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In the Name of God بسم الله
AmirioTheMuzzy

Reddit Question from an ex-Muslim

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From sources:

In seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage. Aisha may have been young, but she was not younger than was the norm at the time. The era in which this happened was 1400 years ago, and marriage at such a young age was a common thing back then. Not just in Arab countries but pretty much everywhere across the globe. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9–14 were married off in Europe, Asia, Africa and America.

Saint Augustine ~350AD married a 10 year old girl.

King Richard II ~1400AD married a 7 year old

Henry VIII ~1500AD married a 6 year old

Before 1929 Church of English, ministers could marry 7 year olds in Britain.

Before 1983, Catholic canon law permitted priests to marry off brides at the age of 12.

A lot of people are unaware, in the United States, in the state of Delaware in 1880, the minimum age for marriage was 7 years old and in California was 10 years old.

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The minimum legal age of marriage is not universal, it varies from one country to another and sometimes even from one state to another within a single country. The same goes for the minimum age of consent, and this is only in terms of the 21st century. To therefore apply the modern day definition of 'pedophilia' to a society that existed 14 centuries ago makes no sense. 

Regarding mut'ah, it is hardly that different from a permanent marriage except for the fact that it has a fixed duration. It's a better alternative than engaging in a permanent marriage and then divorcing the women once the war is over. 

Wallahu a'lam 

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2 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I have difficulties to understand why you pass so much time with this kind of forum full of stupidities for after putting them on Shiachat. Looks like you are very confused about your beliefs. 

I want to help others, like this brother on reddit who is seeking truth, so I will gather information and seek help from others as I am not good at writing myself. I know the answers to all these questions, and I am firm in my belief. These questions are answered all the time, and this forum used to be full of people dropping well sourced logical knowledge bombs... and I would come here to find the best answers to any given question.

Edit: there are certain users here who fully answer a question in such a beautiful logical sourced manner... I was hoping for something like that...

None of you have addressed the first question of this ex-Muslim btw... and the answer is bloody obvious but I just can't write well, but basically it's for pragmatic reasons of dealing with POW, and thus rasullulah needed special rights to manage to face the struggles of propogating the message. 

I will stop posting these reddit posts, if it bothers you all so much. But, look at these reddit comments and these comments... the answers are absolutely luck laster.

Btw, I didn't realize you were my dad, why you checking on me so much? Trust me brother, I am steadfast.

 

Wassalam

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
Please read my edits

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By the way, don't think you know a thing about me... check my reddit u/AmirioTheMuzzy and I am constantly answering "a 9 year old today is not the same as a 9 year old 1400 years ago"... I can't let a single comment go, and that's my deficiency that I need to work on [and have been working on]... Please pray for me (instead of rudely saying that I am confused in my beliefs).

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
[Brackets]

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I'm sorry but I'm really angry and hungry. I believe I have a strong connection with Allah and strong belief in Rasullah and Ahlul Bayt... alhamdulillah... inshallah

I don't like the insinuation otherwise, as if I'm some sort of atheist or murtad or politheist, who has the complete opposite of me... when my goal was to help these people find the truth and bring meaning and understanding into their lives. To know that life is a test to follow the straight path, by seeking closeness to Allah, and we submit to Allah alone and not our own desires and other pressures.

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3 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I have difficulties to understand why you pass so much time with this kind of forum full of stupidities for after putting them on Shiachat.

I have difficulties understanding your concept of time, and in what way I am wasting time by crossposting. If anything I'm wasting your time if you choose to respond, not my own.

Also, re-read Shiachat's description on its homepage... and you will see that this is the perfect place to post this stuff. I am trying to harbor a dialogue.

This ex-Muslim is severely confused and heavily mixing up ideas... it's hard to respond for mainly this reason, and also my incoherent writing, and not because of my level of belief.

JazakAllah Khair for understanding, and apologies for my spam.

Edit: I am arguably wasting time now responding to your borderline takfiri comment... but to be fair I recall you responding similarly to my previous posts like this and I'm sick of it.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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I don't see the issue, if asking people here helps you establish a response that might help someone, whether it's back to Islam or just to have a more educated opinion. 

