Polygamy

[Ali bin Hussein]

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

[2Timeless]

I don’t think its dying, many people cheat on their first wives and keep secret second wives. Also, western people are becoming more open to polygamy and that's bound to affect Muslims' practice of polygamy because alot of people are probably held back by societal views towards polygamous relationships. 

[Ali bin Hussein]

24 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

I don’t think its dying, many people cheat on their first wives and keep secret second wives. Also, western people are becoming more open to polygamy and that's bound to affect Muslims' practice of polygamy because alot of people are probably held back by societal views towards polygamous relationships. 

What do you mean by cheat. As in they have a haram relationship outside marriage ?

[2Timeless]

5 minutes ago, Warilla said:

What do you mean by cheat. As in they have a haram relationship outside marriage ?

It's not haram per se, since it's done under the guise of a nikah/mutah. By cheat I mean go behind their first wife's back when there is a clear understanding that the wife entered the relationship in belief that he would remain faithful and monogamous. Bottom line is, lying is haram. Why would a man be exempt of that sin just because he does it to marry a second woman? 

Anyway, this is besides the point of your thread.

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

3 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

[BowTie]

3 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

Are you married to 1 in the first place?

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

4 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

I think in our times, especially in the west, marrying a second wife would be problematic. 

If you can get the first wife's permission, then go for it.

But if the first wife doesn't give you permission, although you can still marry a second wife, obviously there is a high chance that the first marriage will end in shambles.  

[OrthodoxTruth]

Salam,

I would like to only kindly remind all of you here that we always approach every subject from the Islamic perspective, not our own. First of all, save for the infallibles (Prophets, Imams), barely anyone from the non-infallible men had/has more than one wife. How many of our ulama do? How many of the great marjaʿ? Ayatollahs al-Khoei, Khomeini, Sistani, Khamenei, the Shirazi family, and others - may Allah be pleased with them all, nearly uniformly each had/have one wife. Besides, the verse on polygamy has to be understood within the context it was revealed. The tafsir is clear that it was revealed at the time when constant warfare and diseases took toll among the early Muslim community, and in order for women not to turn to formication, like in pagan times, and for widowed and not children to have full rights as per sharia law, unlike in pagan times, the surviving men were allowed to marry more than one wife. It was to prevent injustice in the society, not for the pleasure of men who just felt bored with their wife... The Qur'an is very clear on the matter; one has to provide financially AND emotionally equally for all the wives, and if he can’t do so, then he shouldn’t even think about more than one in this time and age. Nonetheless, do you brothers pray daily always on time? Perfectly conduct yourself in public and private sphere? Do you have Islamic knowledge on our theology? Is your current wife pleased with your everyday behaviour? Let’s start with that before thinking about more than one wife. Allahu Alam. 

[Hassan-]

1 hour ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

The Qur'an is very clear on the matter; one has to provide financially AND emotionally equally for all the wives, and if he can’t do so, then he shouldn’t even think about more than one in this time and age.

In fiqh it’s not obligatory to support your wives equally in finance and emotion.

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

1 hour ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

The Qur'an is very clear on the matter; one has to provide financially AND emotionally equally for all the wives, and if he can’t do so, then he shouldn’t even think about more than one in this time and age. 

The Qur'an in 4:3 actually refers to doing justice, not necessarily being literally "equal".

[Islandsandmirrors]

The problem with men getting second wives is that usually haram is committed prior, with the second wife before marrying, and it’s kept in secret. 

I don’t think Muslim men would do multiple wives justice. They wouldn’t treat their wives all fairly with as much affection and care as the other. 

The only group who only seem to treat their wives well are Mormon Fundamentalists. Nothing is kept secret between them. And they seem surprisingly accepting and happy. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Islandsandmirrors

[ali_fatheroforphans]

7 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

Nah I believe in the concept of having a soul-mate or the 'one'. Imagine if it was the other way around. If I really liked a woman and thought of her as the 'one', I would rather die than see her with another guy. Therefore, I will never ever marry a second wife. I'd rather give everything to my first.

[OrthodoxTruth]

2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

In fiqh it’s not obligatory to support your wives equally in finance and emotion.

 

2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

The Qur'an in 4:3 actually refers to doing justice, not necessarily being literally "equal".

In my personal understanding, being just means treating all the wives equally, how can one be just when one wife gets less emotional and financial output of her husband than the other wife? That’s injustice right there. 

A translation by Yusuf Ali is shown below:

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3

 

[starlight]

1 minute ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

In my personal understanding, being just means treating all the wives equally, how can one be just when one wife gets less emotional and financial output of her husband than the other wife? That’s injustice right there. 

There is a difference between justice and equality. brother @Hassan- had translated a very nice video of an Ayatullah explaining the difference. Hopefully he will be able to post it here sometime. 

