Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Maisam Haider

Standing in taraweeh with personal intention

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, Ar.alhindi said:

. On the other hand, big Shia Ulemma e.g. Ayatollah Sistani, actually allow walking on fire and all these other things as valid forms of grieving, and grieving is is prescribed for Shia like an Ibadah

I have never read or heard anywhere that Ayatullahs Sistani recommends walking on fire. Do you have a source? Please do not spread such information without source.

While mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is a highly recommended act that carries immeasurable sawab, it is not a substitute or equivalent for Ibadaats like Namaz, fasting, Hajj and so on. Everything has their own position.

1 hour ago, 786:) said:

The fact is they are bidah no matter how much emotions you have attached to them.

If our crying for Hussain(عليه السلام) is bidah then so is Prophet Yaqub (as)'s crying for Nabi Yousaf (عليه السلام). We are following bidah of a Prophet(عليه السلام) as compared to Sunnis to follow the bidah of Umar and Abu Bakr. We are still better off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, starlight said:

If our crying for Hussain(عليه السلام) is bidah then so is Prophet Yaqub (as)'s crying for Nabi Yousaf (عليه السلام). We are following bidah of a Prophet(عليه السلام) as compared to Sunnis to follow the bidah of Umar and Abu Bakr. We are still better off.

I am talking about tatbir, fire walk, zuljinah, etc. I clearly said Ashura rituals. Crying is not a ritual. There are those who think taraweeh is an evil bidah, but think tatbir is some heavenly task. This is rubbish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I am talking about tatbir, fire walk, zuljinah, etc. I clearly said Ashura rituals. Crying is not a ritual. There are those who think taraweeh is an evil bidah, but think tatbir is some heavenly task. This is rubbish.

Yes, so we need even instructions to how to mourn so we will not innovate anything because somehow Ashura rituals have to do with religion? I don't accept the extreme Ashura rituals but I don't see anything how they are related to our Religion. And how can we even compare something serious that is prayer to Ashura rituals?

Ashura rituals bid'ah, come on.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2019 at 12:02 AM, 786:) said:

And Ashura rituals are bidah by a drunkard Safavid ruler. The fact that you refuse to accept the parallels between the two bidahs is astonishing. You sugarcoat the ashura rituals as means of mourning so they are supposedly exempt from the bidah test. The fact is they are bidah no matter how much emotions you have attached to them. The Sunnis will try to give you similar reasons for their bidah.

First of all, respect yourself. We know that these manners of yours were bequeathed (and inherited) from the people you follow, but here, you have to be respectful. I imagine, you’d be enraged (and convulsed), if I said that the Ottomans, or the Abbasid "rulers" were drunkards.

Now, let me demolish everything you said. Here, hold my monocle and whiskers.

In Sīrāt Iʿbn Ishaq, page 713, Sīrāt Iʿbn Hisham, volume 4, page 655, al-Bīdāyaḥ wal-Nīḥāyaḥ, volume 5, page 420:

Aisha said: "The Messenger of Allah died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of Allah died while he was on my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women."

masnad-abu-yala.jpg

 

tareekh-tabri.jpg

More references:

  1. Musnād Ahmad Iʿbn Hanbāl, volume 43, page 369, tradition 26348.
  2. Musnād Aʿbi Yaʿlā al-Mawṣilī, volume 8, page 63, tradition 4586.
  3. Fatḥ al-Bārī, volume 6, page 225, tradition 2420.
  4. Irwa al-Ghalil, volume 7, page 86, (declared ‘Hassan’ by Al-Albaani).

In Imtʿā al-Asmā, volume 2, page 137:

The mothers of believers began to hit their chests and put veil upon their heads, while the women of Ansār were hitting their faces and their voice got hoarse due to screaming.

In Tafsir Iʿbn Kathir, volume 7, page 421, Surah Adh-Dhariyat, verse 29, that Sarah, the wife of Abraham, and the mother of Jacob and Issac slapped/hit her face!

image.jpg

In the book of al-Sīrāh al-Hālābīyā, volume 2, page 295:

When the news reached Uwāīs al-Qārānī in Yemen, that two teeth of the Holy Prophet were broken in the Uhud, he extracted all his teeth. When the Holy Prophet got the news in Medina, that Uwāīs had struck down all his teeth, he exclaimed, “Indeed, Uwāīs is our devoted friend.

If you ask any normal human being, he’ll tell you that what Uwāīs did, is much more severe than tātbīr or lātm.

The renowned Sunni Scholar, Shiekh Fārīd al-Dīn Attār, in Tāzkīrā tul-Awlīyā, pages 15-16 writes:

Hādhrāt Uwāīs said: “If you are from among companions of the Prophet, tell me which tooth of the Holy Prophet was martyred? Also, why did you not break your teeth in adhering to the Prophet?” Upon saying this, he evidenced the fact that his teeth had been broken, and said: “When his tooth was martyred, I broke my tooth, then I thought perhaps it is another tooth, and my continuing to do so, I smashed all of my teeth, and upon doing so I felt comfortable.” Upon witnessing this, the companions proceeded to weep, and they realized that this constituted respect, whilst he had not seen him, he fulfilled the adhered to the obligation to follow the Prophet in its entirety, and taught this lesson when he left this world.