My understanding about the wives, which could be wrong so please correct me if I am wrong, is that the verse was revealed after much of his marriages happened, it was revealed in the eighth year if I am correct? So from 629 until his death he married no more than four women, which was permissible. 

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@AmirioTheMuzzy  This comment has not to with the specific topic above.

I wish to say that you should realize that in many Reddits there is a complete scensorship or a inscincere hidden enimosity for sources as PressTV, or who go against the mainstream media narrative, etc.
I do believe there are some people on the website who are able to listen and would deserve time to explain to, etc.
I also think with posting in certain subreddits, with a relative easy work and little cost of time there can be many benefits.

Perhaps you know about subreddits like Germany, United Kingdom , Australia, Europe, etc. Also: News, Worldnews (watch out; mods are not on the good side). There you can post relevat topic. Also; History, Politics and others. 
But watch out with what you say (know that they will try to find anything to justify a ban. The Hasbara trolls are also very active there including many hating fools Islamophobes and others.

Hasbara trolls example video very informative: 

 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you success. Perhaps you already know, but never waste time on many of the fools there from whatever side or group they might be. Instead perhaps just focus on spreading in the general Reddits and on people who seem to be/are sincere and not hateful fools.

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I would like to apologize and thank you for your advice @Mohammadi_follower

You can't help everyone. Internet is full of weird and lost people so you will waste your time and really be exhausted if you continue like that. 

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1 hour ago, Reza said:

And trolls, bots, and provocateurs.

Reminds me of the "professional instigator" gold medalist in this video [hood olympics 2]: :D :hahaha:

Note: contains swear words

 

...Unfortunately, this video applies to me THIS TIME :blush: I won the gold medal.

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Look, I answered it by myself this time.

...and I'm proud of myself :pushup::yahoo:

Please Note: I have 3 seperate answers to him in the Reddit comments (not on this thread).

...And yes, this is the same guy...

...Now, I will stop wasting my time with this stuff. Insha'Allah.

Though, I may be lying to myself :liar:

...

Allahu A'lam

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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21 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

what is your name in this forum ?

u/AmirioTheMuzzy

Let me know how I did...

I doubt the guy will accept my advice though...

 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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32 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

u/AmirioTheMuzzy

Let me know how I did...

I doubt the guy will accept my advice though...

 

I must admit that on this topic (sexual relations with children) I am not at all an expert or someone very comfortable with. So I prefer let more knowledgeable brothers answer this. 

Edited by Mohammadi_follower

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4 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I must admit that on this topic (sexual relations with children) I am not at all and expert or someone very comfortable with.

Yeah, I would hope so :hahaha:

 

Sorry, I just had to...

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1 hour ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I must admit that on this topic (sexual relations with children) I am not at all an expert or someone very comfortable with. So I prefer let more knowledgeable brothers answer this. 

 

1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yeah, I would hope so :hahaha:

 

Sorry, I just had to...

Salam It’s product of mistranslation with biased mindset the exact rulling considers them as couples that are mahram like father & daughter to each other but father & daughter can’t have sexual relationship & it’s haram in Shia Islam but when a person marries to a girl in her childhood technically they are husband & wife & can have all husband-wife relationship but they can’t have sexual intercourse anyway Iranian law considers minimum age for marriage for men 15 & for women as 13 years old that based on Islam they are mature enough for marriage but for regions & tribes that marry under these ages specially for women it stops sexual relationships before becoming mature for  women.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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4 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Look, I answered it by myself this time.

...and I'm proud of myself :pushup::yahoo:

Please Note: I have 3 seperate answers to him in the Reddit comments (not on this thread).

...And yes, this is the same guy...

...Now, I will stop wasting my time with this stuff. Insha'Allah.

Though, I may be lying to myself :liar:

...

Allahu A'lam

Yeah that reddit guy is a textbook troll :hahaha:

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23 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I have difficulties to understand why you pass so much time with this kind of forum full of stupidities for after putting them on Shiachat. Looks like you are very confused about your beliefs. 

This is completely offtopic but I'm amazed by the variety of reactions to this post lol.

As for the OP topic, I find it a bit controversial to criticize mutah in the basis that it is something low compared to traditional permanent marriages but support western morality, which contemplates sexual freedom. Stopped reading after that.

