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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ruqaya101

[Closed/Review]Being Muslim and Gay

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11 hours ago, Guest Questione said:

One thing that confuses me is what stance Islam takes. 

1. Does Allah create people without them having any desire and no fair way to exercise their desires I.e gay people?

2. Is being gay heavily influenced by nurture and also choice and exposure?

 

People in the past would have overwhelmingly sided with 2. Now that we are all becoming more liberalised and uniting with the left, many now go with 1, like the Christians have done. Given Shia Islam allows sex changes (I.e. Allah can create people in the wrong bodies for them) what is to say he can't create people without any desire for the opposite sex?

(91:7~10) And the Nafs and He Who proportioned it,
And He inspired it (Nafs) its wickedness and its righteousness.
Indeed, he succeeds who purifies it (Nafs) And indeed, he fails who buries it (Nafs).

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20 hours ago, Guest Zayn said:

Assalamualaikum, everyone. 
to cut a very long story very short: I was born in a traditional Pakistani Shia Muslim household in Europe and I'm 23 years old atm. My parents are pretty conservative and they've always ''forced'' religion on to me and my younger brothers. As a kid/teenager, I simply rolled with it because I knew I'd simply ''go to hell'' if I did not obey. That's never really been a problem except for the fact that they NEVER gave us reasons why we should believe in one God, why we should fast, why the Qur'an could only be from God and so on... Over the years, I've noticed that I've kind of pushed religion off to the side. It's not like I've turned into an atheist/agnostic; I actually do believe in the existence of a higher being (aka Allah).
I hope you guys get the picture...

Ever since I've turned 21/22, I've been having alot of doubts about my sexual orientation. I think I've always known that I was a bit different than most kids but I'd just deny those feelings because living a ''gay lifestyle'' (or bi, in my case) just doesn't go hand-in-hand with Islam. And it's not about being flamboyant or playing the act of a rebellion - it's about having attraction to men, developing genuine feelings and all that. I've never crossed any lines, thankfully; however, I feel like I'm suffocating. I don't know if anyone on this forum could possibly imagine WHAT I'm going through right this very moment unless you're in the same boat as well. I don't know who to turn to. I don't know if I should tell my parents or my brothers? I don't even know what to say to them. 


At the same time I don't feel like abandoning Islam; I am now trying to be more consistent with my prayers, I am try to do as much as I can. I'm obviously far, far from perfect when it comes to my duties as a Muslim and I hope God has mercy on me.  I'm striving towards improvement now, trying to make Islam and God a bigger priority in my life but I'm failing regularly. 


And I do know about Prophet Lut's (عليه السلام) story and what happened to the men of the nation he was sent to. I know how big of a crime it is considered to be. At the same time, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with myself? I can't just pray away those feelings, can I? 
And btw I'm not trolling anyone, I'm genuinely lost and confused. 
Replies/advice is highly appreciated. 
Jazakallah. 

 

Salaam,

I hope you are well. From reading your post it is probably more the feeling of "suffocation" that is pushing you down this path, rather than a genuine desire towards that certain sexual orientation. I have met a lot of people like this and it's more a byproduct of the wholesale rejection of a traditional upbringing. You need to find a balance which I appreciate is difficult. All I can say is slow down and prefer quality over quantity. I have found for some reason that some Muslims are very big on quantity and forcing religion on others, when they have the most fickle and sometimes most ignorant views.

I'm a revert who has had plenty of culture clashes and I am married into South Asian family who alhamdulilah treat me like a second son. However when it comes to Islam we do not meet eye to eye on some things. For me it's more about understanding (even hadith says that a person's prayers who prays with understanding is worth more than those that do not, so do the math) and then practising IN THAT ORDER. Their understanding did lead me to almost reject Islam outright so I can definately empathise with you in that sense. A lot of practising at times is not based upon understanding hence why people reach weird opinions on things.. I mean basic stuff like differences between Islam and Iman or Madhabs.

You just have to make sure you don't swing from one subculture to another subculture and just drift for the sake of it. I believe freedom of thought is a good thing and the narrations of Imam Ali will tell you, that believing with freedom and complete understanding the pinnicale of belief (ma'rifah). Believing because someone is beating you with a stick is a very low level to be and no one should ever strive for this level of faith. Unfortunately some people have been brought up in this manner and it is probably their own cultural problems that are now being projected onto you.

Start with the basics and understand them well everyone is tested and will be rewarded.

 

Edited by ali47

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12 hours ago, Guest Questione said:

One thing that confuses me is what stance Islam takes. 

1. Does Allah create people without them having any desire and no fair way to exercise their desires I.e gay people?

2. Is being gay heavily influenced by nurture and also choice and exposure?

 

People in the past would have overwhelmingly sided with 2. Now that we are all becoming more liberalised and uniting with the left, many now go with 1, like the Christians have done. Given Shia Islam allows sex changes (I.e. Allah can create people in the wrong bodies for them) what is to say he can't create people without any desire for the opposite sex?

I think we all know the stance that Islam takes on this with a few minor exceptions based on context.

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23 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Apparently Imam Khameini issued a fatwa on it, even Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه)

Indeed, it was after meeting Maryam Molkara that the late Imam Khomeini issued a fatwa. Whether or not he would have done so by his own accord later down the line without that meeting I don't know. 

