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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ejaz

A response to the wahhabi documentary! (Islamic Pulse)

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On 5/15/2019 at 12:44 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

This is not valid, because linguistically la'n means to be expelled and dismissed and nothing to do with verbally sending la'nah. When used verbally or as a noun in its creative meaning (insha'), it is then used as a supplication or a request asking one to be expelled and dismissed from something. This later meaning is what we understand today, even though the former meaning of being expelled and dIsmissed was the dominant meaning being used in the Qur'an.

 

On 5/15/2019 at 12:44 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

There is no verse in the Qur'an that has anything to do with proving the legal permissibility of verbally cursing In this world, except one or two verses (one of them being the one above) and the most they can prove - if we try - is the permissibility (not Istihbab, let alone Wujub) of doing la'n of disbelievers (not Muslims), and not anything more than that.

I would also like to bring more verses into your consideration which are mentioning the verbal cursing:

وَالَّذِينَ يَرْمُونَ أَزْوَاجَهُمْ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُمْ شُهَدَاءُ إِلَّا أَنْفُسُهُمْ فَشَهَادَةُ أَحَدِهِمْ أَرْبَعُ شَهَادَاتٍ بِاللَّهِ ۙ إِنَّهُ لَمِنَ الصَّادِقِينَ {6}

[Shakir 24:6] And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.

وَالْخَامِسَةُ أَنَّ لَعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ إِنْ كَانَ مِنَ الْكَاذِبِينَ {7}

[Shakir 24:7] And the fifth (time) that the curse of Allah be on him if he is one of the liars.

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On 5/15/2019 at 9:48 PM, Guest Bu Noor Al Bahraini said:

This is untrue. I am Bahraini. There are multiple large Shia mosques and hussiniyyahs in Manama, Bahrain as well as other cities. Even situated right next to large Sunni mosques. 

Nice try, but how about no. Despite the fact that the biggest mosque in the country located in Manama, Al-Fateh Mosque built in 1989 and named after the first of al-Khalifa’s (!), can hold up to 7,000 worshippers and that the native (Shia) Bahrainis nowadays make up 70% of Muslims, the “Grand Mufti” of Bahrain, as well as the head of al-Fateh Mosque, is a Salafi appointed by the regime. Over 400 historical Shia mosques were destroyed in regime’s campaign since 2011. 

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On 5/15/2019 at 10:48 AM, Guest Bu Noor Al Bahraini said:

This is untrue. I am Bahraini. There are multiple large Shia mosques and hussiniyyahs in Manama, Bahrain as well as other cities. Even situated right next to large Sunni mosques. 

 

Photo_talks_1558083891436.jpg

Name one please, so far only found 3 main ones on Wiki and 2 main ones on Google in the capital none appear to be Shia. Unless you're talking about some shop-front prayer room.

20190517_090927.thumb.jpg.9dd18dae8e51db4de03f1ffdb5f4c6a4.jpg

20190517_091346.jpg

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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8 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

Goes to show we should be careful about what we say.

No they said nothing wrong. This is to Muzzafer Hyder to be careful of what he says when he talks in a youtube video and even if I find this youtube channel (Sunni defense) stupid they are in some ways right to show that he says some nonsense.

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Anyway there is something that "Sunni defense" seems to not understand. Yes we do takfir on most of their revered figures but when we are talking about "Shia Sunni unity" this is more about common political goal than anything else, we have different beliefs and we will not change that for please them.

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59 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

See from 4:15

Y'all Youtube famous now guys :clap:

We made it. We da best.

 

@AStruggler @Hassan- @Ibn al-Hussain @Ibn Al-Ja'abi @starlight 

I’m actually laughing rn :hahaha: @Propaganda_of_the_Deed,

I sawww! Damn these guys really keeping track of our every move.

SDL! IF YOU’RE READING THIS, GET OFF YOUR SCREEN AND GO OUTSIDE AND GO FOR A JOG OR SOMETHING! AND DON’T BE SNAKES AND MISUSE MY POST LIKE THAT NEXT TIME! 

