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In the Name of God بسم الله
Maisam Haider

Standing in taraweeh with personal intention

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Better still, stand in prayer in the comfort of your own home where people aren't going to take swipes at you and glare at you for not being 'one of their own'. Why be involved in taraweeh and make yourself a target to people's ignorant attitude? 

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1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

Salam

Is it permissible for a Shia to stand in a Sunni congregation reading taraweeh, while the Shia makes his own intention and reads some other mustshib prayer (not taraweeh) ? 

It’s completely innovation even listening to their Qur'an recitation is forbidden for Shia Muslims because it’s a type of verifying innovation in Principle of religion & listening or any type of participating in it is a great sin .

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It’s completely innovation even listening to their Qur'an recitation is forbidden for Shia Muslims because it’s a type of verifying innovation in Principle of religion & listening or any type of participating in it is a great sin .

I do not know what the fiqh rule is for taraweeh; it might possibly be prohibited. However praying with Sunnis in congregation even in their mosques is recommended according to Syed Sistani for the sake of unity. Taraweeh may be an exception. But to say that listening to their Qur'an recitation is also prohibited is clearly wrong. 

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3 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

Smooth! That'll silence a few Imams.

Lol its coz after ameen it's pin drop silence and suddenly the Sunni Imam starts reciting another surah. I make use of that moment when everyone is busy reciting 'ameen'. Alternatively you can say "alhumdulillahi rabil aalmiin" after, it as it's mustahab I think (confirm this).

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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1 minute ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Lol its coz after ameen it's pin drop silence and suddenly the Sunni Imam starts reciting another surah. I make use of that moment when everyone is busy reciting 'ameen'. Alternatively you can say "alhumdulillahi rabil aalmiin" after, it as it's mustahab I think (confirm this).

Yes, I believe the silence was so that people could recite Al Fatiha. Though many maddhabs hold that one should remain silent during the recitation, some say that it isn't valid unless you recite silently.

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7 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Went to salatul isha at my local the other day, was of course full to the brim. Brought my small khumra mat. Prayed with congregation, then after dhikr did my nafilah whilst seated, then dipped.

Fair play for going. I pray in congregation once maybe every half a year and when I do I join the back rows and leave as soon as it concludes. I haven't been to jummah since last Eid. Haven't been to taraweeh in 4-5 years. Not my idea of fun.

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I was invited by a Sunni colleague for iftar at his home. I was the only Shia there and there were couple of Sunnis. They had a short snack for iftar and then had maghrib prayer; then they decided to have proper dinner only after returning from taraweeh. I declined to go to for taraweeh but they insisted and in a way forced me to go with them. Unwilling I stood with them in jamaat but did my own niyyut (intention) for forada prayer. After a few rakaats, I slipped away and went out of the mosque.

I highly regret going for taraweeh because it is a biddah. I later asked several scholars and all said that it strongly prohibited to attend taraweeh. I feel regretful for this and wish I had somehow managed to escape before they could force me.

May the ever lasting curse of Allah be on the one who started this biddah. 

Edited by Maisam Haider

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6 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Taraweeh may be an exception. But to say that listening to their Qur'an recitation is also prohibited is clearly wrong

Salam they use recitation of Qur'an for confirming a bid'ah that Qur'an clearly says reciting Qur'an in this way only increases their falshood in their Bid'ah

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاءٌ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۙ وَلَا يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا خَسَارًا ﴿٨٢

 We send down in the Qur'an that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful; and it increases the wrongdoers only in loss. (82)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/17:82

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23 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

Are you saying that it is forbidden for Shias to listen to Qur'an being recited by a Sunni ?

no , I just said don't listen to it in Tarawih prayer ,I also listen to Sunni reciters but I personally don't listen to Wahhabist & Salafi reciters 

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6 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

I was invited by a Sunni colleague for iftar at his home. I was the only Shia there and there were couple of Sunnis. They had a short snack for iftar and then had maghrib prayer; then they decided to have proper dinner only after returning from taraweeh. I declined to go to for taraweeh but they insisted and in a way forced me to go with them. Unwilling I stood with them in jamaat but did my own niyyut (intention) for forada prayer. After a few rakaats, I slipped away and went out of the mosque.

I highly regret going for taraweeh because it is a biddah. I later asked several scholars and all said that it strongly prohibited to attend taraweeh. I feel regretful for this and wish I had somehow managed to escape before they could force me.

May the ever lasting curse of Allah be on the one who started this biddah. 