[Guest AbdulKarim_atx]

Bismillah 

May Allah shower his blessings in Muhammad and his household 

Might  be time to do a topic thread on what Allah makes halal no person can make haraam and what Allah has made not permissible no person can make permissible. I always see people trying to make mutah and polygyny haraam.  Anyone who try’s to change what’s halal to haraam or vice versa will have to answer to Allah for their ignorance and arrogance about his laws. I have even seen one thread in which someone says they want to be the only wife for their husband in Jannah and they don’t want their husband to have other wives in Jannah.  Allah has given the Muslim male certain rites and bounties for certain roles that no one can take away.  

Do some people believe they know better than Allah about why he has made things permissible and some things not. No ones knowledge is equal to or greater than Allahs knowledge not even any of our Loved Prophets and holy Imams. The knowledge and laws they did receive came from Allah who is the most wise. You can’t disagree with some versus of Qur'an and not accept some versus because you have a personal dislike or lack of understanding of the Law. The laws and rules are not just for Muhammad’s time because the Qur'an is universal and divine command so it means rules and laws are applicable through out the entire duration of the Earth’s existence all the way up to the last day.  

It is an unbeliever trait to change Allahs laws and rules that are set in the Qur'an. Mutah was outlawed by the self appointed caliphs but it was reinstated by Ali AS the the first Imam and rightful commander and chief of the believers. Polygyny was legal during Muhammad time and it’s legal now. Who’s going to dispute with Allah???  Who are you to dispute with Allah about what he has made permissible and not permissible? Can you produce a book like that of the Qur'an or better? Ask Allah to forgive us our sins of Arrogance, our Sins of ignorance and our sins of Negligence. 

[Hassan-]

1 hour ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

 

In my personal understanding, being just means treating all the wives equally, how can one be just when one wife gets less emotional and financial output of her husband than the other wife? That’s injustice right there. 

A translation by Yusuf Ali is shown below:

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3

 

Salam, take a look at this video.

 

[Ruqaya101]

It’s not a dying sunnah, I can name 100 people that I know who have second wives... no joke

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

6 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

 

In my personal understanding, being just means treating all the wives equally

Allow me to stop you right there. Interpreting should not be derived from your personal understanding.

Watch from around 8:30, here Sayid Raza Rizvi talks about the difference between Adalat (justice) and Insaf (equity, the word is derived from the same word as nisf, or half).

I think your understanding seems closer to Insaf than Adalat.

 

[Nevsevug]

Marriage is pretty hard as is, why would I want to bring a whole other person into the equation 

[notme]

I'm already married, but if my husband wanted and felt that he could support a second wife, I'd deal with it. (I'd probably feel a little hurt at first.) I'd want to know and talk freely with the other wife, so we can help ensure equitable conditions. Justice is important. 

There's no way I'd agree to be a second wife without the first wife's consent, given directly to me by her. 

In theory though, no problem. 

[Maryaam]

19 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salaam would any here consider getting/being a second wife. As it seems to be a dying sunnah.

Polygamy is not for me; I would not consider it.  

 

I require a full time, devoted husband and my children deserve a full time, devoted father.  Family stability is the first priority in raising emotionally healthy, confident children.

 

I have seen, first hand, polygamist families in the east (as a young teen) and what I saw was family confusion, turmoil and disconnect. Some of my friends hardly ever saw their father and when he came to visit, he was treated with the utmost respect but there was definitely no sense of intimate familiarity or connection.  There was no paternal confidant or a male role model in any sense for most of the kids.  Usually the father chose one or two children that he favoured and gave a lot more attention, but the rest were given a cursory nod.

 

In any case, there is no social need for polygamy with today's services and supports.  It is permissible and it is available if required (lack of males from a devastating war maybe?), but unless there is a huge discrepancy in the numbers of women to men (which there isn’t - actually in some areas of the world there is a huge lack of marriageable women due to gender selective abortion), it is not socially just that some men have several wives (usually due to financial wealth) while some men, who are born into less, would have access to none.  

Edited April 19, 2019 by Maryaam

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

Ngl the idea's appealed to me ever since I was a lad. I've nothing to be ashamed about disclosing this want. Though easier said than done, imagine having different offspring from different backgrounds, tres cool.

Anyway it has to be done right and justly.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

I find people who oppose polygamy are usually doing it because of their ego. listen to how they argue and it always has the word “me” involved. marriage is not only about “love”.

[2Timeless]

32 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I find people who oppose polygamy are usually doing it because of their ego. listen to how they argue and it always has the word “me” involved. marriage is not only about “love”.

And what about the man who wants his desires to be met 24/7 by two or more women fighting over his attention? Quite the ego boost I imagine. This wouldn't have been the case in the Prophet's time, as there was a real need for it, but in today's age, whether you're a single mother or a widow, or never been married before, the governments usually support you if you don’t support yourself, as was mentioned in a previous post, and you don’t need a man to rely on. So, really, unless theres a very exceptional situation, most times its men looking for an ego boost.

