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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammed-Mehdi

Austria bans Muslim girls from wearing headscarf

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https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/05/17/596164/Austria-Islamophobia-headscarf-ban 

Austria's parliament approves ban on Muslim headscarves at primary schools

Fri May 17, 2019 09:07AM [Updated: Fri May 17, 2019 09:21AM ]
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Illustrative picture show girls wearing Muslim headscarves.

Illustrative picture show girls wearing Muslim headscarves.

Austrian parliament has approved a law to ban Muslim girls from wearing headscarf in primary schools.

The approval came only six months after the right-wing coalition government announced plans to ban headscarves in kindergartens as well.

The measure, which had been proposed by chancellor Sebastian Kurz’s Right-wing coalition government, was passed with the support of the governing center-right People's Party (ÖVP) and the far-right Freedom Party (FPÖ).

Almost all opposition lawmakers voted against the measure, which they condemned as “discriminatory.”

They also expect that the move would be challenged in Austria’s constitutional court.

The ban will be applied to girls up to around the age of 10 and specifically targets Islamic headscarves.

Though the law refers to ''all head-covering clothes of ideological or religious influence,” it makes exceptions for clothing which only partly covers the hair such as Jewish and Sikh head coverings.

The government has already said it expects the law to face legal challenges.

The organization representing Austria's Muslims, The Islamic Religious Community in Austria (IGGÖ), described the law as "shameless and destructive.

It has already vowed to challenge it in the Constitutional Court on grounds of discrimination.

“The ban on headscarves in primary schools will only lead to segregation and discrimination of Muslim girls," said the government-recognized body.

The country had also passed a law in May 2017, banning Muslim women from wearing full-face veils such as burqas and niqabs in public.

Under the law, violators face a fine of 150 euros (nearly $180) and police are authorized to use force with people who resist showing their faces.

Similar restrictions, known as the “Burqa Ban,” have also been adopted in some other European Union countries like, France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

Denmark has also banned garments that cover the face late last month. Those violating the law risk a fine of 1,000 kroner (£118).

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Alhamdulilah, 

And on that same note the school board in my city just approved that girls in high school can have their underwear straps and bra straps exposed and there is a debate as to rather not there should be no skirt limit requirement. 

Alhamdulilah, May the sisters stay strong 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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4 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Though the law refers to ''all head-covering clothes of ideological or religious influence,” it makes exceptions for clothing which only partly covers the hair such as Jewish and Sikh head coverings.

This caveat in the law is a blatant slam dunk legal definition of discrimination since an argument can’t be made it pertains to multiple groups, hence not discriminatory. Its clearly crafted to affect Muslims only.

Not sure how the law works in Austria/EU but a court would easily declare it in this case. This was used to dismiss Trumps “Muslim travel ban” in US court as well. 

Anyone know about Austrian (or EU) law?

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5 hours ago, starlight said:

Only 4% of the Austrian population are Muslims.

Islam is the second largest religion in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, with results from the United Kingdom 2011 Census giving the United Kingdom Muslim population in 2011 as 2,516,000, 4.4% of the total population.

3,372,966 (2017 estimation) ÷ 66,000,000

= 5.11%

So as of 2017 it's estimated that 5% of the United Kingdom's population is Muslim, very close to Austria, but I'm sure there would be a completely different reaction if it were to happen here... 

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5 minutes ago, Ali~J said:

5% of the United Kingdom's population is Muslim, very close to Austria,

Still a minority and Britain isn't a Muslim country.I don't know why people get upset at developments like these. You choose to live in a country then you have to follow the laws. 

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36 minutes ago, starlight said:

You choose to live in a country then you have to follow the laws. 

I had no control over where I was born and it's not like I can migrate now... :sorry:

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5 minutes ago, Ali~J said:

I had no control over where I was born and it's not like I can migrate now... :sorry:

I am not saying you should migrate. I am just saying that we should not get shocked at things like these anymore. Things are going to get worse.Let's just accept it.

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

I am not saying you should migrate. I am just saying that we should not get shocked at things like these anymore. Things are going to get worse.Let's just accept it.

Yeah, scary times we are living in, here they are apparently forcing LGBTQ lessons in primary schools from Sept 2020 :(

I can't even imagine how things will be in several years time when I'm trying to raise my kids.... 

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Guest Jaal
10 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

And on that same note the school board in my city just approved that girls in high school can have their underwear straps and bra straps exposed and there is a debate as to rather not there should be no skirt limit requirement. 