Alhamdulilah, 

There is no wrong on you. Even though their intentions were to practice what is Bidah, your intentions were not. There is nothing wrong with going to the masjid to pray especially during Ramadhan. Your intentions is what Allah knows better than any man. Imam Ali (عليه السلام). was martyred in the Masjid during Ramadhan...was him going to the masjid Bidah?

As far as I see you kept good relation to brothers of the faith. Their ignorance to something that is Bidah May be excused based on the ones who illegally usurped Ali (عليه السلام)  leadership rights over the Muslims. All this will be settled by Allah on Yauma Qiyamah. Now if you go back and continue this practice every night with the intention of doing tarawih then you are participating in something that is Bidah. 

But don’t beat yourself down. Allah is most merciful to his servants and understands all affairs. So Alhamdulilah Enjoy the rest of your Ramadhan as this is the month of Mercy and continue to do good works Masha’Allah 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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1 hour ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Your intentions is what Allah knows better than any man. Imam Ali (عليه السلام). was martyred in the Masjid during Ramadhan...was him going to the masjid Bidah?

 As far as I see you kept good relation to brothers of the faith. Their ignorance to something that is Bidah May be excused based on the ones who illegally usurped Ali (عليه السلام)  leadership rights over the Muslims.

Salam going to Majid is not bid’ah but attending in bid’ah (Tarawih ) prayer is a sin also Imam Ali(عليه السلام) tried to remove this bid’ah but except few ones rest of people disobeyed him & Imam Ali(عليه السلام) & his loyal followers didn’t attend or support their innovation if you want go to a Sunni mosque go in time that this bid’ah ended & pray normal prayer there.

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59 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam going to Majid is not bid’ah but attending in bid’ah (Tarawih ) prayer is a sin also Imam Ali(عليه السلام) tried to remove this bid’ah but except few ones rest of people disobeyed him & Imam Ali(عليه السلام) & his loyal followers didn’t attend or support their innovation if you want go to a Sunni mosque go in time that this bid’ah ended & pray normal prayer there.

Alhamdulilah, 

salaam walaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu 

I agree with you but his circumstance was  different. He was invited to dinner as a guest which is very important in the brother hood of Islam. He himself didn’t understand the full scope of how they would use iftar dinner as a reward for Tarawih which is what they did. Being that he was a guest he made his intention not to be of tarawih. And soon left for outside during that prayer so Based on the situation and still not having dinner yet  he handled it quite well. Allah knows his intention.

  Now if the brother goes back knowing the circumstances surrounding iftar dinner then yes he will be doing Bidah so he should not go next time at now that he has knowledge of the situation. But he shouldn’t beat himself up of what already has happened as now he is better Muslim with more knowledge now. Allah is most merciful. Humans are not more merciful than Allah or equal to Allah in mercy not even our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW and Ahlul Bayt. 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) tried to discontinue the consistent attendance to the masjid for this specific prayer He however would not intend to stop anyone from going to the masjid to pray to Allah. In that case the commander of the faithful would have had to stop himself from going the masjid during Ramadhan. 

Another thing is technically there should be no Sunni masjid or Shia masjid. All places of worship are for Allah’s worship as said in the Qur'an. Even Hindu, Buddhist, synagogues, churches are meant for worship of Allah and Allah alone. 

There are going to be times when the believers are set in circumstances in which maybe perhaps the best decision wasn’t exactly ideally administered. The key to these situations is learning from the situation and gaining wisdom. If Allah wished for him not to be at that masjid during at that time then by Allah it wouldn’t have happened. Based on his knowledge of everything I think he handled it brilliantly and now is more knowledgeable because of it. Allah knows our intention. 

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34 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

salaam walaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu 

I agree with you but his circumstance was  different. He was invited to dinner as a guest which is very important in the brother hood of Islam. He himself didn’t understand the full scope of how they would use iftar dinner as a reward for Tarawih which is what they did. Being that he was a guest he made his intention not to be of tarawih. And soon left for outside during that prayer so Based on the situation and still not having dinner yet  he handled it quite well. Allah knows his intention.

  Now if the brother goes back knowing the circumstances surrounding iftar dinner then yes he will be doing Bidah so he should not go next time now that he has knowledge of the situation. But he shouldn’t beat himself up of what already has happened as now he is better Muslim with more knowledge now. Allah is most merciful. Humans are not more merciful than Allah or equal to Allah in mercy not even our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW and Ahlul Bayt. 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) tried to discontinue the consistent attendance to the masjid for this specific prayer He however would not intend to stop anyone from going to the masjid to pray to Allah. In that case the commander of the faithful would have had to stop himself from going the masjid during Ramadhan. 