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

...It could be a useful way to prevent abuse. I'd imagine it could be useful in rural or poor areas. The women can team up and become as powerful as the man (preventing abuse). The women can team up to educate themselves. The women can team up to take care of the kids  

[Muslim Queen]

1 hour ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I find people who oppose polygamy are usually doing it because of their ego. listen to how they argue and it always has the word “me” involved. marriage is not only about “love”.

It’s funny how you mention the woman’s “ego”.  

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

12 minutes ago, Muslim Queen said:

It’s funny how you mention the woman’s “ego”.  

51 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

This wouldn't have been the case in the Prophet's time, as there was a real need for it, but in today's age, whether you're a single mother or a widow, or never been married before, the governments usually support you if you don’t support yourself,

I know a couple of brothers back home who married widows and single mothers as second wives to please God, the government wasn't supporting them very well. quiet the ego boost right? you are opposing polygamy while there is a need for it. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Ibn Al-Shahid

[2Timeless]

5 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I know a couple of brothers back home who married widows and single mothers as second wives to please God, the government wasn't supporting them very well. quiet the ego boost right? you are opposing polygamy while there is a need for it. 

If those women truly and honestly needed that marriage to survive or improve their quality of life, and the first wife was fine with it, then that's good, as I said, there are exceptions. But more often than not, men use this excuse to justify their need to inflate their ego through a second secret marriage. The fact is, men have fragile egos and they need more to enforce their masculinity and feel better about themselves, unfortunately women fall prey to this.

[Tabib]

Guys and gals. 

Just signed up the chat,

Great to see so much activity here.

Just a thought, 

For the lady who decided that having more than one wife is not applicable to our times,

I just believe ,why don’t we start deciding on everything that does not please our lfe styles, as Not for our times.....

I nay be ignorant but did most of our Imams wives were widows ..

How about turning juma prayers into sunday prayers? Cause it definitely suits our times..specially in western hemisphere.

Come on guys , if you don't like something , does not change the halas and harams.

Just a thought.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

12 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

If those women truly and honestly needed that marriage to survive or improve their quality of life, and the first wife was fine with it, then that's good, as I said, there are exceptions. But more often than not, men use this excuse to justify their need to inflate their ego through a second secret marriage. The fact is, men have fragile egos and they need more to enforce their masculinity and feel better about themselves, unfortunately women fall prey to this.

or they use this excuse because their first wife is not fulfilling her duty as a wife, which is very common nowadays, just look at the Muslim divorce numbers. this argument is very silly. polygamy, regardless of the reason, has a place in society and the removal of it is out of emotion not logic.

[2Timeless]

1 minute ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

they use this excuse because their first wife is not fulfilling her duty as a wife,

Lame baseless excuses that are probably a complete lie with no backing, only used to justify cheating on the first wife and make it seem somehow more moral.

[Guest TallWhiteMama]

All I know from this thread is that our Muslim ladies, not all but significant majority are more wiser than the Law Maker Himself (naudhuBillah) when it comes to Mutah and Polygyne. 

[starlight]

3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

whether you're a single mother or a widow, or never been married before, the governments usually support you if you don’t support yourself, as was mentioned in a previous post, and you don’t need a man to rely on

So you think financial support is the only need of a single woman? She doesn't need emotional support? Or help with raising her children if she has any? Or companionship? 

[Edit] I have been reading your posts, in this thread and others and it makes me wonder what makes you so think so negatively of men.The world isn't such a bad place. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by starlight

[Maryaam]

2 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I know a couple of brothers back home who married widows and single mothers as second wives to please God, the government wasn't supporting them very well. quiet the ego boost right? you are opposing polygamy while there is a need for it. 

Ummm....  exactly how many "second" wives did he have? 

As a teen, I saw a number of new subsequent (2 and more) wives and they were never a single mom, don't know if they were widows - guess it is possible, but subsequent wives were always much younger and attractive.... to please God I guess.....  

Great rhetoric about the "widows and orphans", but I have never seen it in real life.  I know of one second wife here (in the West), and she is at least 20 years younger (no children) than the first wife. 

There was a poster on here who had 3 or 4 siblings (one had a serious mental health disorder) and a mom who had to work out of the house and a father who also worked.  He had a second wife who he used to visit for months at a time (leave his work), as she was in Iran.  Again, she was younger with no children.  The poster and her family, along with everything else that goes with missing a supporting father,  got hit with a significant economic blow.   They really struggled financially and emotionally. 

Yes, I will agree that ego is definitely in play here.... just not the way you presented it.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Maryaam

[Maryaam]

8 minutes ago, starlight said:

So you think financial support is the only need of a single woman? She doesn't need emotional support? Or help with raising her children if she has any? Or companionship? 

[Edit] I have been reading your posts, in this thread and others and it makes me wonder what makes you so think so negatively of men.The world isn't such a bad place. 

I have definitely not always agreed with sister Timeless, but have never gotten the impression that she thinks negatively of men.  What a strange thing to say.