Alhamdulilah, May the sisters stay strong 

What a contrast. It must be so odd for sisters living in the West, seeing women with their hair out, face full of make up, clothes fitting very tightly and effectively free-mixing, dancing, and engaging in casual pre-marital sexual relationships with other women and men. It's just so at odds with the Islamic way of life, yet it is so common now among we are desensitised to it. 

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Guest Jaal
Just now, Ali~J said:

Yeah, scary times we are living in, here they are apparently forcing LGBTQ lessons in primary schools from Sept 2020 :(

I can't even imagine how things will be in several years time when I'm trying to raise my kids.... 

Well, as Shias, we have nothing against trans people , Iran funds transexual operations. As for LGBQ, we can coexist peacefully, and we don't have to advocate for them. As for raising your kids, most Muslim majority countries are backward in healthcare, economy, education, and safety, so you're going to have to balance complete fitnah in deen verses dunya. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Jaal said:

What a contrast. It must be so odd for sisters living in the West, seeing women with their hair out, face full of make up, clothes fitting very tightly and effectively free-mixing, dancing, and engaging in casual pre-marital sexual relationships with other women and men. It's just so at odds with the Islamic way of life, yet it is so common now among we are desensitised to it. 

Alhamdulilah, 

Yeah I would imagine to a modest true believing Muslim sister it is very odd, especially with there being Muslim sisters who cover, but their cloths are just as tight and revealing as non Muslim. This also happens to be one of the signs of the last days however. Muhammad SAW narrated that Women will cover but it will be like they have no cloths on. 

Alhamdulilah, I don’t judge though. Women have their own struggles and some of those women that are in scad clothing and mixing and participating in pre marital sexual relationships don’t necessarily want that lifestyle but are pressured by society to be that way. These are usually the believers that end up finding their way to Islam. 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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1 hour ago, Guest Jaal said:

Well, as Shias, we have nothing against trans people , Iran funds transexual operations. As for LGBQ, we can coexist peacefully, and we don't have to advocate for them. As for raising your kids, most Muslim majority countries are backward in healthcare, economy, education, and safety, so you're going to have to balance complete fitnah in deen verses dunya. 

Alhamdulilah, 

Very well said, no where is perfect nor will it ever be. It’s the nature of being human and Muslim. Insha’Allah We look forward to the hereafter free from worldly problems and struggle. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Jaal said:

Well, as Shias, we have nothing against trans people , Iran funds transexual operations. As for LGBQ, we can coexist peacefully, and we don't have to advocate for them. As for raising your kids, most Muslim majority countries are backward in healthcare, economy, education, and safety, so you're going to have to balance complete fitnah in deen verses dunya. 

I've never really understood why Iran does fund those operations. Secondly I don't think we'll ever coexist with the LGBQ since they themselves are a sign of armageddon. The only reason why Muslim majority countries are behind in those sectors is because of the west, which is actually ironic. 

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6 hours ago, starlight said:

.I don't know why people get upset at developments like these. You choose to live in a country then you have to follow the laws. 

Are you talking about developments as in the article above?

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1
5 hours ago, Ali~J said:

I can't even imagine how things will be in several years time when I'm trying to raise my kids.... 

Expectation and realization
We know from our hadith etc that 'Dhulm' or oppression will increase till the return of the Imam (AJTF). At the same time opposition to this oppression, and a longing for goodness will also increase all over the world. It is not that the Imam AJTF will return, and then start spreading the idea of goodness instead of evil.
So this is what we can expect and believe. We can also see this development. 

We
We have to look at ourselves carefully, each individual, and research what are our responsibilities, priorities and (highest) goals.
I find this letter to be a great 'start'. If one can achieve this fully I believe we are doing very well, AlHamdullilaah: 

Advice from His Eminence,Sayyid Ali al-Sistani (may the Almighty prolong his life) to the Believing Youth

Also in a (or more) hadith, we find that one should not worry about death if that person: fulfilled his obligations to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), refrains from sin and has a good moral trait. (not sure about wording and sequence). If not, then that person should worry about death (and work towards these goals).
 

Great book IMO: https://www.al-Islam.org/secrets-success-ayatullah-mirza-jafar-subhani Secrets of Success

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6 hours ago, Guest Jaal said:

ell, as Shias, we have nothing against trans people

This is not true.

Some Jurists/ We make a distinction between those that say they always have felt the opposite gender etc and those that are perverse/ just a type of evil (which a lot of those transgenders are).

Also, I don't agree completely with your perspective on LBGT (or so). It is clearly one of the agenda's that are being pushed by the Zionists/Globalists/ or label them as you like. It has been pushed in the mainstream for decades now. In children books etc. This is of the work of Satan and it is one of the enemies of humanity.

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16 minutes ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Are you talking about developments as in the article above?