Another thing is technically there should be no Sunni masjid or Shia masjid. All places of worship are for Allah’s worship as said in the Qur'an. Even Hindu, Buddhist, synagogues, churches are meant for worship of Allah and Allah alone. 

There are going to be times when the believers are set in circumstances in which maybe perhaps the best decision wasn’t exactly ideally administered. The key to these situations is learning from the situation and gaining wisdom. If Allah wished for him not to be at that masjid during at that time then by Allah it wouldn’t have happened. Based on his knowledge of everything I think he handled it well and now is more knowledgeable because of it. Allah knows our intention. 

 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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11 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

I was invited by a Sunni colleague for iftar at his home. I was the only Shia there and there were couple of Sunnis. They had a short snack for iftar and then had maghrib prayer; then they decided to have proper dinner only after returning from taraweeh. I declined to go to for taraweeh but they insisted and in a way forced me to go with them. Unwilling I stood with them in jamaat but did my own niyyut (intention) for forada prayer. After a few rakaats, I slipped away and went out of the mosque.

I highly regret going for taraweeh because it is a biddah. I later asked several scholars and all said that it strongly prohibited to attend taraweeh. I feel regretful for this and wish I had somehow managed to escape before they could force me.

May the ever lasting curse of Allah be on the one who started this biddah. 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows your intentions and the regret. Ask him for forgiveness. He is Ghafoor. Insha Allah He will forgive you. 

Ilahi Ameen

Edited by Sirius_Bright

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4 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

I agree with you but his circumstance was  different. He was invited to dinner as a guest which is very important in the brother hood of Islam. He himself didn’t understand the full scope of how they would use iftar dinner as a reward for Tarawih which is what they did. Being that he was a guest he made his intention not to be of tarawih. And soon left for outside during that prayer so Based on the situation and still not having dinner yet  he handled it quite well. Allah knows his intention.

Unity doesn’t mean that we cross our red lines & Tarawih as is a bid’ah & our red line & attending to it in namee of unity is not acceptable  , when people disobey Imam of their time going or not going to Masjid for praying Allah doesn’t make any difference for them & their presence with disobeying Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was increasing their punishment in hereafter ,you know the truth but you are trying to justify a bid’ah in name of unity or allowing going to Masjid by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) 

Then, ‘Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (reciter) [I.e. let them pray in congregation!]'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubayy bin Ka’b. Then, on another night, I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, ‘Umar remarked, 'What an excellent bid'a (innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but rather sleep at its time, is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night."
[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 3, book 32, number 227]

• “It was called bid’ah because the Prophet (s) did not use to pray it in congregation, and neither was it prayed like that in the time of al-Siddiq (referring to the first Caliph), nor in the early part of night or with these number of units.” 

[al-Qastallani, Irshad al-Sari Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 5, page 4]
[al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, volume 6, page 287]

• “‘Umar was the first who set the example of the night prayer of Ramadan, the Tarawih, and gathered people for it, and instructed different regions regarding it. This was during the month of Ramadhan of the year 14 (hijri). He appointed for the people reciters of the Qur’an who led the Tarawih prayer for men and women.”

[Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat, volume 3, page 281]
[al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa', page 137]
[al-‘Ayni, ‘Umdat al-Qari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 6, page 125]

Verily, the offering of nafila (recommended prayers) in congregation during the nights of Ramadan is an innovation… O people! do not say nafila prayers of Ramadan in congregation…. Without doubt, performing a minor act of worship which is according to the sunna is better than performing a major act of worship which is an innovation.”

[al-Hurr al-`Amili, Wasa’il al-Shi`ah, volume 8, page 45]

This view of the Imams from the Prophet’s progeny is confirmed by a scholar well-known amongst the Ahl al-Sunnah who writes:

• “The progeny of the Prophet (s) say that congregation in Tarawih is an innovation”.

[al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar, volume 3, page 50]

https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/laws-practices-why-do-shiah-avoid-tarawih-congregations

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

Alhamdulilah, 

You are trying to explain to me about Bidah and tarawih? Like you l, I know and Understand about both. By Allahs will Ten times out of ten you and I will most likely not attend tarawih prayers because we know better. But What you are overlooking is that not everyone has the same understanding about the two. The young brother found himself in an awkward situation that he himself didn’t feel comfortable about from the get go. In the future he will have enough confidence to shun such invitation because of this learning experience, but for now it is what was it is....a learning experience. Allah knows his situation better than any man in this thread and Allah is the best of judges more than any man in this thread including myself. 

