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Ruqaya101

Marital rape and Islam

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In the chat room, a user mentioned that there is no such thing as marital rape in Islam because a man has a right to fulfil his desires and it is haram for a woman to deny him that.

some agreed.

others disagreed.

what is your opinion of this, and can you provide a hadith, saying, or quote that supports your opinion?

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I don't know why people are promoting this sick idea that Islam allows a man to force himself on his wife. Some non-Muslims are asking whether Islam allows rape of slaves when it was still the norm in society and permissible. 

Can any sane Muslim man here contemplate forcing himself on his wife, or if they lived back during those days, a bondswoman? 

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Don't know about the hadith but there's fiqh ruling from Sayed Ali Sistani. 

2421. For a woman with whom permanent marriage is contracted, it is haraam to go out of the house without the permission of her husband, though her leaving may not violate the rights of the husband. Also she should submit herself to his sexual desires, and should not prevent him from having sexual intercourse with her, without justifiable excuse. And as long as she does not fail in her duties, it is obligatory on the husband to provide for her food, clothes and housing. And if he does not provide the same, regardless of whether he is able to provide them or not, he remains indebted to the wife.

https://www.Sistani.org/english/book/48/2349/

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37 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Don't know about the hadith but there's fiqh ruling from Sayed Ali Sistani. 

2421. For a woman with whom permanent marriage is contracted, it is haraam to go out of the house without the permission of her husband, though her leaving may not violate the rights of the husband. Also she should submit herself to his sexual desires, and should not prevent him from having sexual intercourse with her, without justifiable excuse. And as long as she does not fail in her duties, it is obligatory on the husband to provide for her food, clothes and housing. And if he does not provide the same, regardless of whether he is able to provide them or not, he remains indebted to the wife.

https://www.Sistani.org/english/book/48/2349/

All Sayed Sistani is saying here is that within a marriage, people shouldn't hold off on intimacy , which is a very important part, without a valid reason. At no point does he say a man can force himself onto his wife. 

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By the way, we have traditions which state that if a wife does not fulfil the sexual needs of her husband, God is displeased with her. That itself is an indication that it is possible for  woman to say no - and the consequences will be between her and God if she withholds an important part of a marriage without valid reason. 

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Just now, 7ssein said:

The husband can't force himself onto his wife. If he asks, the wife should say yes, unless she has a justifiable reason not to. Basically, the husband can ask. The wife should say yes, unless there is an excuse. If she says no without a reason, she committed Haram, but the husband can't force himself onto her.

 I think if a wife doesn't want to have sex, obviously there is an excuse or reason for it. :birthday: 

P.S. Usually the man ought to look at where he went wrong for why his wife doesn't want to have sex with him.

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Just now, BowTie said:

 I think if a wife doesn't want to have sex, obviously there is an excuse or reason for it. :birthday: 

P.S. Usually the man ought to look at where he went wrong for why his wife doesn't want to have sex with him.

Yes, but there are certain permissible reasons to deny, which is why I wrote justifiable.

As for the husband doing something wrong to cause this, I am not sure if punishment of the husband is a justifiable reason, someone will have to check. 

Here's what I'm thinking:

If a husband is oppressive, or doing something wrong towards his wife, it is Haram. I am not sure if punishing him by blocking intercourse is an appropriate punishment, or if it is allowed, or if there may be a separate appropriate punishment. If it is not allowed/forbidden, we can't fight Haram with more Haram, but, again, I'm not sure of the ruling.

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Personally I do not agree, women should be respected. To my surprise I watched a well respected knowledgeable Shia speaker on television say that the woman that called into the Live tv program to say she was forced into muta was at fault and she should not complain of being forced into it. I don't feel comfortable with his answer now, it's inhumane. I think nobody should be forced into physical acts, but if a woman denies a man the pleasure after forming into a relationship through muta or permanent marriage then that I think is wrong on her part but nobody should be forced to marry or have sex with anybody in the first place. That is the problem within our communities which lets outsiders come and rape women.