I meant the news about Hijab ban in Austria. 

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4 hours ago, Ali~J said:

I've never really understood why Iran does fund those operations

The Jurists who have this idea didn't just come up with it themselves. But very important is to make a distinction with those let's say ill and those perverse/Fasiqun/... 

Then, if we look at it with the right perspective I think it makes total sense. In a society, of 80+ million people, for example, you will have these people, and if Islam not nesecerally forbids these changes for some of these people, then why should we oppose it?
 

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14 minutes ago, starlight said:

I meant the news about Hijab ban in Austria. 

Ok, so I see that as a yes.

 

I do agree, things will get worse, that is a reality and we should seek the truth.
But I don't agree with: "  I don't know why people get upset at developments like these. You choose to live in a country then you have to follow the laws.".

Upset

adjective
  1. 1.
    unhappy, disappointed, or worried.

    Why should we not be unhappy because of this sin and injustice? Disappointed with a sense of realization of the blessings and what humanity could have been, is not wrong. With an unrealistic expectation, yes I agree that would not be appropriate. 
    Worried, in one way I understand if we just do what we have to do and do our best and are of that high leveled people, I can see why you would not be worried after that (in regards to some aspects). But is that the case with us individually or as communities? Not at all, most of us by far. 


    Follow the laws; of course. But this is oppression, racist (as per a definition in this Western country I live in), injustice,. We can follow the law but that doesn't mean we can't fight back. In fact, we have to do our responsibly, in this development as well. And there are opportunities we should utilize.  
     
    This is one of the Satanic actions against Islam, Muslims, and humanity. We should care. And especially in this part of the world where they claim to be the champions of human rights, very developed (while others are not), and just and sophisticated.
Edited by Mohammed-Mehdi

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13 hours ago, Reza said:

Anyone know about Austrian (or EU) law?

Courts have proven to not always do what they have to do and sometimes like in Nigeria the ruling of the top-court is being ignored. So even after a good conclusion, it didn't have the impact it should have.

As far as I know, in the EU, this law would have a great chance to be rejected (or so) normally speaking. But I don't believe all these judges are sincere and not corrupt and outside those, we also can see that certain courts/judges can be greatly influenced if the " elite " or someone focuses on a certain outcome.
I would expect Austria to have similar laws or ideas about these matters compared to other Western countries.

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Iran has a compulsory hijab law, KSA also has a dress code for females,in Malaysia there is a law that you cannot enter some government buildings if you are not properly covered up(females). All women, whether local or foreigners are expected to obey these laws. 

Public displays of affection which are a norm in the west are not acceptable in most Muslim countries.A female cannot walk in public in Pakistan wearing a mini skirt or shorts even though it's perfectly okay for her to wear these in a European country.

We expect foreigners living in our country to follow our rules but when we go and live in their for 'better healthcare, education and economy' we start protesting against their laws. 

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If a law is unjust we should all oppose it, no matter where or what law.

So this is the key question here. Is it (un)ethical to have this law or not? Is it just or not? Is it logical? 


If you claim to be champion of human rights, advanced, etc. but then have this law, for what reason again? Why should these Muslim girls not be allowed to weir their scarfs? And even worse; the other religious girls who do show part of the hair are allowed! 
Can anyone come up with a good reason why? 
Just because they don't like the looks of it, is not a valid reason. 


The Burqa as part of an all face-hiding ban, could perhaps be accepted, in my opinion, for these countries. But see my questions and comments above in regards to this specific
and such bans. 


Furthermore, the reason why some of us are living in these places has nothing to do with it.

 

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1 minute ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

If a law is unjust we should all oppose it, no matter where or what law.

What's the criteria for justice here?

1 minute ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Is it (un)ethical to have this law or not? Is it just or not? Is it logical?

There are people from among the Muslims say Hijab makes no sense.You expect non Muslims to find a logic? 

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40 minutes ago, starlight said:

We expect foreigners living in our country to follow our rules but when we go and live in their for 'better healthcare, education and economy' we start protesting against their laws. 

Are you implying Muslim = foreigner in the European context? There a lot of born Muslims in these countries too (and reverts). Obviously they have a right to protest laws in their own country that target them, just like any other domestic interest group does?

Or should they flee to another country and learn a new language? Which is more practical?

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42 minutes ago, Reza said:

implying Muslim = foreigner in the European context? 

Foreigners = minority religious groups

43 minutes ago, Reza said:

There a lot of born Muslims in these countries too (and reverts). 

As there are born Christians,Hindus and zoroastrians and atheists in Muslim countries but how accepting would we be if they start protesting against for example same sex marriage laws or laws enforcing hijab? 