Edited by AStruggler

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4 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Name one please, so far only found 3 main ones on Wiki and 2 main ones on Google in the capital none appear to be Shia. Unless you're talking about some shop-front prayer room.

Salam Current government of Bahrain is destroying Shia mosques or doesn’t let them to repair old mosques also censors name of Shia mosques but Bahrain like Yemen is one of first & oldest Shia communities but always suffers from Nasibi rulers that just from timely Safavids to Pahvali dynasty that was a part of Iran ,it’s Shias we’re in peace but Shah of Iran under British & American pressure declared it idepndent in a show off forced Iranian parliament to declares it an independent state  from  that in recent years their government started oppressing of Shias & destroying their mosques or hanging them to Sunni mosques 

also one time Imam Mahdi saved Shias of Bahrain from a genocide 

During the 2011 Bahraini uprising, as many as 43 Shia mosques[2][3] and tens of other religious structures including graves, shrines and hussainiyas (religious meeting houses) were intentionally destroyed or damaged by the ruling Sunni Bahraini authorities in the country.[4] The widespread action in Shiite villages across this island was seen as part of a government crackdown on Shiite dissidents, although Bahrain's Minister of Justice and Islamic Affairs, Sheikh Khalid bin Ali bin Abdulla al Khalifa, claimed that only mosques illegally built without permission had been targeted.[4]

The Bahrain Center for Human Rights has classified the widespread cultural destruction as "crimes of genocide under the UN Convention on Genocide (1948)."[1]

 

In July 2011, Iranian media reported that at least 52 mosques and over 500 religious Shia sites had been levelled in Bahrain.[5][6] Among those destroyed was the ornate 400-year-old Ottoman Amir Mohammed Braighi mosque in Aali.[4] In Nuwaidrat, where the first anti-government protests began on February 14, only the portico of the Mo'men mosque was left standing (see left). Many others in the village were also bulldozed.[4] One of the most famous Shia shrines which was destroyed was that belonging to Bahraini Shia spiritual leader, Sheikh Abdul Amir al-Jamri, who died in 2006. Its golden dome had been removed.[7] Graffiti insulting the Shia was also left on some of the desecrated mosques.[7] The Sasa'a bin Sawhan Mosque in Askar, an ancient mosque and mausoleum which dates to shortly after the death of Muhammad, was also damaged.[2]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Shia_mosques_during_the_2011_Bahraini_uprising

building of Christian  Qabti church in place of demolished Shia mosque

https://fa.alalamtv.net/news/1872884/تخریب-مساجد-شیعیان-و-ساخت-کلیسا-در-بحرین

The Bahraini regime has razed to the ground a recently reconstructed Shia mosque without any prior warning as part of a heavy-handed crackdown on dissent in the tiny Persian Gulf kingdom.

Bulldozers accompanied by security forces from the Al Khalifah regime on Sunday destroyed Imam Hassan al-Askari mosque in Hamad town, southwest of the capital Manama.

The destruction of the Shia mosque came after it had been painstakingly rebuilt by local residents.

The structure was among dozens of Shia religious gathering places that were initially demolished during the onset of Bahrain’s uprising in 2011.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/30/560206/Bahrain-Shia-mosque-Hamad-town

Imam Mahdi helps the Bahraini Shia -English Subtitle 

Also there is some prophecies that accustomed to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) about unrest in Bahrain that by killing a high ranking Shia in Al-Diraz region in Bahrain and bloody events in Shia regions of Bahrain & building a bridge from Bahrain to Qatif ,Iran will come to their help & will recapture Bahrain to Qatif that even Sunnis like as Sheikh Imran Hussain based on Sunni sources knows building of bridge from Bahrain to Qatif as signs of Imam Mahdi (aj) reappearance 

