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In the Name of God بسم الله

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7 minutes ago, Faruk said:

How can I know?

I don't know Arabic yet you give me an Arabic text again?

Didnt I already give you the translation for it, brother?

The Messenger of Allah said: “It is as if I am looking at the rabbis of the Children of Israel, placing their rights on their lefts.” (e.g., right hand on left).

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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7 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Watch this please

This is what I saw too. Glad you remembered which scholar spoke of it!

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19 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Why can't both be right or permissible?

Because, we’re not the ones that rule & judge, G-d does.

20 minutes ago, Faruk said:

 It's very easy to imagine that during long prayers people used Qabd to ease the burden and that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did this as well or at least allowed it or that people believed it to be permissible because it was done in nawafil prayers at well.

And what made you so sure about it? There, you’re in fact, accusing our holy Prophet of contradictory sentiments. For, we can unarguably see in other texts, that he forbade (or prohibited..) likening oneself to Jews, and Zoroastrians.

23 minutes ago, Faruk said:

 As long one places his hands in known positions or in sadl I believe it does not invalidate one's Islam.

You have no right to issue rulings, unless you’re an agreed-upon jurist. And right now, I cannot see you in the position to issue such rulings.

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12 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Because, we’re not the ones that rule & judge, G-d does.

And what made you so sure about it? There, you’re in fact, accusing our holy Prophet of contradictory sentiments. For, we can unarguably see in other texts, that he forbade (or prohibited..) likening oneself to Jews, and Zoroastrians.

You have no right to issue rulings, unless you’re an agreed-upon jurist. And right now, I cannot see you in the position to issue such rulings.

As I said before I do not have a sectarian mindset so I am not bothered by issues like this. Furthermore I said 'I believe' and not 'you should believe'.

It's funny to see how scholars of both camps condemn hundreds of millions of other Muslims by the position of their hands during prayer.

There is no proof in Qur'an for Sadl nor Qabd. So to condemn my fellow Muslims for this has no ground. Only in hadith texts which differ from sect to sect.

Edited by Faruk

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17 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Didnt I already give you the translation for it, brother?

The Messenger of Allah said: “It is as if I am looking at the rabbis of the Children of Israel, placing their rights on their lefts.” (e.g., right hand on left).

There were several other questions I asked. I'd like to know the details. What came before and after this sentence.

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4 minutes ago, Faruk said:

There is no proof in Qur'an for Sadl nor Qabd. So to condemn my fellow Muslims for this has no ground. Only in hadith texts.

The Qur'an speaks of Qiyam, (standing in salah) and verbs relating to it.

Standing by default is hands at your sides. The Qur'an does not, as you concede talk about crossing or folding hands/arms in salah. 

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18 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

The Qur'an speaks of Qiyam, (standing in salah) and verbs relating to it.

Standing by default is hands at your sides. The Qur'an does not, as you concede talk about crossing or folding hands/arms in salah. 

That's true but to clasp one's hand does not invalidate the standing position and as these positions (hands below, above the navel or on the chest) are mass transmitted through the centuries it seems no issue to me. As there are more commands in the Qur'an which are explained in detail in ahaadith but which do not contradict the command itself.

It would be something else when someone proposes to put our hands in the the air or behind our back.

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

or rather what I understood to be "questionable practises" shall we say. 

Dropping any practice itself evidence that you are not satisfied with the answers you received for your questions. Or are you still looking for answers to your questions?

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9 minutes ago, Urwatul Wuthqa said:

Dropping any practice itself evidence that you are not satisfied with the answers you received for your questions. Or are you still looking for answers to your questions?

Not still looking. I understand the historical context for mentioning Imam Ali (عليه السلام) at a time of anti Ahlul Bayt pro Umayyad propaganda. But in terms of being authentic, I just prefer to say the correct adhan (of course I include haya al khair al amal).

I have no issue with combining salah, I just recognise it is better to separate. No one here will argue the Prophet and Imams mostly prayed 3 times. It was the rarity rather than the norm. Yet for us it seems the opposite.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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30 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Not still looking. I understand the historical context for mentioning Imam Ali (عليه السلام) at a time of anti Ahlul Bayt pro Umayyad propaganda. But in terms of being authentic, I just prefer to say the correct adhan (of course I include haya al khair al amal).

I have no issue with combining salah, I just recognise it is better to separate. No one here will argue the Prophet and Imams mostly prayed 3 times. It was the rarity rather than the norm. Yet for us it seems the opposite.

It are these issues I laugh about. 

Both ways are as valid as can be just as sadl and qabd yet we Muslims made  stumbling blocks of these and make issues about it for 1400 years.

There are much more important and urgent issues to worry about.

 

Edited by Faruk

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57 minutes ago, Faruk said:

As I said before I do not have a sectarian mindset so I am not bothered by issues like this. Furthermore I said 'I believe' and not 'you should believe'.

It's funny to see how scholars of both camps condemn hundreds of millions of other Muslims by the position of their hands during prayer.

There is no proof in Qur'an for Sadl nor Qabd. So to condemn my fellow Muslims for this has no ground. Only in hadith texts which differ from sect to sect.

I have a penchant for people that use such utterances (or beliefs...), when they’re put through critical situations.

(e.g., ‘There is no proof for so-and-so in the holy scripture, why should I believe in it?!’)

Howbeit, there’s also ‘no proof..’ for the amount of prostrations, call to prayer or kneeling... Over and above, there isn’t ‘proof’ for the way to make pilgrimage or what to say in the prayer, (e.g., the verses or passages you recite during it). 

Therefore, since we don’t have these things in our holy scripture, including: the amount of prostrations, and so on— according to your analogy, we should forsake them and pray as we want, and simply ignore the traditions, and firmly grasp with the scripture alone.

(59:7)

“Whatever the Messenger has given you - take; And what he has forbidden you - refrain from;”
 
 

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