronounce it muhammadin without semi silencing the letter ‘n’ and it would still be correct.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Hassan-

[AStruggler]

4 hours ago, Hassan- said:

@AStruggler

There is no such word as muhammadiw. It’s either Muhammad or muhammadi. When you attach muhammadi with wa aali, it pronounces muhammadi(n). The letter ‘n’ in the end is pronounced but pronounced very silently you could barely hear it, which would technically sound like muhammadiw in a way. You could also pronounce it muhammadin without semi silencing the letter ‘n’ and it would still be correct.

If it's possible, it would be nice if you could send a video clip of it being recited this way. 

[haideriam]

22 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

 

Only two ways of pronouncing it

1. with a break........Muhammad wa Ali Muhammad

2. without a break.......Muhammadin wa Ali Muhammad

 

see there is no joining sign called a shaddah above the waw to make it sound Muhammadiw

[AMR5]

3 hours ago, haideriam said:

Only two ways of pronouncing it

1. with a break........Muhammad wa Ali Muhammad

2. without a break.......Muhammadin wa Ali Muhammad

 

see there is no joining sign called a shaddah above the waw to make it sound Muhammadiw

#2 would be the most proper way of saying the salawat.

#1 came about after the Islamic revolution of Iran, not out of a conspiracy but pretty much this is how most Iranian Shia recite it as a habit. Those of you old enough or have stayed with your older folks from yesteryears could go and check with them, the most prevalent loud salawat used to be the #2.

Another supporting point for #2 preference would be, open the Qur’an and find all the cases, where the two ‘kasra’ appear under the letter “د” - pronounced dhal-  followed by a letter “و” - pronounced wa-. In almost all cases you would be reading “din-wa” like the #2 above. 

In Qur’an recitation, the only time you would not pronounce the two kasras (to make the din sound) if there is a wqf appears with the indicator mark of “ج” or “صلے” on top of the verse, which is not the case with the salawat written above.

Hence #2 is the preferred method. 

Also ask any Arab Shia alim or even an Arab Sunni alim, he would tell you to read “din-wa”. Mine was corrected by an Arab Sunni alim, which I later verified with many Shia Iraqi ulema and the answer was the same, “do say din-wa”, same as #2 above. 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by AMR5

[Hassan-]

18 hours ago, AStruggler said:

If it's possible, it would be nice if you could send a video clip of it being recited this way. 

Watch between 2:02 to 2:10 https://youtu.be/TaBGiOPl8EU

notice how he pronounces the letter ‘n’ but it’s a bit transparent and silent.

 

 

[AStruggler]

1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

Watch between 2:02 to 2:10 https://youtu.be/TaBGiOPl8EU

notice how he pronounces the letter ‘n’ but it’s a bit transparent and silent.

 

 

Great video. He also explains why we shouldn’t say the third version of the Salwat I wrote above.

[Maisam Haider]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:07 AM, AStruggler said:

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

 

Is one version more correct than the other?
Are there specific times when to pronounce it as "...din..." and "...diw..."? 
I heard something like we should not even say the third one at all because it separates "Muhammad" from the "aal"...Can anyone clarify and explain this further?
From my understanding, the third version is recited when we are stopping or making a small pause after Muhammad, so the tanween is not pronounced...Is this the reason?
So, when do we recite each version and why?

I asked a scholar about this. He said All three are correct but have different backgrounds/reasons. 

1. This is most natural sounding to Arab people in their everyday language. But is technically incorrect from tajweed point of view. But this is how an Arab would speak normally. (Din-wa)

2. This is correct from tajweed point of view and is the best/proper way to read it. (Diw-wa). However Arabs do not speak like this normally in their everyday language. 

3. This is not wrong but not recommended either because we should not separate Muhammad from Aale Muhammad. (Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad)

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Maisam Haider

[haideriam]

I am sorry you and that speaker are all wrong. 

The waw is a joiner hence his explanation is illiterate. 

It is just 1 and 3. Let me show you an instance of 2 and it is a different recitation, see the shaddah on the waw

 

[AMR5]

8 hours ago, haideriam said:

I am sorry you and that speaker are all wrong. 

The waw is a joiner hence his explanation is illiterate. 

It is just 1 and 3. Let me show you an instance of 2 and it is a different recitation, see the shaddah on the waw

 

______________________

Ref:

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

________________________________

Like br. @haideriam said, the correct ways are only #1 and #3.

