Is it permissible to follow another Marja3 for Ramadan?

[Guest TheGuest]

Salaam,

Is it permissible to follow another maja3 for Ramadan regarding the sighting of the moon. My family, all Shias, are always split between two marja3s. Hence the start of Ramadan and end of Ramadan is always different along with laylatul Qadr. It creates a lot of tension in the house and disunity, specially amongst the greater family when we are all Shias living in the same place but starting at different times.

So for the sake of unity and enjoying what could potentially be our last Ramadan together is it permissible to follow the ruling of Ayatullah Khamenei rather than Sistani for Ramadan? 

[Hassan- 3,539]

For the reasons you have given, no it’s not allowed.

[OrthodoxTruth 382]

11 hours ago, Guest TheGuest said:

Salaam,

Is it permissible to follow another maja3 for Ramadan regarding the sighting of the moon. My family, all Shias, are always split between two marja3s. Hence the start of Ramadan and end of Ramadan is always different along with laylatul Qadr. It creates a lot of tension in the house and disunity, specially amongst the greater family when we are all Shias living in the same place but starting at different times.

So for the sake of unity and enjoying what could potentially be our last Ramadan together is it permissible to follow the ruling of Ayatullah Khamenei rather than Sistani for Ramadan? 

Sounds like a Sunni problem to me, and not a Shia one. It is makrooh to follow any other marja’ on fiqh rulings than the one that you follow on a daily basis. It is not a buffet where we can pick and choose certain fatwas that suit our needs and wants. I may be mistaken, but I doubt that the times differ considerably between the Ayatollah Sistani and Sayyid Khamenei. 

[Guest Nani-Amma]

Najaf has four Marajae, Qom has six. 

They may or may not have the different fatawa (by moon seen globally or by the ufq), but I haven’t heard of the two Eid Salaat happening in either Najaf or Qom. 

This tells me that regardless of their opinion of the start and end of Ramadhan, ulema themselves follow the majority of Shia in their region. 

Back in the days of Ayatullah Khoi (رضي الله عنه), his fatwa of global moon was there but Shia in India and Pakistan used to make it with traditional Sunnis who follow the ‘moon in ufq’ fatwa of their ulema. 

Shia obviously never followed the Saudi calendar. 

So yes, follow the majority community of Shia in your area. No need to waste your Ramadhan spirituality in minion debates. 

 

[7ssein 232]

3 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Sounds like a Sunni problem to me, and not a Shia one. It is makrooh to follow any other marja’ on fiqh rulings than the one that you follow on a daily basis. It is not a buffet where we can pick and choose certain fatwas that suit our needs and wants. I may be mistaken, but I doubt that the times differ considerably between the Ayatollah Sistani and Sayyid Khamenei. 

Both Sayyid Sistani and Imam Khamenei only use ru'ya/view only using the naked eye. The difference they have is in Wahdatul Ufuq/unity of the night. So this makes a difference in the Americas because the moon can be seen before the more West you get. For example, many years, the moon will be visible in California, and most of America will share a horizon with California, so it would be eid for most of America, while with Sayyid Sistani, it would only be in California, and wherever else it may be seen.

Last year Imam Khamenei declared eid to be with Sayyid Sistani, only for his representative, in California, to sight it, and Imam Khamenei then declared it eid for all of America a day before Sayyid Sistani, so the Imam Khamenei followers that went to sleep early woke up confused.

Also, As far as I know, it is not just makruh to pick and choose, it is plain out not allowed, unless you find them to be equal in knowledge.

[Guest TheGuest]

7 hours ago, 7ssein said:

Both Sayyid Sistani and Imam Khamenei only use ru'ya/view only using the naked eye. The difference they have is in Wahdatul Ufuq/unity of the night. So this makes a difference in the Americas because the moon can be seen before the more West you get. For example, many years, the moon will be visible in California, and most of America will share a horizon with California, so it would be eid for most of America, while with Sayyid Sistani, it would only be in California, and wherever else it may be seen.

Last year Imam Khamenei declared eid to be with Sayyid Sistani, only for his representative, in California, to sight it, and Imam Khamenei then declared it eid for all of America a day before Sayyid Sistani, so the Imam Khamenei followers that went to sleep early woke up confused.

Also, As far as I know, it is not just makruh to pick and choose, it is plain out not allowed, unless you find them to be equal in knowledge.