I get what you are saying and I don't entirely disagree with it. I am just trying to show the other side of the picture.Islamophobia will continue to rise and it would be naive to think the non Muslim countries will stop making these laws because of us protesting. 

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My position is not politically correct but at the end of the day even if we don't like it this is after all the choice of Austrians. But after that I would not accept hypocrisy of people complaining that some Muslim countries have a dress code asking people to respect Islamic norms. 

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Austrian lawmaker wears headscarf in protest at hijab ban (+Video)

http://en.abna24.com/news//austrian-lawmaker-wears-headscarf-in-protest-at-hijab-ban-video_942335.html

May 18, 2019 - 6:31 PM News Code : 942335 Source : Press TVLink: 
 

An Austrian lawmaker has worn a headscarf during her address against a controversial bill that prohibits primary school girls across the country from wearing hijab — Muslim women’s modest clothing. 

Martha Bissmann, an independent MP, covered her hair during a general assembly speech on Friday to protest the measure, saying, "Let's not allow a wedge to be driven between us." 

The ban was approved after lawmakers from Chancellor Sebastian Kurz's ruling conservative People's Party (ÖVP) and the anti-migration Freedom Party (FPÖ) -- who have formed a majority government together -- voted in its favor. Under the new legislation, it would be illegal for Muslim girls under the age of 10 to wear hijab at all primary schools, including private schools. 

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Austrian lawmaker wears headscarf in protest at hijab ban (+Video)

http://en.abna24.com/news//austrian-lawmaker-wears-headscarf-in-protest-at-hijab-ban-video_942335.html

May 18, 2019 - 6:31 PM News Code : 942335 Source : Press TVLink: 
 

An Austrian lawmaker has worn a headscarf during her address against a controversial bill that prohibits primary school girls across the country from wearing hijab — Muslim women’s modest clothing. 

Martha Bissmann, an independent MP, covered her hair during a general assembly speech on Friday to protest the measure, saying, "Let's not allow a wedge to be driven between us." 

The ban was approved after lawmakers from Chancellor Sebastian Kurz's ruling conservative People's Party (ÖVP) and the anti-migration Freedom Party (FPÖ) -- who have formed a majority government together -- voted in its favor. Under the new legislation, it would be illegal for Muslim girls under the age of 10 to wear hijab at all primary schools, including private schools. 

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2 hours ago, starlight said:

As there are born Christians,Hindus and zoroastrians and atheists in Muslim countries but how accepting would we be if they start protesting against for example same sex marriage laws or laws enforcing hijab? 

They are free to protest any laws they want, but being a minority (assuming without significant power), they are not likely to cause a change. Also, how many Islamic laws really directly affect them personally any more than another legal system? There may be a few public things, but people are usually free to whatever in privacy. Just like secular states, with different lines drawn.

2 hours ago, starlight said:

I get what you are saying and I don't entirely disagree with it. I am just trying to show the other side of the picture.Islamophobia will continue to rise and it would be naive to think the non Muslim countries will stop making these laws because of us protesting

These laws are promoted by certain factions of government and society (usually right wing), who only occupy a portion of influence (even if we concede it’s rising at the moment), but plenty of other factions oppose these laws. Also nothing stops Muslims from forming their own faction of influence as a countervailing force.

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13 hours ago, Guest Jaal said:

What a contrast. It must be so odd for sisters living in the West, seeing women with their hair out, face full of make up, clothes fitting very tightly and effectively free-mixing, dancing, and engaging in casual pre-marital sexual relationships with other women and men. It's just so at odds with the Islamic way of life, yet it is so common now among we are desensitised to it. 

In my city it's not really odd for the sisters, especially if they're born there, it's just the norm now. All through the education system it's all there (about 18 years of their lives) and everyone's exposed to it, there isn't really any escape, even after the education its still there although then you can avoid it (except if it's at your workplace) . So the sisters in my city just go with it, they don't do it themselves, but they will not think twice about someone who does do those things, because that's just they way it is now. 

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9 hours ago, starlight said:

What's the criteria for justice here?

9 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Where or what is meant by "here"?
And before we look into that question, do agree with my statement that you quoted there?

 

Quote

There are people from among the Muslims say Hijab makes no sense.You expect non Muslims to find a logic? 

  •  

Well, we can see logic being used all over the world in many different fields. From simple to complex levels. 

Non-Muslims are not one and the same. Many non-Muslims do respect Islamic practices. Many don't. 
And even if the Hijab would not make sense, then does that mean you can ban the practice of this religion, which "we the sensible ones" find to make no sense. A ban which would have serious consequences since it is not something they can delay until they are home for example.  

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