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In the Name of God بسم الله

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I came across this video and it sparked my interest and attention.

Is there something truly considered “scientific and uncontrollable sexual orientation”? Where’s the proof? 

What are your thoughts on this in general?

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Islam is silent on "being" gay. 

Sexual activity outside of marriage is prohibited. 

Therefore, whether homosexuality is biological or socio-cultural is irrelevant. Orientation does not dictate action.

The only question is whether Islamic marriage could be reinterpreted to include marriage between two men or two women. (I'm guessing it can't, but I'm no expert.)

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@Ruqaya101

Thank but no thanks personally I do not watch such debates so I won't click on the video. However I think being gay is a product of a social environment and culture of society we live in. No need to bring religion into it or ask what it says about it when it is clearly prohibited. 

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Guest FridayJoe

Is there something truly considered “scientific and uncontrollable sexual orientation”? Where’s the proof? 

This could very well be true, because each one of us have many urges, leanings, and inclinations, some of which are uncontrollable, as far as involuntarily self association goes.

Here’s the issue: If they ever become our conscious decision to act on those, then they become a crime. On the other hand, if we don’t have any control on actions meaning the action becomes involuntary, then it’s mental illness. 

In real world: acting on their gay-ish-ness is either the choice, which Islam calls a crime against self, society, and God - which is punishable in an Islamic court of an Islamic government OR it’s a mental illness which needs to be cured or addressed by the order of an Islamic judge through medical means and ideally at the expense of the Islamic government (again if it’s diagnosed as mental illness, the cure might be involuntary and enforced in order to safeguard others from a mentally ill individual).

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41 minutes ago, notme said:

Islam is silent on "being" gay. 

Sexual activity outside of marriage is prohibited. 

Therefore, whether homosexuality is biological or socio-cultural is irrelevant. Orientation does not dictate action.

The only question is whether Islamic marriage could be reinterpreted to include marriage between two men or two women. (I'm guessing it can't, but I'm no expert.)

Let's say a corrupt sheikh went ahead and married two people of the same sex, it would still be invalid in the eyes of God.  Even if the whole world 7 billion people all agreed with same sex marriage, in God's laws it is INVALID.

God hasten the appearance of Imam Mahdi.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

 

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I watched this a year ago and this Muslim lady made a very ignorant statement about that gay Muslim and why he chooses to be gay if he knows it's harram. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been ages since I last saw this video)

Regardless, these feelings are real, but no one should act on them.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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There is no halal way for people of the same sex to have an intimate relationship. A man and a woman can make mistakes and sin but they can get married and ask for forgiveness. Openly being gay and not repenting is an act of kuffar. It's like saying I don't read salat even though I know Allah has commanded me to. And I don't care and Islam should accept it. At that point I'm out of Islam.

Edited by Warilla

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2 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Which culture of society are you referring to??

its happened in Iraq and Pakistan. So I don’t think it’s a product of that.

These countries, especially Pakistan, are being influenced by western cultures. I think this leap can be attributed to social media and technology. Such negative elements that effect moral behaviour are slowly being  introduced into their culture. It is so easy to do so through technology nowadays, everybody seems to have a mobile phone and internet access. Thirty years ago people there were living lifestyles that predated twenty years but now they have caught up with the rest of us in the west. Some even influence us. I find some people from the east are a lot more into haram behavior than westerners who are actually embracing Islam. Yes its true that alcohol is slowly becoming the norm in Pakistan. To be honest most westerners find such people from the east strange, especially their perspectives of social class and preference for lighter skin. Westerners like slightly darker skins and love going to the beach. White people tell me they think they look ugly in colourful clothes but they admire my dark skin tone. Tanning creams are a big business in the west while skin whitening creams are popular in Pakistan. Sorry I'm being a bit out of topic here but I'm giving you an insight which is all related to this topic. You can imagine the future. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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1 hour ago, Murtaza1 said:

These countries, especially Pakistan, are being influenced by western cultures. I think this leap can be attributed to social media and technology. Such negative elements that effect moral behaviour are slowly being  introduced into their culture. It is so easy to do so through technology nowadays, everybody seems to have a mobile phone and internet access. Thirty years ago people there were living lifestyles that predated twenty years but now they have caught up with the rest of us in the west. Some even influence us. I find some people from the east are a lot more into haram behavior than westerners who are actually embracing Islam. Yes its true that alcohol is slowly becoming the norm in Pakistan. To be honest most westerners find such people from the east strange, especially their perspectives of social class and preference for lighter skin. Westerners like slightly darker skins and love going to the beach. White people tell me they think they look ugly in colourful clothes but they admire my dark skin tone. Tanning creams are a big business in the west while skin whitening creams are popular in Pakistan. Sorry I'm being a bit out of topic here but I'm giving you an insight which is all related to this topic. You can imagine the future. 