Alhamdulilah, I once attended this Bidah as a youth which never made sense to me anyway but Alhamdulilah through guidance I’m here in the folds of the Ahlul Bayt. Not everyone is going to come from your background and road thats why it’s our job to educate the youth, but at the same time he understands now and a mistake was made but his heart was not of the intention of willfully disobeying. He made an error but Allah is most merciful.  No need to take hope of mercy away. Like the brother explained he can ask for forgiveness in the matter and move on. But he shouldn’t beat himself for it. 

May Allah have mercy on the believing men and believing women. 

 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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Salam 

Thank you AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola. For your kind words and acknowledging the situation I was in. 

Every Shia understands Taraweeh is an innovation and no Shia would attend it under normal circumstances. My situation was however quite unusual in that I was a guest at someone's house and was asked by a group of Sunni men to join them for taraweeh, before the dinner. Because they had suddenly made this plan and were leaving immediately, they gave me little time to think or to come up with my own excuse to avoid it. Nevertheless, they asked me repeatedly and I kept on refusing again and again. I even said to the host that I will go back home (this meant refusing to have dinner with them). At this the host looked very sad when he realised that I wanted to leave without having food with them. He said to me " please don't do this. " At that point, in just those few seconds I had to make a decision...

1. I thought whether I knew of any fatwa which categorically makes joining taraweeh haram (even with fourada niyyah). I didn't remember any fatwa like that in the few seconds that I had. 

2. I had to decide very quickly whether it would be Islamically appropriate to decline having food with your host after attending his house. 

3. I recalled that Syed Sistani recommends Joinning Sunnis in jammat for unity. 

With these three thoughts in my mind, and with the Sunni men getting in their cars, and the host waiting for me to get in his car aswell, I made the decision to go with them. 

At the taraweeh, I made my personal intention and read my own prayer. As soon as I got the opportunity, I left the mosque and went outside. Later when the host finished as well, we went back to his place for dinner. 

While I pretended to join them in taraweeh, I sent curses to the one who began this biddah in the first place. I regretted standing with them and I had an inner feeling that I had most certainly done a wrong action - that this is like supporting biddah. I felt extremely unhappy with my decision to attend the taraweeh and wished I had categorically down right refused the host by saying that Shias do not read taraweeh. But did I have time to explain this at that moment when he was stood waiting for me to get into car...? I don't know. 

 

Later, I asked a few scholars who all said that taraweeh cannot be attended under any circumstances at all - unless one has to practice taqqiyah. This made me even more regretful and I feel disgusted of my action. However the scholars did not quote any exact fatwa making taraweeh categorically haram to attend for Shias.

I then sent the same question to Najaf.org and Sistani.org. They normally reply quickly when the question is simple - but it's been several days and I haven't received any reply from either office. Could it mean that although it is easy to understand that taraweeh should be avoided so as not to support this biddah, the actual fatwa making it haram may not be that simple?. I will continue to await their reply and seek forgiveness from Allah. 

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3 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Later, I asked a few scholars who all said that taraweeh cannot be attended under any circumstances at all - unless one has to practice taqqiyah. This made me even more regretful and I feel disgusted of my action. However the scholars did not quote any exact fatwa making taraweeh categorically haram to attend for Shias.

I then sent the same question to Najaf.org and Sistani.org. They normally reply quickly when the question is simple - but it's been several days and I haven't received any reply from either office. Could it mean that although it is easy to understand that taraweeh should be avoided so as not to support this biddah, the actual fatwa making it haram may not be that simple?. I will continue to await their reply and seek forgiveness from Allah. 

 

Alhamdulilah, 

Brother, at this point what you are doing is almost worst than the unintentional attending the bidah prayer. After asking Allah for forgiveness move on. You are almost indirectly seeking forgiveness through the answer from scholars and Sistani. 

It is Allah who hears prayers and it is Allah who answers prayers and Allah is most merciful. Remember the two verses in Surah Hamd. He alone do we worship and he alone do we ask for help. Whatever answer the scholars send back is not better than asking Allah for forgiveness and having faith in your lord as the most merciful to forgive you. 

This system some times reminds me of Catholicism where there is an intermediary in between you and God and that’s not Islam. You can seek understanding from scholars but you don’t have to wait for their ruling to feel forgiven. Allah says if all your sins were filled to the sky he would forgive them instantly if you sincerely asked for forgiveness. 

Insha’Allah move on brother. Have a blessed Ramadhan and continue to do good works while striving to get closer to Allah SubhanAllahu wa Ta’ala. 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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Salam 

I think you misunderstood me. I am not  seeking any forgiveness from the answer of any marjaa. Nor I am waiting for their reply to feel forgiven. 