Thanks for explaining it to the other member, we live in the United Kingdom but the Khamenei and Fadlallah marja3 are started their fast on the 6th whilst Sistani in the United Kingdom is saying 7th. Last year we also two different Eids here in London, Sistani being a day later than everyone else, same as the year before that... So it's very much a Shia problem.

I don't have enough knowledge to say who's 'more' knowledgeable but I do believe Ayatullah Khamenei is on equal level at least, and I also prefer how public he is with his people and Shias. Sistani never speaks or addresses people like Khamenei does, would that be a good enough reason to switch marja3?

[BowTie 323]

In general, sighting of the moon does not even need a marja’.

If you saw it with your own eyes or you know someone you fully trust and is known to be a trustworthy person saw it and has 2 trustworthy witnesses who were with him. Then yes you may follow that.

 

[Al-Hussayni 694]

Strive to follow the ahadith of the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) instead of just a marja's opinions which only create confusion. The Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) have given us the way to removing all these issues in relation to moonsighting.

The instructions of the Imams (عليه السلام) is to begin fasting upon sighting the moon and end on sighting the moon. However, what if we can't sight it due to clouds etc? Then what?

 

A number of our companions, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Bin Isa, from Hamza Abu Ya’la, from Muhammad Bin 
Al Hassan Bin Abu Khalid, raising it, 
(It has been narrated) from Abu Abdullah (as): ‘When the new moon of the month of Rajab holds  good, so count fifty nine (59) days and Fast on the sixtieth (day)’ (29 days of Shaban and 30 days of month of Ramazan).

 

Ali Bin Ibrahim, from one of our companions, from Muhammad Bin Isa Bin Ubeyd, from Ibrahim Bin Muhammad Al Madany, from Imran Al Za’afrany who said, 
‘I said to Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) said: ‘They remains cloudy upon us in Al-Iraq for the day, and the two days, and the three. So which day should we be Fasting?’ He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Look at which day 
you Fasted the past year, and Fast on the fifth day

 

[7ssein 232]

2 hours ago, BowTie said:

In general, sighting of the moon does not even need a marja’.

If you saw it with your own eyes or you know someone you fully trust and is known to be a trustworthy person saw it and has 2 trustworthy witnesses who were with him. Then yes you may follow that.

 

This is true, but you have to refer to your marja's conditions on the moon sighting. Look at my Wahdatul Ufuq example from my previous comment. If two trustworthy people saw it in one part of the world, it would not count under Sayed Sistani, but if you shared part of the night with them, it would count under Imam Khamenei.

[7ssein 232]

6 hours ago, Guest TheGuest said:

Thanks for explaining it to the other member, we live in the United Kingdom but the Khamenei and Fadlallah marja3 are started their fast on the 6th whilst Sistani in the United Kingdom is saying 7th. Last year we also two different Eids here in London, Sistani being a day later than everyone else, same as the year before that... So it's very much a Shia problem.

I don't have enough knowledge to say who's 'more' knowledgeable but I do believe Ayatullah Khamenei is on equal level at least, and I also prefer how public he is with his people and Shias. Sistani never speaks or addresses people like Khamenei does, would that be a good enough reason to switch marja3?

There is a difference between believing they are equal in knowledge, and not knowing which is more knowledgeable.

If you find they are equal, you can choose.

If you're not sure, usually you pick the stricter ruling, but I'm not sure what would constitutes as that in terms of Ramadan times.

[Guest TheGuest]

Which marja3 believes that it's one moon for everyone and one horizon for everyone? I woke up today to find out that it's the first day of Ramadan for Sistani followers in the United States... Mean while for Europe, Scandinavian countries and the Middle East is Tuesday. 

I might be a layman but this does not make sense for me what so ever and I don't want to be dealing with this next year. I disagree that we have different different Ramadans because they have sunset slightly later or earlier.

[Guest Guesttttt]

Is it permissible to follow a marja3 who's Ayatullah has passed away, e.g Khoei or Fadlallah? I can actually make sense of their rulings on sightings for Ramadan and agree with it. Quite depressing that I woke up today here in the United Kingdom with all the Shias but Sistani and Khamenei followers are the only ones not fasting, even though the moon has been sighted in the US. This happens every year and already arguments between family are taking place.