In Tārīkh Baghdad, volume 4, page 422, and Ḥayāt al-Ḥayawān, page 101:

‘He (A'bu Bākr al-Mākkī) said: I heard al-Wārkānī saying: “The day on which Ahmad Iʿbn Hānbāl died, in it ‘Mātām’ and lamentation took place among four types of people: the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians.”

In the book of al-Rīyādḥ al-Nādḥīrā, page 187:

“When Omar died, the jinn recited an elegy: Omar, female jinn are mourning you in a loud voice, and they are beating their faces!’

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

First of all, respect yourself. We know that these manners of yours were bequeathed (and inherited) from the people you follow, but here, you have to be respectful. I imagine, you’d be enraged (and convulsed), if I said that the Ottomans, or the Abbasid "rulers" were drunkards.

Now, let me demolish everything you said. Here, hold my monocle and whiskers.

In Sīrāt Iʿbn Ishaq, page 713, Sīrāt Iʿbn Hisham, volume 4, page 655, al-Bīdāyaḥ wal-Nīḥāyaḥ, volume 5, page 420:

Aisha said: "The Messenger of Allah died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of Allah died while he was on my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women."

masnad-abu-yala.jpg

 

tareekh-tabri.jpg

More references:

  1. Musnād Ahmad Iʿbn Hanbāl, volume 43, page 369, tradition 26348.
  2. Musnād Aʿbi Yaʿlā al-Mawṣilī, volume 8, page 63, tradition 4586.
  3. Fatḥ al-Bārī, volume 6, page 225, tradition 2420.
  4. Irwa al-Ghalil, volume 7, page 86, (declared ‘Hassan’ by Al-Albaani).

In Imtʿā al-Asmā, volume 2, page 137:

The mothers of believers began to hit their chests and put veil upon their heads, while the women of Ansār were hitting their faces and their voice got hoarse due to screaming.

In Tafsir Iʿbn Kathir, volume 7, page 421, Surah Adh-Dhariyat, verse 29, that Sarah, the wife of Abraham, and the mother of Jacob and Issac slapped/hit her face!

image.jpg

In the book of al-Sīrāh al-Hālābīyā, volume 2, page 295:

When the news reached Uwāīs al-Qārānī in Yemen, that two teeth of the Holy Prophet were broken in the Uhud, he extracted all his teeth. When the Holy Prophet got the news in Medina, that Uwāīs had struck down all his teeth, he exclaimed, “Indeed, Uwāīs is our devoted friend.

If you ask any normal human being, he’ll tell you that what Uwāīs did, is much more severe than tātbīr or lātm.

The renowned Sunni Scholar, Shiekh Fārīd al-Dīn Attār, in Tāzkīrā tul-Awlīyā, pages 15-16 writes:

Hādhrāt Uwāīs said: “If you are from among companions of the Prophet, tell me which tooth of the Holy Prophet was martyred? Also, why did you not break your teeth in adhering to the Prophet?” Upon saying this, he evidenced the fact that his teeth had been broken, and said: “When his tooth was martyred, I broke my tooth, then I thought perhaps it is another tooth, and my continuing to do so, I smashed all of my teeth, and upon doing so I felt comfortable.” Upon witnessing this, the companions proceeded to weep, and they realized that this constituted respect, whilst he had not seen him, he fulfilled the adhered to the obligation to follow the Prophet in its entirety, and taught this lesson when he left this world.

In Tārīkh Baghdad, volume 4, page 422, and Ḥayāt al-Ḥayawān, page 101:

‘He (A'bu Bākr al-Mākkī) said: I heard al-Wārkānī saying: “The day on which Ahmad Iʿbn Hānbāl died, in it ‘Mātām’ and lamentation took place among four types of people: the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians.”

In the book of al-Rīyādḥ al-Nādḥīrā, page 187:

“When Omar died, the jinn recited an elegy: Omar, female jinn are mourning you in a loud voice, and they are beating their faces!’

Maybe you don’t encompass the ability to read so let me repeat: I could care less about sects of Islam. The fact that you find me being critical of Shia interests does not automatically mean I am partial to Sunni interests. I am certain the Ummayads and Abbasids were tyrants. However, I have no shame and accepting that for Safavids as well. They are the door to innovation for the school of Ahlul Bayt.

Next time save yourself time by trying to find Sunni references for me because I could care less about them. Both sects are full of flaws as is their Hadith literature. 

FYI, the Owais story has been debunked by Tashayyu scholars. Even if true, why did Imam Ali not pull out his teeth? Did he not love the Prophet more than Owais? So many problems in relying on that fabricated account. Anyways, that speaks volumes of your Yasser Habib inflicted manhaj. 

Edited by 786:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Received reply from Ayt. Sistani office:

Subject: Taraweeh with fourada intention.

