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In the Name of God بسم الله
Noor Taleb

Confusion about Oneness of God

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26 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

I meant that they say he is selfish because he doesn’t share his powers ?? How do I refute that 

Simple, God/Allah is not human, infallible and is of a singular nature. Ask then why they must insist God have human characteristics?

Hanuman, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Kali, etc. cannot exist if God/Allah is not of a modal nature. So if God is not modal, so why accuse of Him being selfish for sharing His Power when these other "gods" cannot exist because God/Allah is a singular nature.

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We did not create the sky and the Earth and what is between them for amusement.

17. If We wanted amusement, We could have found it within Us, were We to do so.

18. In fact, We hurl the truth against falsehood, and it crushes it, so it vanishes. Woe unto you, for what you describe.

19. To Him belongs everyone in the heavens and the Earth. Those near Him are not too proud to worship Him, nor do they waver.

20. They praise night and day, without ever tiring.

21. Or have they taken to themselves gods from the Earth who resurrect?

22. If there were in them gods other than Allah, they would have gone to ruin. So glory be to Allah, Lord of the Throne, beyond what they allege.

23. He will not be questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.

24. Or have they taken, besides Him, other gods? Say, “Bring your proof. This is a message for those with me, and a message of those before me.” But most of them do not know the truth, so they turn away.

25. We never sent a messenger before you without inspiring him that: “There is no God but I, so worship Me.”

26. And they say, “The Most Merciful has taken to himself a son.” Be He glorified; they are but honored servants.

27. They never speak before He has spoken, and they only act on His command.

28. He knows what is before them, and what is behind them; and they do not intercede except for him whom He approves; and they tremble in awe of Him.

29. And whoever of them says, “I am a God besides Him,” We will reward him with Hell. Thus We reward the wrongdoers.

(21:16-29)

 

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 Say, “He is Allah, the One.

2. Allah, the Absolute.

3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.

4. And there is none comparable to Him.”

(112:1-4)

 ^ Ponder on these verses, sharing implies that God/Allah is not absolute or unique and limited. 

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Simple, God/Allah is not human, infallible and is of a singular nature. Ask then why they must insist God have human characteristics?

Hanuman, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Kali, etc. cannot exist if God/Allah is not of a modal nature. So if God is not modal, so why accuse of Him being selfish for sharing His Power when these other "gods" cannot exist because God/Allah is a singular nature.

 

 ^ Ponder on these verses, sharing implies that God/Allah is not absolute or unique and limited. 

What is modal nature?

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Say, “He is Allah, the One.

2. Allah, the Absolute.

3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.

4. And there is none comparable to Him.”

(112:1-4)

 

I read something about people asking why Allah doesn't share his power. For arguments sake, would you share your power with something or someone that isn't comparable to you? No way, they would ruin everything, and since Allah is perfect He would not, for arguments sake, share His power with an imperfect thing which would then ruin everything. The best craftsperson only passes on his/her skills because they need to leave a legacy and ensure people continue to create good crafts. Since Allah has no legacy to leave, no offspring or successor, He does not need to share the tricks of His trade so to speak.

Edited by aaaz1618

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58 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

What is modal nature?

As in a Trinity or separate personas or "masks" like Christianity or Vaishnavism. (e.g. Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Vishnu, Krishna and Shiva.) I take it that you're not theologically inclined?

1 hour ago, aaaz1618 said:

For arguments sake, would you share your power with something or someone that isn't comparable to you? No way, they would ruin everything, and since Allah is perfect He would not, for arguments sake, share His power with an imperfect thing which would then ruin everything.

Bad argument, it is correct that there is nothing comparable to Allah but the main reason there are no partners is because He is omnipresent, ommidirectiontial  and self-sufficient. He has no need, is perpetually creating and as Imam Ali said:

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Eyes cannot see Him face to face, but hearts perceive Him through the realities of belief. He is near to things but not (physically) contiguous. He is far from them but not (physically) separate. He is a speaker, but not with reflection. He intends, but not with preparation. He moulds, but not with (the assistance of) limbs. He is subtle but cannot be attributed with being concealed. He is great but cannot be attributed with haughtiness. He sees but cannot be attributed with the sense (of sight). He is Merciful but cannot be attributed with weakness of heart. Faces feel low before His greatness and hearts tremble out of fear of Him.