Edited by Murtaza1

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محمد بن يعقوب ، عن عدة من أصحابنا ، عن أحمد بن محمد ، عن ابن محبوب ،عن مالك بن عطية ، عن محمد بن مسلم ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال :جاءت امرأة إلى النبي ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) فقالت : يا رسول الله ، ما حقالزوج على المرأة ؟ فقال لها : ان تطيعه ، ولا تعصيه ، ولا تصدق من بيته إلاباذنه ، ولا تصوم تطوعا الا بإذنه ، ولا تمنعه نفسها وان كانت على ظهر قتب ، ولاتخرج من بيتها إلاّ بإذنه ، وان خرجت بغير اذنه لعنتها ملائكة السماء وملائكةالارض وملائكة الغضب وملائكة الرحمة حتى ترجع إلى بيتها ، قالت : يا رسولالله ، من أعظم الناس حقا على الرجل ؟ قال : والده فقالت : يا رسول الله منأعظم الناس حقا على المرأة ؟ قال : زوجها ، قالت : فما لي عليه من الحق مثلماله عليّ ؟ قال : لا ، ولا من كلّ مائة واحدة ، الحديث .

ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن الحسن بن محبوب ، نحوه .

 

Muhammad b. Ya`qub from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Mahbub from Malik b. `Atiyya from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام.  He said:  A woman came to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله and said: O Messenger of Allah, what is the right of the husband upon the woman?  So he said to her: That she obeys him, and does not disobey him, and (that) she does not give charity from his house save with his permission, or fast voluntarily save with his permission, or prevent him from herself even if she is on the back of a camel-saddle, or go out from her house save with his permission, and if she goes out without his permission the angels of Heaven and the angels of Earth and the angels of wrath and the angels of mercy curse her until she returns to her house. 

She said: O Messenger of Allah, who is the greatest of the people in right upon the man?  He said: His father. 

So she said: O Messenger of Allah, who is the greatest of the people in right upon the woman?  He said: Her husband. 

She said: So do I not (or: what do I) have upon him of right the like what he has upon me?  He said: No, and not a single (one) from every hundred (rights) (- al-hadith)

And as-Saduq narrated it by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub similarly.

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13 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

To my surprise I watched a well respected knowledgeable Shia speaker on television say that the woman that called into the Live tv program to say she was forced into muta was at fault and she should not complain of being forced into it.

Don't know who the speaker was, but to my limited knowledge, forced marriage is bātil, so the man or whoever forced them into the mut'a is at fault, and the husband is also at fault for forcing himself onto her, that is if he wasn't already at fault for force marrying her.

15 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

I think nobody should be forced into physical acts, but if a woman denies a man the pleasure after forming into a relationship through muta or permanent marriage then that I think is wrong on her part but nobody should be forced to marry or have sex with anybody in the first place. 

Exactly, she is at fault for denying her husband (without a justifiable excuse), but if he forces himself onto her, he is at fault for forcing himself onto her.

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What is the Islamic punishment for a man who forecfully has sex with his wife after she denies him sex on a particular occassion?  Assume in this case there are no bruises or physical marks present. Also assume that it is established beyond any doubt that the sex was forced, through confession or other means.  I don't think this is even considered rape in Islam but in any case, what is the punishment? Proper Islamic sources would be appreciated, not personal opinions.

Edited by King

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6 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

سلام

Having a right and forcing that right are distinct. 

A man can never and should never force his wife to have sex, even though he has the right to ask for sex. 

I couldn't have said it better.

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2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

Don't know who the speaker was, but to my limited knowledge, forced marriage is bātil, so the man or whoever forced them into the mut'a is at fault, and the husband is also at fault for forcing himself onto her, that is if he wasn't already at fault for force marrying her.

The speaker was Sayed Muhammad Al-Musawi. Maybe he was answering from the perspective of the woman having married by her choice, maybe he didn't understand the question properly. His answer surprised me. I think this particular case happened in the United Kingdom, its not a surprise because people in the west are not well educated on Islamic matters, hence the reason for a two hour q&a tv show on Islamic matters every Sunday. Some people take advantage of other people's lack of knowledge or weak states of minds in matters of religion. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

unless she has a justifiable reason

What one person considers "justifiable" another may not. The term "Justifiable" needs to be defined.

2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

If she says no without a reason, she committed Haram

can her simply not being in the mood be considered a valid reason?

2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

there are certain permissible reasons to deny, which is why I wrote justifiable.

Again, "Justifiable" is too vague a word. Its a term that needs to be defined.

