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In the Name of God بسم الله
strength=Abbas

Friendship with an atheist

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Salaam

I have an atheist friend n we r so close n we do really like each other. Apart from the fact that I have to be careful about my religion n beliefs  , I want to know if it's haram in Islam that a Muslim would be friend with an atheist .

Thanks

Edited by strength=Abbas

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22 minutes ago, Bakir said:

It's not necessarily problematic, because in the end, what really matters is your standpoint in many aspects of life (and not so much the cause or reasoning which is more linked to your faith and beliefs). You can be a good person for several reasons.

Conflict with atheism tends to be more of a social problem than an individual one. This means, it's common to see an atheist committed to a set of moral values he believes in. However, it is not possible to expect this from a society.

I am assuming your atheist friend is a good person, believes in certain moral human values, and just merely doesn't believe in doctrine per se. Take care anyway, friends do influence us and its important to be a bit critic of what they say.

Yea sure my friend is a good logical person ( n I know if he was logical enough , he would find God ). N yeah . I'm all careful n actually I prefer not to talk about our beliefs! Personality matters to me n I think he's got a good one ( actually better than other guys that I know )

Thank u , Bakir

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You can't obey them:

O Prophet, fear Allah and do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. Qur'an 33:1

Nor you can take him as friend if he effect your imaan:

O you who have believed, do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do you wish to give Allah against yourselves a clear case? 4:144

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2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

You can't obey them:

O Prophet, fear Allah and do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. Qur'an 33:1

Nor you can take him as friend if he effect your imaan:

O you who have believed, do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do you wish to give Allah against yourselves a clear case? 4:144

Thank u so much

What does "obey" exactly mean? Like in everything , I'm not allowed to agree with him n do what he wants?

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Guest Enquire

If you are a sister, friendship with him isn't permissible in the way the OP seems to imply. If not, Sistani has said you may treat them with dignity, honour, help them in their needs, so long as they do not make you go against your religion or try to misguide you. They are your fellow human beings, you share humanity with them. 

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19 hours ago, strength=Abbas said:

Salaam

I have an atheist friend n we r so close n we do really like each other. Apart from the fact that I have to be careful about my religion n beliefs  , I want to know if it's haram in Islam that a Muslim would be friend with an atheist .

 Thanks

dunno if it's haram or not but based on the spirit of Islam I imagine it would be extremely detestable to consider one who rejects God as a "friend".

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Why don't we find a friendship with an atheist as an opportunity to ignite faith in them?

Its funny how we find atheists as a threat to our faith. When they should find it a threat to their non-belief. 

Unless you have a problem with weak-belief, then you should strengthen your faith in Allah and Islam regardless of a atheist friend or not. Because that means any incident can shake your belief.

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

Why don't we find a friendship with an atheist as an opportunity to ignite faith in them?

 Its funny how we find atheists as a threat to our faith. When they should find it a threat to their non-belief. 

 Unless you have a problem with weak-belief, then you should strengthen your faith in Allah and Islam regardless of a atheist friend or not. Because that means any incident can shake your belief.

Definition of friend: a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations.
 
Now please explain to me why a Muslim would have affection for an individual who opposes every fibre of the Muslim's being?
Can you have affection for truth and falsehood?
Can you have affection for justice and injustice?
Can you have affection for Allah and enemies of Allah?
 
Being an acquaintance, respectable/helpful member of society, or an inviter to truth is one thing.
Being "friends" is another.

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:49 PM, strength=Abbas said:

Salaam

I have an atheist friend n we r so close n we do really like each other. Apart from the fact that I have to be careful about my religion n beliefs  , I want to know if it's haram in Islam that a Muslim would be friend with an atheist .

Thanks

Walaykum as Salam, 

it is makrooh to have non-religious, non-Muslim friends because they can influence weak people in bad ways. The Holy Qur'an is very clear on that matter, stating that they won’t be ever pleased with you, until you won’t accept their belief. Atheism is the worst form of kufr, and therefore you should limit your contacts with that person to the point of showing them the right path in life, if they won’t accept, leave them to be and cut your contacts with such person. Try to surround yourself with religious sisters, it will only benefit you. 

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30 minutes ago, dragonxx said:
Definition of friend: a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations.
 
Now please explain to me why a Muslim would have affection for an individual who opposes every fibre of the Muslim's being?
Can you have affection for truth and falsehood?
Can you have affection for justice and injustice?
Can you have affection for Allah and enemies of Allah?
 
Being an acquaintance, respectable/helpful member of society, or an inviter to truth is one thing.
Being "friends" is another.
 

Why not? 

You're friends with someone because of his humanity and personality. More over, if he is an atheist, its his problem in judgement day not your problem. To add, being his friend, may help you realize why he became an atheist in the first place, and you may rectify his beliefs.