#1 to be the preferred one from what I asked and learned. 

Never heard or paid attention to #2, but true, it won’t be used until you see a “shadda” on “و” pronounces diw-wa. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by AMR5

[haideriam]

Thank you brother @AMR5

Can one see what these reciters are reading, Iraqi Arabic

It sound definitely like a din wa but could be mistaken for diw wa 

 

 

[Maisam Haider]

11 hours ago, haideriam said:

I am sorry you and that speaker are all wrong. 

The waw is a joiner hence his explanation is illiterate. 

It is just 1 and 3. Let me show you an instance of 2 and it is a different recitation, see the shaddah on the waw

 

It is a rule of tajweed that when a word ends in tanween and there is a waw after it the tanween sound "merges" with the waw...as long as you don't stop at Muhammad. That means 2 is the correct and most proper way. However , Arabic speaking individuals find it unnatural because they are used to speaking 1, which is incorrect tajweed wise, but sounds more natural for Arabs. 

For non Arabic speaking individuals, they learn the classic Arabic and thats why speak the proper way which is 2.... Muhammad -iw-

Edited May 21, 2019 by Maisam Haider

[AStruggler]

On 5/19/2019 at 8:07 PM, AStruggler said:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

On 5/20/2019 at 12:24 AM, Hassan- said:

@AStruggler

There is no such word as muhammadiw. It’s either Muhammad or muhammadi. When you attach muhammadi with wa aali, it pronounces muhammadi(n). The letter ‘n’ in the end is pronounced but pronounced very silently you could barely hear it, which would technically sound like muhammadiw in a way. You could also pronounce it muhammadin without semi silencing the letter ‘n’ and it would still be correct.

6 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

It is a rule of tajweed that when a word ends in tanween and there is a waw after it the tanween sound "merges" with the waw...as long as you don't stop at Muhammad. That means 2 is the correct and most proper way. However , Arabic speaking individuals find it unnatural because they are used to speaking 1, which is incorrect tajweed wise, but sounds more natural for Arabs. 

For non Arabic speaking individuals, they learn the classic Arabic and thats why speak the proper way which is 2.... Muhammad -iw-

9 hours ago, AMR5 said:

Like br. @haideriam said, the correct ways are only #1 and #3.

#1 to be the preferred one from what I asked and learned. 

Never heard or paid attention to #2, but true, it won’t be used until you see a “shadda” on “و” pronounces diw-wa. 

On 5/21/2019 at 12:30 AM, Maisam Haider said:

2. This is correct from tajweed point of view and is the best/proper way to read it. (Diw-wa). However Arabs do not speak like this normally in their everyday language. 

 

 

Brother @Ibn al-Hussain, there seems to be mixed say here about the validity of recitation 2). From your knowledge, is recitation 2) correct? Or is it incorrect?

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, AStruggler said:

there seems to be mixed say here about the validity of recitation 2). From your knowledge, is recitation 2) correct? Or is it incorrect?

Salam all of them are valid & correct but 1 & 3 are more popular & don't change meaning of Salawat but at first true intention is important than focusing on recitation.

[Ibn al-Hussain]

On 5/20/2019 at 4:37 AM, AStruggler said:

Salaam, so these are the 3 common salwaat recitations that I usually hear:

1) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad 

2) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammadiw wa aale Muhammad 

3) Allah humma salli a'la Muhammad, wa aale Muhammad 

All are valid and do not change anything in meaning. If you are pausing at Muhammad then #3 is the best method; if you are not pausing at Muhammad then #2 is the right way to say it according of rules of idghaam in tajweed (see 15 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoP6xT8x9Vk ). For more information see the rules of idghaam in yarmaloon in tajweed.

#1 is actually not the best method at all, whether you are pausing at Muhammad or not. You guys read the Qur'an, you know you do not read the tanween sounds at the end of verses if you pause, and if you do not pause then you have to join the letters where ever possible. Over here it is possible to join them as Muhammadiw.

On 5/21/2019 at 8:55 AM, AStruggler said:

Great video. He also explains why we shouldn’t say the third version of the Salwat I wrote above.

Ignore this video and his discussion on "gap" and "no gap". It is silly and shows he has no sense of Arabic. The "wow" in the Salawat is called 'atf and it is actually there to ensure there is no gap - whether you pause on Muhammad or not.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Ibn al-Hussain