Bahrain Saudi sea Bridge I longest sea Bridge of Asia

Bahrain tv caught ‘Red Handed” mirror

Bahrain update -Sayed Mahdi Al-Modarrasi

Bahrain Interview -Sayed Mahdi Al-Modarrasi & Zahra Alavi

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 5/15/2019 at 8:38 PM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I have left polemics many years ago as it does not heed any results and my energy and time is better spent elsewhere. Most Muslims today could give two damns about these discussions and more fundamental discussions regarding religion, God, metaphysics, spirituality, ethics and law need to focused on - these guys do not have anything substantial to offer in those areas as they are stuck in history and their lives are an inconsistent mess, predicating classical interpretations on the modern world. These guys will comfort the Sunni laity by quoting the theoretical and/or taqiyyah/maslaha-based opinions of their Salafi scholars saying that the disbelievers in the West are in an 'ahd with us and hence the laws of a harbi do not apply on them. However, these things like "you have to follow the law of the land" (:hahaha:) are said due to maslaha, to keep people at bay and to be able to live and survive, otherwise they know there is no 'ahd here. An 'ahd is done by a Wali Amr and the Imam of the Muslims on behalf of the Muslims. Who is their Wali Amr who has done such an 'ahd with the disbelievers of the West on behalf of all the Muslims of the world? King Salman? The paradigms have all changed. Are they recognizing modern nation states - democracies or kingdoms - as jurisprudentially justified, let alone be representative of the Muslims? In addition, such an 'ahd cannot occur for more than a number of years (usually a decade) before falling back to the primary ruling of wujub of offensive war, so even if there was any 'ahd it is long expired (please show us where this 'ahd is in the first place and what were the conditions of this 'ahd - an 'ahd cannot even allow certain conditions such as the permissibility of the disbelievers to insult Islam and the Muslims or things which allow them to weaken the Muslims and blaspheme against the Prophet and so on - the West thrives on being able to say and do all these things). Even if we were to agree with them and say there is some sort of hypothetical 'ahd which Shar'an necessitates peace, such an 'ahd has long been broken by many of the Western countries due to their foreign and domestic policies and warfare against Muslims and Islam as a whole (both inside and outside their countries). 

Ibn Taymiyyah:

 أن ناقض العهد و المرتد المؤذي لا ريب أنه محارب لله و رسوله فإن حقيقة نقض العهد محاربة المسلمين و محاربة المسلمين محاربة لله و رسوله 

As for one who violates an 'ahd and an apostate who causes disturbance, there is no doubt that they are Muharib against Allah and His Messenger. The mere reality of violating a contract ('ahd) is doing Muharabah against the Muslims and Muharabah against the Muslims is Muharabah against Allah and His Messenger.

 

They replied again, however they literally did their best to try and avoid addressing your points. Pretty much 90% of the points you made were completely ignored:597738278_ScreenShot2019-05-17at10_39_42PM.png.c2096f29236a67ce1e805644cf1c6ad6.png

I hate how they keep going "oh ibn Taymiyya and our fiqh works aren't infallible"....these fools don't understand the fact that Ibn Taymiyya didn't just come up with this stuff on his own, he got these principles from Qur'an and Sunnah.

First, do these people actually accept that we have a 'ahd with the western country that we are living in, and as part of this 'ahd, we have agreed (or at the very least, have made no condition) that it is permissible for the Prophet (s) to be insulted and cursed and that these countries are allowed to bomb and wage war against Muslims? This needs to be answered.

Maybe it would be beneficial to present verses and narrations to these people, and show them that their scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah didn't just get his principles because it came to him in a dream,  and how in reality, a 'ahd doesn't really exist. 

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Though I am accused of pandering to Sunnis, now you have seen the extent of what words on this forum can have on a wider scale, is it not time for the moderating team to follow advise from our ulema and make sure polemical discussions are conducted giving respect to the fact others may not believe as we do, and may revere individuals we do not? 

 

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The people Allah will hold responsible, I truly believe, are not just the ones abusing and maligning, but the ones on here in charge, with the power to have an important internal discussion and a zero tolerance approach, so that words spoken by Shias here can not be used as propaganda. The buck rests with you so long as you hold those positions of power, because with power comes responsibility. 

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9 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

They replied again, however they literally did their best to try and avoid addressing your points. Pretty much 90% of the points you made were completely ignored

There is nothing to respond to, they will end up opening a can of worms for themselves, especially when you start digging deeper. Until then they can keep doing taqiyyah and telling people they are in an 'ahd :rolleyes:.

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