Question: Bismillah
Salam alikum
Is it permissible to stand in taraweeh congregation with Sunnis by doing a fourada (personal) niyyah (intention) ? Would it be permissible if one has to perform taqqiyah and what will be the rule if there is no compulsion of taqqiyah? 

Thank you
Wasalam.

 

In the Name of Allah, the Most High

 

If you are offering your own prayer, there is no problem but taqiyah does not apply in countries like United Kingdom.

 

May Allah grant you success.

www.Sistani.org

Istifta Section - Office of His Eminence Al-Sayyid Ali Al-Sistani

-------------

I read my own prayer and did not do any taqiyah (prayed with open hands and kept turbah). The answer confirms that Alhumdolillah my decision to attend taraweeh did not mean that I was supporting that biddah in any way and there is no problem in what I did.

This answer from Ayatollah Sistani also shows how dangerous it is when people assume that any particular action is forbidden based on their own thoughts and views. That is very problematic. Most people here very wrongly assumed that even a forada intention in taraweeh is forbidden. Such assumptions can be very misleading and one should resort to asking the marja rather than believing that what they think has to be right. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

This answer from Ayatollah Sistani also shows how dangerous it is when people assume that any particular action is forbidden based on their own thoughts and views. That is very problematic. Most people here very wrongly assumed that even a forada intention in taraweeh is forbidden. Such assumptions can be very misleading and one should resort to asking the marja rather than believing that what they think has to be right. 

Salam his fatwa is for United Kingdom that Sunnis have upper hand &they can harm Shia Muslims but he doesn't deny that Tarawih is Bidah ,your case was an exception & you were with good people not radical ones but at the end as much as possible we must avoid this bidah on Sunni dominated places , except for Taqyiah

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 but he doesn't deny that Tarawih is Bidah

Salam. Nobody here denies that Taraweeh is biddah. This is not the point of the topic at all. The question is about "fourada intention" and now we know there is no problem in this, contrary to what everyone here was assuming. Ofcourse, it doesn't mean that it is recommended but the important point is that it is not forbidden. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Salam. Nobody here denies that Taraweeh is biddah. This is not the point of the topic at all. The question is about "fourada intention" and now we know there is no problem in this, contrary to what everyone here was assuming. Ofcourse, it doesn't mean that it is recommended but the important point is that it is not forbidden. 

Imagine in the villages of Malaysia, when the local people need to do taraweeh. And among them are Shi'a whose the Taqiyyah is necessary. This law will be necessary for him, because if he does not attend there, the local village people will notice him and inform to police. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2019 at 7:52 PM, Mahdavist said:

Walaikum as salam brother

I am not aware of the fiqhi ruling, however I would assume that it is problematic since you are participating (outwardly) in an innovation. 

Wallahu a'lam

Isn't innovation an extreme label as the point made was to do it at home instead of the mosque and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) feared the people would consider it to be an obligation.

For as I read it is more suggested to be a sin which I do not believe to be correct.

Even though it was never practiced this way by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) nor Abu Bakr (رضي الله عنه).

But again, this is what my heart says.

I however do not attend Taraweeh in the mosque but still believe it to be rewarded but not as much as doing at home.

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reply from Syed Sistani's office is for United Kingdom, not Malaysia. 

There is no problem in reading your own prayer in taraweeh congregation in United Kingdom without doing any Taqqiyah. Some Shias will find this concept hard to digest.

Edited by Maisam Haider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

There is no problem in reading your own prayer in taraweeh congregation in United Kingdom without doing any Taqqiyah. Some Shias will find this concept hard to digest.

Yes you can do, but why in the world you want do that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Yes you can do, but why in the world you want do that?

Once the permission is established why should one have to explain himself?

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

Received reply from Ayt. Sistani office:

Subject: Taraweeh with fourada intention.

Question: Bismillah
Salam alikum
Is it permissible to stand in taraweeh congregation with Sunnis by doing a fourada (personal) niyyah (intention) ? Would it be permissible if one has to perform taqqiyah and what will be the rule if there is no compulsion of taqqiyah? 

Thank you
Wasalam.

 

In the Name of Allah, the Most High

 

If you are offering your own prayer, there is no problem but taqiyah does not apply in countries like United Kingdom.

 

May Allah grant you success.

www.Sistani.org

Istifta Section - Office of His Eminence Al-Sayyid Ali Al-Sistani

-------------

I read my own prayer and did not do any taqiyah (prayed with open hands and kept turbah). The answer confirms that Alhumdolillah my decision to attend taraweeh did not mean that I was supporting that biddah in any way and there is no problem in what I did.

This answer from Ayatollah Sistani also shows how dangerous it is when people assume that any particular action is forbidden based on their own thoughts and views. That is very problematic. Most people here very wrongly assumed that even a forada intention in taraweeh is forbidden. Such assumptions can be very misleading and one should resort to asking the marja rather than believing that what they think has to be right. 

 

:salam:

MashaAllah, I thought just like Ayatollah Sistani 

:clap:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...