لاَ تُدْرِكُهُ الْعُيُونُ بِمُشَاهَدَةِ الْعِيَانِ، وَلكِنْ تُدْرِكُهُ الْقُلُوبُ بِحَقَائِقِ الاْيمَانِ، قَرِيبٌ مِنَ الاْشْيَاءِ غَيْرُ مُلاَمِس، بَعِيدٌ مِنْهَا غَيْرُ مُبَايِن، مُتَكَلِّمٌ بِلاَ رَوِيَّة، مُرِيدٌ بِلاَ هِمَّة، صَانِعٌ لاَ بِجَارِحَة، لَطِيفٌ لاَ يُوصَفُ بِالْخَفَاءِ، كَبِيرٌ لاَ يُوصَفُ بِالْجَفَاءِ، بَصِيرٌ لاَ يُوصَفُ بِالْحَاسَّةِ، رَحِيمٌ لاَ يُوصَفُ بِالرِّقَّةِ، تَعْنُو الْوُجُوهُ لِعَظَمَتِهِ، وَتَجِبُ الْقُلُوبُ مِنْ مَخَافَتِهِ.

 

^ Boldened part for @Noor Taleb

There is nothing remotely similar to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  So therefore, there is nothing to partner with because nothing shares His qualities. This is monotheism (belief in One God) in the purest sense   

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2 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

Say, “He is Allah, the One.

2. Allah, the Absolute.

3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.

4. And there is none comparable to Him.”

(112:1-4)

 

I read something about people asking why Allah doesn't share his power. For arguments sake, would you share your power with something or someone that isn't comparable to you? No way, they would ruin everything, and since Allah is perfect He would not, for arguments sake, share His power with an imperfect thing which would then ruin everything. The best craftsperson only passes on his/her skills because they need to leave a legacy and ensure people continue to create good crafts. Since Allah has no legacy to leave, no offspring or successor, He does not need to share the tricks of His trade so to speak.

Thank you for your valuable feed back :) 

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19 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

As in a Trinity or separate personas or "masks" like Christianity or Vaishnavism. (e.g. Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Vishnu, Krishna and Shiva.) I take it that you're not theologically inclined?

Bad argument, it is correct that there is nothing comparable to Allah but the main reason there are no partners is because He is omnipresent, ommidirectiontial  and self-sufficient. He has no need, is perpetually creating and as Imam Ali said:

^ Boldened part for @Noor Taleb

There is nothing remotely similar to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  So therefore, there is nothing to partner with because nothing shares His qualities. This is monotheism (belief in One God) in the purest sense   

Than you so much 

I apologize I am not so learned , I am just a layman but I keep logic simple so huge words kinda take time to fit in my brain :cry:

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23 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

Than you so much 

I apologize I am not so learned , I am just a layman but I keep logic simple so huge words kinda take time to fit in my brain :cry:

Read the first section of Sermon #1 from Nahjul Balagha over a few times, Imam Ali ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) explains it in a way which nobody else could express in such a way.

Spend time contemplating what the Qur'an says, what Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) says and what Imams Ali ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) says. 

While I could write extensively long articles and essays on the subject, I cannot compare to what is expressed by these three sources of knowledge (Irfan) and wisdom (Hikmah). 

Edited by HakimPtsid

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22 minutes ago, HakimPtsid said:

Read the first section of Sermon #1 from Nahjul Balagha over a few times, Imam Ali ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) explains it in a way which nobody else could express in such a way.

Spend time contemplating what the Qur'an says, what Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) says and what Imams Ali ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) says. 

While I could write extensively long articles and essays on the subject, I cannot compare to what is expressed by these three sources of knowledge (Irfan) and wisdom (Hikmah). 

WELCOME BACK!

LONG TIME BROTHER!

Since you have come..........

I would like to bother you  a bit ( plz don’t be mad) I kinda feel your'e getting sick of me 

There is a very good argument against athiesm that says the universe has a design there must be a designer sadly a fellow Muslim said that its wrong since a designer always make the perfect design, which the universe isn't example blind spot in the eye or people born diseased. I have no idea what to say to this.

I am truly sorry for how much I have bothered you! :( 

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Bad argument, it is correct that there is nothing comparable to Allah but the main reason there are no partners is because He is omnipresent, ommidirectiontial  and self-sufficient. He has no need, is perpetually creating

Of course, but it's not an argument I'm putting to someone who already knows. We all know Allah is omnipresent, omnidirectional and self-sufficient, but Noor Taleb is talking about people who deny God's oneness and so on, so my response looks at an angle they may sort of get, as opposed to telling them Allah is omnipresent and so on, which they either won't understand or do not believe anyway. Sometimes in order to make a person understand you have to speak on their level, even if you know the matter is far, far more complex or sophisticated.

Although I feel sometimes these people on Quora and the like just do what they do for the sake of reading their own words or hearing their own voices. I don't think they genuinely want their own beliefs challenged.