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سلام

From the Qur'an, we learn that homosexuality emerged at the time of Lut. Before the time of the people of Lut, no other people had committed such abomination. 

We learn, according to a n authentic narration, that it appeared due to Shaitan's direct involvement. A group of boys were sitting while Shaitan shape-shifted to look like a woman. She joined them and excited them. Once the boys were sexually aroused and intoxicated by their arousal, Shaitan leaves and the boys continue among themselves. This is the birth of homosexuality!

Their activity, like all activities, must have changed the state of their bodies and minds, which in turn may have affected the genetic material that they passed on. 

So, it's possible that though homosexuality started purely due to sinful activities, it may have continued partially due to "natural" reasons. Some people may be born naturally inclined towards homosexuality, which makes it harder for them to stay away from such sinfulness. 

This being the case, it's important to not assume all homosexuals are so purely because of their choices. Biological and physiological factors may be at play. This should affect how we behave towards them. We should be more empathetic though not accepting of their sins. Homosexuality is never okay like all other sins. 

However, let's not forget that drinking wine and lying and gossiping are considered the worst of sins, and yet we have friends and family members who may very casually and regularly commit such sins, and we do not mistreat them. So, we ought not to mistreat homosexuals but rather pray for their healing and return. 

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14 hours ago, Guest theObserver said:

I have quoted this hadith a billion times 

Imam Jaffar Sadiq said "the sins you do effects SEVEN generations after you"

homosexuality is a result of forefathers sins which caused deformities to the gene-pool 

That Hadith is meant to be taken figuratively so one could avoid sinning. The Qur'an states that no person bears the sins of another.

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1 minute ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

That Hadith is meant to be taken figuratively so one could avoid sinning. The Qur'an states that no person bears the sins of another.

Sins and effects are not the same thing. A child certainly does bear the burden of an abusive parent, though the child is blameless. 

Anyway, having a tendency toward homosexuality is not a sin. It is only a sin to have intimate relations outside of marriage. 

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Guest Questione
2 minutes ago, notme said:

Anyway, having a tendency toward homosexuality is not a sin. It is only a sin to have intimate relations outside of marriage. 

Do you believe Allah created people with inclination to the same Gender, and then at the same time, condemned them in the Qur'an for not going after the opposite gender who were more pure for them? 

Furthermore, those who have tendencies, should they be told that is how Allah made them, and should efforts to undergo therapy or something of this sort be regarded as barbaric? Should the advice they should be given is to remain celibate their entire lives?

Obviously, Islam considers it a far greater sin to have homosexual intercourse compared to heterosexual intercourse outside of marriage (assuming the parties are not married already). The punishments according to Islamic scholars are far harsher to put it mildly with the former. This isn't merely just having sex outside of marriage though that is condemned, and Islam appears to make clear distinction in condemning same sex relationships.

Obviously I am only interested in theory, we should treat everyone fairly and equally, whatever their identities. 

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Guest Questione
1 hour ago, SoRoUsH said:

From the Qur'an, we learn that homosexuality emerged at the time of Lut. Before the time of the people of Lut, no other people had committed such abomination. 

 

Well, what would you say to what appears to be a growing consensus among the scientific community that homosexuality in large part appears to be caused by nature? Before Lot, no-one with this predisposition tried to act on it, yet we had people acting on other predispositions ? 

 

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1 minute ago, Guest Questione said:

Do you believe Allah created people with inclination to the same Gender, and then at the same time, condemned them in the Qur'an for not going after the opposite gender who were more pure for them? 

Yes. 

And some people have an inherent tendency toward hotheadedness, some toward cowardice, some toward laziness, some toward greed. We all have our trials; nobody will be given a burden greater than they can bear. They're probably at least partly genetic and partially caused by environmental influences, but neither influence negates free will. 

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Guest Questione
1 hour ago, SoRoUsH said:

We learn, according to a n authentic narration, that it appeared due to Shaitan's direct involvement. A group of boys were sitting while Shaitan shape-shifted to look like a woman. She joined them and excited them. Once the boys were sexually aroused and intoxicated by their arousal, Shaitan leaves and the boys continue among themselves. This is the birth of homosexuality!

 

Brother, I would be careful about taking even singular Saheeh narrations. We have Hasan/Saheeh narrations telling us humanity descended from the children of heavenly Houris and Adam's children. We have narrations telling us the Earth rests on the back of a whale as another example. 

Why isn't Shaitan making anymore direct involvements? He seemed to be making quite the appearances back in the day, but seems to not be found in terms of direct appearances these days?

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Guest Questione
2 minutes ago, notme said:

Yes. 

And some people have an inherent tendency toward hotheadedness, some toward cowardice, some toward laziness, some toward greed. We all have our trials; nobody will be given a burden greater than they can bear. They're probably at least partly genetic and partially caused by environmental influences, but neither influence negates free will. 

Do you believe they then have the free-will to undergo therapy or overtime, 'correct' themselves and have heterosexual relationships? Why does Lot in the Qur'an tell those practising homosexuality that women are more pure for them, if Allah has made them having no desire for women and no chance to develop desire through mental work?

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