2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

As for the husband doing something wrong to cause this, I am not sure if punishment of the husband is a justifiable reason, someone will have to check.

So the husband has no penalty for doing something inconsiderate or insensitive towards his wife? 

2 hours ago, 7ssein said:

I am not sure if punishing him by blocking intercourse is an appropriate punishmen

Its a very powerful punishment, and its not just women that take this tactic. Many men take this route and it drives women to the brink of insanity.

2 hours ago, Qa'im said:

it is true that a permanent wife cannot deny the conjugal rights of her husband if she does not have a legitimate excuse.

again, this is the same as what I said above. What is the definition of "legitimate" in regards to this scenario? Also, does simply not being in the mood qualify as legitimate?

2 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

or prevent him from herself even if she is on the back of a camel-saddle,

What does this mean exactly? Does that have a cultural meaning or is it a literal meaning term when it says "on the back of a Camel-saddle" ?

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I would also add that this myth that marital rape is allowed in Islam is propaganda that originated in and is perpetuated by anti Islam groups. We should be aware of that

Just to say again what has been stated in many other threads

1. A man has the right to ask for sex from his wife

2. She does not have the right to refuse him unless it is a legitimate reason. Legitimate reasons have been stated in many other threads

3. If she refuses him for a reason that is not legitimate she has done a sin

4. If he rapes her because she refuses him, she has done a sin and he has done an even greater sin. If he harms her physically in this act he is liable foe punishment, under Sharia law, secular law and also in the hereafter

 

I hope this is clear for those who havent heard this before

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7 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

I would also add that this myth that marital rape is allowed in Islam is propaganda that originated in and is perpetuated by anti Islam groups. We should be aware of that

Just to say again what has been stated in many other threads

1. A man has the right to ask for sex from his wife

2. She does not have the right to refuse him unless it is a legitimate reason. Legitimate reasons have been stated in many other threads

3. If she refuses him for a reason that is not legitimate she has done a sin

4. If he rapes her because she refuses him, she has done a sin and he has done an even greater sin. If he harms her physically in this act he is liable foe punishment, under Sharia law, secular law and also in the hereafter

 

I hope this is clear for those who havent heard this before

No it is not clear, please answer the question I posted. 

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25 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

What one person considers "justifiable" another may not. The term "Justifiable" needs to be defined.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I previously read that there are certain situations where a women can deny intercourse from her husband from a jurisprudential perspective, which is what I'm trying to talk about here.

25 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

So the husband has no penalty for doing something inconsiderate or insensitive towards his wife?  

If you read my comment, I stated that I'm not sure if this specific punishment (denying intercourse) could be used, or if there if an actual appointed punishment for this situation.

25 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Its a very powerful punishment, and its not just women that take this tactic. Many men take this route and it drives women to the brink of insanity.

If I see someone sin by purposely skip their Salah, so I whip him 50 times, it is a powerful punishment. Is it a proper punishment for this situation though? No, as there are special punishments for different situations here, and that is what I'm referring to.

 

Edit: I could be wrong, I can't find it in any scholarly works.

Edited by 7ssein

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24 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

What does this mean exactly? Does that have a cultural meaning or is it a literal meaning term when it says "on the back of a Camel-saddle" ?

Even when it doesn't seem or feel convenient...

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1 hour ago, King said:

What is the Islamic punishment for a man who forecfully has sex with his wife after she denies him sex on a particular occassion?  Assume in this case there are no bruises or physical marks present. Also assume that it is established beyond any doubt that the sex was forced, through confession or other means.  I don't think this is even considered rape in Islam but in any case, what is the punishment? Proper Islamic sources would be appreciated, not personal opinions.

There may or may not be a punishment per Hukm Sharia. If causes any injuries during the course of the act, even non permenant injuries like a red mark, he has to compensate her monitarily for that injury. 

If there is no permenant or non permenant injury, then there is no Hukm Sharia or Kaffarah due, but that doesnt mean it isnt haram and liable for punishment in other forms. All haram is punished unless it is forgiven by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This punisment could take many different forms, either in this world or the next.