If everyone ignored atheists or non-believers. Is that a humane Muslim manner? Or what do you think, lonely atheists will sit in the dark corner at night and become Muslim to "fit in the crowd"?

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34 minutes ago, dragonxx said:
Now please explain to me why a Muslim would have affection for an individual who opposes every fibre of the Muslim's being?
Can you have affection for truth and falsehood?
Can you have affection for justice and injustice?
Can you have affection for Allah and enemies of Allah

 Meaning we can’t befriend anyone who is not a practicing Shia Muslim? 

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4 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

 Meaning we can’t befriend anyone who is not a practicing Shia Muslim? 

You can’t because, for example Christians and Jews are najis, and possibly even Pak, according to Ayatollah Sistani (may Allah prolong his life) alone. There are even stricter rulings by other maraji’. 

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3 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

You can’t because, for example Christians and Jews are najis, and possibly even Pak, according to Ayatollah Sistani (may Allah prolong his life) alone. There are even stricter rulings by other maraji’. 

Oh. You're understanding of religion is a bit shaky shaky my friend. 

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21 minutes ago, BowTie said:

Oh. You're understanding of religion is a bit shaky shaky my friend. 

*Your, not you’re. Secondly, my understanding of fiqh related issues is always based upon the teachings of A’immah and the fatwas of maraji’. I don’t interpret religion at all the way I see it, because I’m not qualified to do so. If you disagree with Grand Ayatollah Sistani, because I clearly pointed out that it is his ruling (and other maraji’ ruled similarly on this matter), you’re more than welcome to contact his office and raise your concerns. I realised so far that in fact it is you who keeps passing rulings on things without referring to the books of fiqh at all, and that’s not how it works in Usuli Twelver Islam. 

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21 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

*Your, not you’re. Secondly, my understanding of fiqh related issues is always based upon the teachings of A’immah and the fatwas of maraji’. I don’t interpret religion at all the way I see it, because I’m not qualified to do so. If you disagree with Grand Ayatollah Sistani, because I clearly pointed out that it is his ruling (and other maraji’ ruled similarly on this matter), you’re more than welcome to contact his office and raise your concerns. I realised so far that in fact it is you who keeps passing rulings on things without referring to the books of fiqh at all, and that’s not how it works in Usuli Twelver Islam. 

Why do you suppose everyone follows Sayed Sistani? I don't. And my Marja' doesn't claim so.

Second, even if they are considered najis. What stops you from being friends? I don't understand you're logic pal

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2 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

You can’t because, for example Christians and Jews are najis, and possibly even Pak, according to Ayatollah Sistani (may Allah prolong his life) alone. There are even stricter rulings by other maraji’. 

Question: Is it permissible for a Muslim to have a non-Muslim friend?

Answer: A Muslim is allowed to take non-Muslims for acquaintances and friends, to be sincere towards them and they be sincere towards him, to help one another in fulfilling the needs of this life.
 

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On 4/24/2019 at 2:04 PM, strength=Abbas said:

Thank u so much

What does "obey" exactly mean? Like in everything , I'm not allowed to agree with him n do what he wants?

and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. Qur'an 5:48

Obeying in anything that goes against the Qur'an and Sunnah.

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On 4/25/2019 at 4:07 PM, BowTie said:

To add, being his friend, may help you realize why he became an atheist in the first place, and you may rectify his beliefs.

 If everyone ignored atheists or non-believers. Is that a humane Muslim manner?

On 4/25/2019 at 3:34 PM, dragonxx said:
Being an acquaintance, respectable/helpful member of society, or an inviter to truth is one thing.
Being "friends" is another.

Clearly I never said anything about ignoring them or treating them as lesser humans. I am merely making a distinction of what "friend" entails, and the foolishness one invites into his/her life when they have such a person as a "friend". I provided the definition above so that we could all be on the same page too. Oh well.

On 4/25/2019 at 4:09 PM, 2Timeless said:

 Meaning we can’t befriend anyone who is not a practicing Shia Muslim? 

Not being practicing vs. openly stating God doesn't exist are entirely different. One of my closest friends is a Christian. So yeah that's definitely not what I meant.

But to re-iterate, how can you have affection and show love to an atheist when they are openly denying Allah? Loving Allah and loving he who hates Allah makes no sense at all. It's like loving Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام)) and loving the people who attacked him. Can't have it both ways.

On 4/25/2019 at 4:14 PM, OrthodoxTruth said:

for example Christians and Jews are najis

not sure about Sistani but my marjaa as far as I know certainly does not agree. You can marry them in temporary marriage even in Sistani's rulings I believe so perhaps you misunderstood Sistani about najasa.

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41 minutes ago, Guest Itsme said:

Question: Is it permissible for a Muslim to have a non-Muslim friend?