However it is important to know what the rule is regarding this matter because we cannot automatically assume that since taraweeh is biddah, so it would be "haram" to even join that congregation with forada intention. It is likely that it will be forbidden, but one has to know the actual rule. 

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1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

Salam 

I think you misunderstood me. I am not  seeking any forgiveness from the answer of any marjaa. Nor I am waiting for their reply to feel forgiven. 

However it is important to know what the rule is regarding this matter because we cannot automatically assume that since taraweeh is biddah, so it would be "haram" to even join that congregation with forada intention. It is likely that it will be forbidden, but one has to know the actual rule. 

Alhamdulilah, 

Ah Ok my fault, Alhamdulilah, perhaps I did misunderstand you. Well anyhow whatever the answer is Insha’Allah you will come out more knowledgeable Muslim because of the experience and seeking all out knowledge of the situation. Insha’Allah have a blessed Ramadhan. 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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17 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

I recalled that Syed Sistani recommends Joinning Sunnis in jammat for unity. 

I don't recall any fatwa from Sayed Sistani recommending to join Sunnis in congregation for unity. 

17 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

I felt extremely unhappy with my decision to attend the taraweeh and wished I had categorically down right refused the host by saying that Shias do not read taraweeh. 

You know the situation better but in no circumstances a sin is allowed except taqaiyah. You should have refused there. I would compare this to a very good Christian friend asking to take a sip of alcohol. Both are sin, both should be rejected, no matter your relations. Never a good idea to make creation happy against creator. 

On 5/14/2019 at 8:04 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows your intentions and the regret. Ask him for forgiveness. He is Ghafoor. Insha Allah He will forgive you.

 May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us to do good and forbid evil. 

Ilahi Ameen

 

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Standing in taraweeh with furada niyyat is a sin? Please provide proof. It is forbidden to stand in congregation and listen to the Qur'an but it is recommended to do sujood of Fatima (عليه السلام)? These kinds of things really make me question if people are sincere.

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Guest Nkight
1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Standing in taraweeh with furada niyyat is a sin? Please provide proof. It is forbidden to stand in congregation and listen to the Qur'an but it is recommended to do sujood of Fatima (عليه السلام)? These kinds of things really make me question if people are sincere.

What happens when unstoppable rijal, meets immovable ghuluw?

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1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

 

You know the situation better but in no circumstances a sin is allowed except taqaiyah. You should have refused there. I would compare this to a very good Christian friend asking to take a sip of alcohol. Both are sin, both should be rejected, no matter your relations. Never a good idea to make creation happy against creator. 

 

Alhamdulilah, 

Why are we rehashing and beating a dead horse here? The brother has already been told by many qualified brothers on this thread about his mistake and how he should be more confident next time shun such invitation. So why do you want to rehash and beat up on him some more? Everything you said has been established in this thread already aside from the Sistani’s ruling. 

Brother Haider this is why you keep your slip ups between you and Allah. Humans are not more merciful than Allah. Wait for Answers from your more knowledgeable scholars don’t pay too much attention to this thread. Insha’Allah stay away from bidah and move on with Your Ramadhan. Allah is more merciful than Humans. This is also Ramadhan the most merciful month. Take advantage of it. 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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42 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

Why are we rehashing and beating a dead horse here? The brother has already been told by many qualified brothers on this thread about his mistake and how he should be more confident next time shun such invitation. So why do you want to rehash and beat up on him some more? Everything you said has been established in this thread already aside from the Sistani’s ruling. 

Brother Haider this is why you keep your slip ups between you and Allah. Humans are not more merciful than Allah. Wait for Answers from your more knowledgeable scholars don’t pay too much attention to this thread. Insha’Allah stay away from bidah and move on with Your Ramadhan. Allah is more merciful than Humans. This is also Ramadhan the most merciful month. Take advantage of it. 

I don't see what different thing I told him than 'it is bidah' and 'Allah is most forgiving'. I'm actually giving him hope that even if you regret doing that particular sin, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will forgive Insha Allah. 

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

Standing in taraweeh with furada niyyat is a sin? Please provide proof. It is forbidden to stand in congregation and listen to the Qur'an but it is recommended to do sujood of Fatima (عليه السلام)? These kinds of things really make me question if people are sincere.

Taraweeh is bidah and promoting bid'ah is a sin. Shaitan did lot of worship than you and I could ever do but not obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for one Sajdah to Adam got him removed from Allah's mercy. Worship is not reciting Qur'an in supersonic speed but it is obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in good and evil. 

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