If a wife is constantly refusing her husband for not legitimate reasons he has the option to be patient and examine his behaviour toward her. Many times when he reflects on how he treats his wife, in general, he will realize the reason why she is refusing and try to change his behaviour toward her, ie treat her kindly, generously, and with respect and appreciation. If he reflects, changes his behaviour, and she still persists in her refusal, he has the option of divorce and / or marry another wife.  So there is no Islamically legitimate reason to commit this act because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given him many options and choices to avoid this

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2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

What one person considers "justifiable" another may not. The term "Justifiable" needs to be defined.

Maybe the idea of a justifiable reason is to be subjective as there are many reasons why a woman would need to say no.  There could never be a finite list. If there was, everything that was not listed could be viewed as acceptable. A legitimate reason for saying no could be fear that her husband is angry and out of control and will most likely hurt her or that he is presently hurting her as in forcing himself on her.  That would be justifiable.  A woman does not need to remain where she is being treated unjustly and being injured. A completely different legitimate reason might be that he has an active or not treated STD for example and she fears for her health or even perhaps her unborn child's health.  There are more reasons to say no other than the stated ones of sick and having menses.  Why this has to be seen  as such a “complicated” issue is ridiculous.  You don't cause harm to your wife.    

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9 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

There may or may not be a punishment per Hukm Sharia. If causes any injuries during the course of the act, even non permenant injuries like a red mark, he has to compensate her monitarily for that injury. 

If there is no permenant or non permenant injury, then there is no Hukm Sharia or Kaffarah due, but that doesnt mean it isnt haram and liable for punishment in other forms. All haram is punished unless it is forgiven by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This punisment could take many different forms, either in this world or the next.

Okay, so if man forcefully has sex with his wife against her will then he will only be punished by sharia courts if there are injuries or bruises, and even in these cases he can just pay a sum of money and get off.

Can you provide a fatwa or ruling from Islamic sources that states forcefully having sex with one's wife is haram or a sin?  You seem to be claiming it is and I think you are right but I would appreciate some evidence to the effect.  Also, what category of sin would this act fall into?

Thanks

Edited by King

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Martial rape within Islamic marriage is categorised as zinā bī al-ikrāh (زنا بالإكراه‎), it is addressed in sharia law since way before Westerners even came to acknowledge its existence. Unlike adultery or fornication, martial rape doesn’t require four male witnesses of an outstanding character to be proven. It is conceptualized as harm inflicted on the wife rather than violation of consent. Wife can’t be forced to have sexual intercourse with her husband against her will. That said, Ayatollah Sadiq Hussaini Shirazi (أسكنه الله فسيح جناته) explains that a husband has two rights over his wife, one of them is,

Quote

the conjugal right or the right to intimate relations, with the provision that this does not constitute harm or discomfort to the wife,

whilst explaining what constitutes “harm or discomfort to the wife”,

Quote

Harm could be physical or psychological. Needless to say, in the absence of the issues of harm and discomfort she is bound to observe it, and failure to observe it without lawful excuse would be sinful. However, this right does not allow him to have it his way by force and coercion or without her consent or willingness, as that would be covered by the prohibition of harm – physical, psychological, or emotional.

The explanation continues for few more pages, but I think that should be enough as an answer. 

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Salaam, 

Found this:

(2) The natural sexual desire is both strong and significant. Everyone should have a partner for satisfying their sexual needs in a secure and serene environment. Everyone should enjoy sexual satisfaction in a correct and proper manner. Those who abstain from marriage often suffer from both physical and psychological disorders. Such disorders and certain social problems are a direct consequence of the abstinence of youth from marriage.

In my personal opinion, 2 people probably shouldn't be getting married if they aren't going to have sex. But if a husbands wife just doesn't feel like having sex one day (but they do have sex oftentimes) then the husband should just excuse it and wait for the next day or whenever she does feels like it... But he should never force her, that just boils my blood. 

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6 hours ago, Ali~J said:

2 people probably shouldn't be getting married if they aren't going to have sex

Indeed, from what I have discussed with scholars about the lack of sexual desire, this is the opinion I've also received. Sadly, people lacking sexual desire are often misstreated and we lack certain normalization, especially for women, as nobody will get mad at unmarried/greysexual/asexual men.

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5 hours ago, Bakir said:

Sexual desire, as sexual orientation, is a continuum from positive sexuality to complete asexuality.

I still can't make sense of what you're trying to say.... 

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