Answer: A Muslim is allowed to take non-Muslims for acquaintances and friends, to be sincere towards them and they be sincere towards him, to help one another in fulfilling the needs of this life.
 

No way someone has asked a jurisprudential question like that :hahaha:

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On 4/26/2019 at 6:01 AM, Abu Nur said:

Which is worse, setting partners with God while believe in God or disbelieve in God while mocking him. 

I see your point logically but the reason why I thought it was the other way was because:

- shirk is the worst sin

- at least an atheist is not associating partners with God “lailaha” though is considered a kafir if knowingly rejects God

But to your statement:

-not sure all atheists “mock” God 

-the polytheist could be intentionally setting partners with God with the intention to “mock” Him while knowing he is one (kufr)

Do correct me if I’m wrong

Wsalam

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On 4/25/2019 at 11:40 PM, BowTie said:

Why don't we find a friendship with an atheist as an opportunity to ignite faith in them?

Its funny how we find atheists as a threat to our faith. When they should find it a threat to their non-belief. 

Unless you have a problem with weak-belief, then you should strengthen your faith in Allah and Islam regardless of a atheist friend or not. Because that means any incident can shake your belief.

The exact question of mine !

Imagine an atheist guy who has no religious friends ! Isn't this better that such person has at least one religious friend ?! I mean I can be his friend n I might be kinda helpful n talk about God  n maybe make him wonder if he s wrong n there really might be a God !

I mean which one is better ? An atheist surrounded by non religious persons or an atheist who has one religious person among his "real" friends ?

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39 minutes ago, strength=Abbas said:

Imagine an atheist guy who has no religious friends ! Isn't this better that such person has at least one religious friend ?!

I agree with you but that one friend for the atheist guy should be a Muslim guy, not a Muslim women.

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

I agree with you but that one friend for the atheist guy should be a Muslim guy, not a Muslim women.

N what's the difference ?!

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6 hours ago, strength=Abbas said:

N what's the difference ?!

According to the jurists friendship between non mahrams, especially the kind of friendship, I.e. close one, that is required to affect someones faith is not allowed.

And if the opinions of islamically learnt scholars is not enough to convince you, then heres the view of non Muslims on the topic:

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6 hours ago, IbnSina said:

According to the jurists friendship between non mahrams, especially the kind of friendship, I.e. close one, that is required to affect someones faith is not allowed.

And if the opinions of islamically learnt scholars is not enough to convince you, then heres the view of non Muslims on the topic:

Well I'm all careful. Emotion doesn't affect me lol 

N Islam rules r enough , western ppl 's words r not necessary (they r just humans like us !)

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2 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Thats good but as the video showed, even if the women does not develop feelings the man might still do so.

Then he'd better learn how to control his feelings!

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I also recently made friends with an atheist, she would tell me that she hated catholic people and would rather be friends with Muslims instead of them. One time we were even talking about the New Zealand shooting and was even criticising the media who didn’t label the killer as a terrorist. 

So yeah it really depends on your levels of faith. Islam doesn’t forbid us to be friends with non Muslims. 

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Lol it seems people here either don't know what being a "friend" entails, or they are seriously cool in investing themselves into an individual who is openly against the God which they worship.

But I mean it's ok I suppose, afterall food is good with Muwaiya (l.a) while prayer is good with Ali ibn Abi Talib ((عليه السلام)).

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The main problem in this discussion is that you guys seem to compare atheism with lack of morals or beliefs or principles or integrity, or all of them. By thr same rule of thumb, Shias should be decent people, and honestly, I only respect a few from all the ones I've known in my life.

Religious identity, nowaday, means almost nothing when it comes to judging a person as a valuable decent human being and good friend.

To lose a friend merely because he identifies as an atheist is one of the greatest mistakes one could do, to be honest. I did so, I lost good friends who could still and should still be part of my life, because I thought that would be the best choice islamically speaking. I left that fundamentalist stubborness in the past because it brings nothing but stupidity and unhappiness to your life, and if it at least made any sense, spiritually speaking, I wouldn't regret it. But it's worth nothing. If you have got a good friend, and that friend is a good person and brings good things to your life, keep it close. No need to talk or discuss about the Hereafter and if God exists or not. Mostly because these questions, if you seriously think about them, mean nothing. What really matters is who is God, what are His names. It's in His names where principles and morality matter, and where we can actually find things in common with atheists who, not believing in God, may believe in His names.

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On 5/3/2019 at 9:20 PM, strength=Abbas said:

Then he'd better learn how to control his feelings!

don’t blame a man for being a man, thats how God created us. If it wasnt for those "feelings" humanity would not survive.

Have you heard the story of the frog and the scorpion?

If it happens you will only have yourself to blame.

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