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14 minutes ago, Bakir said:

This is completely offtopic but I'm amazed by the variety of reactions to this post lol.

As for the OP topic, I find it a bit controversial to criticize mutah in the basis that it is something low compared to traditional permanent marriages but support western morality, which contemplates sexual freedom. Stopped reading after that.

yes me also I was surprised to see so many different reactions ah ah.

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On 5/18/2019 at 10:03 PM, Mohammadi_follower said:

I have difficulties to understand why you pass so much time with this kind of forum full of stupidities for after putting them on Shiachat. Looks like you are very confused about your beliefs. 

I believe this is the first time I've seen all the reactions on a post/reply...

:clap:

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3 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

There is much evidence that Aisha was not 9 when she got married. 

Out of interest, do we know from sources Shi'a or otherwise, whether anybody after the Prophet, peace and blessings upon him and his family, married anyone of a similar age? As in people around his lifetime or slightly after, who took his marriage as an accepted practice? If not, and the only people we find were hundreds of years after, then maybe that says something. 

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1 hour ago, aaaz1618 said:

Out of interest, do we know from sources Shi'a or otherwise, whether anybody after the Prophet, peace and blessings upon him and his family, married anyone of a similar age? As in people around his lifetime or slightly after, who took his marriage as an accepted practice? If not, and the only people we find were hundreds of years after, then maybe that says something. 

...For starters, Shia's don't have an established age for Aisha, because we don't accept the same narrations and narrators as the Sunnis, who find her age of marriage to be 6 y/o and consummation at 9 y/o.

Further, the Qur'an and Sunnah tells us to marry based on what is culturally/socially acceptable... taking into account your time and place... and we must be both physically mature and mentally mature.

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), despite being slandered throughout his life, was never accused of pedophilia until recent history (19/20th century).... A'udhu billah.

We also know that the age of puberty and marriage has varied throughout time and place and is dependent on many factors, including genetics, nutritional state, and social circumstances.

Here's a cool Sunni infographic I found on this:

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/nuriddeen-knight/was-the-age-of-Aisha-ra-always-problematic/#.XOLoeFNMGdM

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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In-depth Sunni analysis:

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/asadullah/understanding-aishas-age-an-interdisciplinary-approach/

Shia Jafari Islamic Pulse:

Note the common (layman) Shia explanation for her possibly being 17 at marriage and 19 at consummation... which in all honestly makes more sense than the couple of hadith that Sunnis base this off of.

That being said, we should still defend Sunnis, because they're definitely correct about this being a non-issue, and there is also always the possiblity that in, let's say 200 years, (if Imam al-Mahdi (aj) has not returned... Insha'Allah he returns sooner) 19 years old may be considered a child :ko:

Islamophobes and imbeciles alike are absolutely TRAPPED in presentism and are RELENTLESS with it, and are never willing to compromise on this when proven wrong by Muslims. 

EDIT 2: I remember a Reddit thread regarding Khabib Nurmagomedov (Muslim UFC fighter) was filled with insults towards the Holy Prophet, due to his marriage with Aisha. I responded to over twenty people, back and forth, giving them these explanations, but they were totally relentless with their presentism. 12-14 they could accept but NOT 6-9 as this according to these Islam-haters it has "never been acceptable"... Which is quite funny knowing how historically Sunnis LOVED Aisha's "mother of the believers - according to Sunnis" young marriage to Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

EDIT 1: I found an article on al-Islam (Jafari Shia)

https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/how-old-was-ayshah-when-married-Prophet-Muhammad-Muhammad-husayn-al-qazwini

 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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2 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

12-14 they could accept but NOT 6-9 as this according to these Islam-haters it has "never been acceptable".

Ah, because a 12 year old isn't a child... The blokes imprisoned up on the vulnerable adult wings would love that opinion.

Yeah, it is a non-issue and I don't think we need to justify or defend the honour of our Prophet either, because we can go pink in the face and they would still not be happy. We would have to resort to lying like the self-entitled "Imam of Peace" in order to get people on our side.

Whatever age Aisha was, she was. People have literally left the religion due to getting caught up on it, and we do not even know her exact age and nobody seems to have come to an agreement.

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