There have always been people with homosexual urges in extremely conservative societies devoid of Western influence.  There is no conclusive evidence to suggest it is all or even primarily social conditioning.  I grew up in an extremely conservative environment in Pakistan and I knew young kids with homosexual tendencies who were socially conditioned to be totally averse to such tendencies. 

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Islam only has a problem with people who commit homosexual acts. Being attracted to men might very well be a test for some Muslims. I have been told that there are plenty of Muslim men who are gay (attracted to men) but have married women and went on with their life without acting on their desires.

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44 minutes ago, King said:

There have always been people with homosexual urges in extremely conservative societies devoid of Western influence.  There is no conclusive evidence to suggest it is all or even primarily social conditioning.  I grew up in an extremely conservative environment in Pakistan and I knew young kids with homosexual tendencies who were socially conditioned to be totally averse to such tendencies. 

Of course I have seen that myself in 1991 in Pakistan both wealthy and poor regions of Karachi. They are a product of their own society and they do not represent Islam in this aspect. However the fact that people are being conditioned further through social media cannot be denied just compare the Pakistan of thirty years ago with today. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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35 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Islam only has a problem with people who commit homosexual acts. Being attracted to men might very well be a test for some Muslims. I have been told that there are plenty of Muslim men who are gay (attracted to men) but have married women and went on with their life without acting on their desires.

Of course there are gaylord Muslims out there, there is no denying in that but they are a product of their society 

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3 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Gaylord is an insult. this is a serious discussion. don’t bring your personal feelings into it.

I see you were quick to reach for the dictionary. That's exactly what it says in there. Although we use it as a bit of a joke nowadays lol

Edited by Murtaza1

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5 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

I came across this video and it sparked my interest and attention.

What are your thoughts on this in general?

Check the answer with your marja’. I think it’s obvious to us. The only close relationship allowed in Islam for non-mahram people is marriage. Gays can’t marry islamically, therefore they have to remain single forever, and pray for change and forgiveness as much as they can. Engaging in major sins closed the door to Paradise altogether: https://www.al-Islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-Sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi

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6 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

I see you were quick to reach for the dictionary. That's exactly what it says in there. Although we use it as a bit of a joke nowadays lol

what dictionary brother? when I was in school this used to be used as an insult. it is ur choice to say it, but in a serious discussion avoid it. it eclipses ur whole argument.

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4 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

what dictionary brother? when I was in school this used to be used as an insult. it is ur choice to say it, but in a serious discussion avoid it. it eclipses ur whole argument.

Online dictionary. We also used to use the word gaylord in a discriminatory context thirty years ago in school but society has moved on now. It is openly acceptable for even comedians on British television to use the word Gaylord. I'm not being off topic but this just reflects the power of mass media to change how such a word is perceived by people. It's a product of society not any deep philosophy or religion. Religion rejects it. 

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10 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

Online dictionary. We also used to use the word gaylord in a discriminatory context thirty years ago in school but society has moved on now. It is openly acceptable for even comedians on British television to use the word Gaylord. I'm not being off topic but this just reflects the power of mass media to change how such a word is perceived by people. It's a product of society not any deep philosophy or religion. Religion rejects it. 

Yes ok jerry seinfeld, this is neither TV or a comedy show. this is a place where we are trying to discuss issues. 

And no. it is not ONLY a product of society. There is a whole field of psychology that studies it. There’s also scientific evidence that shows a percentage of people choose to be gay because of hormonal imbalances. Fish is filled with estrogen nowadays, imagine what this increased intake of estrogen does to a man.

do some more research.

Edited by Ibn Al-Shahid

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6 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Yes ok jerry seinfeld, this is neither TV or a comedy show. this is a place where we are trying to discuss issues. 

And no. it is not ONLY a product of society. There is a whole field of psychology that studies it. There’s also scientific evidence that shows a percentage of people choose to be gay because of hormonal imbalances. Fish is filled with estrogen nowadays, imagine what this increased intake of estrogen does to a man.

do some more research.

If you have some interrested links about such research I would be very interrested.

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