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1 hour ago, Noor Taleb said:

WELCOME BACK!

LONG TIME BROTHER!

Since you have come..........

I would like to bother you  a bit ( plz don’t be mad) I kinda feel your'e getting sick of me 

There is a very good argument against athiesm that says the universe has a design there must be a designer sadly a fellow Muslim said that its wrong since a designer always make the perfect design, which the universe isn't example blind spot in the eye or people born diseased. I have no idea what to say to this.

I am truly sorry for how much I have bothered you! :( 

You haven't bothered me, I enjoy it :grin:

Think about the implications of Atheism on a philosophical, cosmological and ontological level. Leave aside the typical moral and ethical stuff that Theists usually talk about (even though it is obviously incredibly important).

If I had enough time on my hands I could outline some of it's extremities, as every grand proposition has to be understood at it's extreme to understand it's merits (or lack thereof). Atheists just don't realize how deeply self-contradictory their position comes.

Historically, before the Revelation of Islam this whole debate (God vs no God) is debated quite well-knowingly in Greek Philosophy - between Plato (Idealism) and Aristotle (Materialism, inevitably). And Hinduism came to the crossroads of the consequences of both Dualism (Dvaita) and Nondualism/Monism (Advaita).

All of those positions by themselves (Materialism, Idealism, Dualism and Monism) all cancel each other out - however the Qur'an did not fall into this trap and as the lasting genuine Revelation actually provided the only rational and logical solution to it!.

Understanding the way these philosophical positions not only contradict but interact with each other is the best way to get grounding in not only the severely circular logic of Atheism but also the way in which the Tawhid of Islam exceeds all other ontological/philosophical positions about the universe (including the versions of Monotheism that the other two Abrahamic religions end up limited by). 

You can keep asking me questions all you want or even PM me if you like. Cheers brother :)

 

Edited by HakimPtsid

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8 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

You haven't bothered me, I enjoy it :grin:

You can keep asking me questions all you want or even PM me if you like. Cheers brother :)

See, that's the manners of a true Muslim right there, masha'Allah.

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10 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

You haven't bothered me, I enjoy it :grin:

Think about the implications of Atheism on a philosophical, cosmological and ontological level. Leave aside the typical moral and ethical stuff that Theists usually talk about (even though it is obviously incredibly important).

If I had enough time on my hands I could outline some of it's extremities, as every grand proposition has to be understood at it's extreme to understand it's merits (or lack thereof). Atheists just don't realize how deeply self-contradictory their position comes.

Historically, before the Revelation of Islam this whole debate (God vs no God) is debated quite well-knowingly in Greek Philosophy - between Plato (Idealism) and Aristotle (Materialism, inevitably). And Hinduism came to the crossroads of the consequences of both Dualism (Dvaita) and Nondualism/Monism (Advaita).

All of those positions by themselves (Materialism, Idealism, Dualism and Monism) all cancel each other out - however the Qur'an did not fall into this trap and as the lasting genuine Revelation actually provided the only rational and logical solution to it!.

Understanding the way these philosophical positions not only contradict but interact with each other is the best way to get grounding in not only the severely circular logic of Atheism but also the way in which the Tawhid of Islam exceeds all other ontological/philosophical positions about the universe (including the versions of Monotheism that the other two Abrahamic religions end up limited by). 

You can keep asking me questions all you want or even PM me if you like. Cheers brother :)

 

I apologize I still didn’t understand how to answer them back if they ask me the question I had posted 

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13 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

Atheists just don't realise how deeply self-contradictory their position comes.

 

According to this link there are some 1.2 billion non-religious/ atheist people in the world. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

Whilst I don't want to digress from the original question, I would love to know why you believe that the position is 'deeply contradictory'.  ?

Always interested in finding out something new.

ws.

*

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Guest Dajjal

Stages of God's life:

God is Al-Lah < Pre-Emanation

God is Ahad = Universe

God is Infinite or Lahaniyah or Ayn Sof. = Multiverse or Infiniteverse.

Cycle repeats endlessly.

From this universe will come forth innumerable 'universes' collectively called Infiniteverse.

 

 

 

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On 5/19/2019 at 1:05 PM, Noor Taleb said:

Hey Some one told me that indivisible oneness is Quality not Quantity ie there is no one like Allah so why does Qur'an use argument like if there had been two gods then one would kill the other due to arguments. This is possible for only people who are in numbers of 1 and 2 

EXPLAIN 

Salam.

 

the verse does not say that:

If there were therein gods beside Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the Earth) had been disordered. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, from all that they ascribe (unto Him). 21:22

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