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AmirioTheMuzzy

Why is Shia Jafari fiqh misrepresented on IslamQA?

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What is it with all these fatwa sites and their misrepresentation of Twelver Shia fiqh and declaring takfir on us? The next time I read "they believe that the Qur'an is distorted" and other misinformation, I swear I'm going to lose my mind!

I am yet to find one where they accurately presented Twelver Shi'ism. Why is this the case?

Is their truth to their claims?

JazakAllah Khair

Wassalam

Edit:
E.g.
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/620
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/101272/the-status-of-the-Imams-of-the-ithna-ashari-shiah
http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/30746

However, there are some outliers:
http://www.daruliftaa.com/node/5411?txt_QuestionID=
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/mahmoodiyah/54073
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/85941

p.s. I think they do the same thing with Ismaili and Sufi, but I don't know much about these schools of thought, so I won't discuss that.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
Examples

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Hello.

Islam Q&A is supervised by Muhammad Al-Munajjid, a famous Salafi scholar widely known for his peculiar fatwas - he not only excels in lying about the Sh'ia - rather, he has similar fatwas on slavery, women and homosexuality.

So, it's not strange coming from a Salafi scholar.

Here's one of his famous videos:

 

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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2 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

he has similar fatwas on slavery, women and homosexuality.

Could you kindly explain how Salafi fawas differ from mainstream Sunni and Shia fatwas on these issues? If you go on iqraonline.com , you'll find that to become a slave isn't limited to just war like it is in Sunnism. 

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3 hours ago, Guest Enquirer said:

Could you kindly explain how Salafi fawas differ from mainstream Sunni and Shia fatwas on these issues? If you go on iqraonline.com , you'll find that to become a slave isn't limited to just war like it is in Sunnism. 

The website seems to be run by followers of Muhammad Baqir 'Al-Sadir and Khomeini, and I respectfully disagree with their fatwas.

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12 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Hello.

Islam Q&A is supervised by Muhammad Al-Munajjid, a famous Salafi scholar widely known for his peculiar fatwas - he not only excels in lying about the Sh'ia - rather, he has similar fatwas on slavery, women and homosexuality.

So, it's not strange coming from a Salafi scholar.

Here's one of his famous videos:

 

Al munajjid manages islamqa.info not islamqa.org, which the OP cites. 

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7 hours ago, just a Muslim said:

Al munajjid manages islamqa.info not islamqa.org, which the OP cites. 

 

I cited both, but I was mainly referring to islamqa.info. Islamqa.org is a collection of fatawa from different websites (see the indexed websites below). Some of the fatawa on islamqa.org do not call Twelvers kaffir. However, Islamqa.info, a Salafi website, does make Takfir on Twelvers, and the answers on Islamqa.info are supervised by Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid https://islamqa.info/en/about-director

 


Indexed websites of islamqa.org:

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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6 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I do not think you'd find a great deal of differences on issues relating to these to be honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Al-Munajjid#Views

I don't think any non-Salafi Sunni scholar or Shia scholar would agree with his views

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36 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Al-Munajjid#Views

I don't think any non-Salafi Sunni scholar or Shia scholar would agree with his views

Homosexual acts are also liable for the death penalty in Shia fiqh. Slavery also has not been abolished per se.

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16 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Homosexual acts are also liable for the death penalty in Shia fiqh. Slavery also has not been abolished per se.

Yeah, but we STRONGLY DISAGREE with the following: "Homosexuals should be executed although the method has been disputed including burning, having a wall dropped on them, being detained until death in the "foulest place", being stoned, or being thrown from the highest building."

"The [Salafi] scholars are unanimous in this assessment [that your wife cannot object to you having a (sex) slave], and no one is permitted to view this act as forbidden, or to forbid it. Whoever does so, is a sinner, and is acting against the consensus of the [Salafi] scholars"

"...slavery necessarily came about because of Jihad against the kuffar (non-believers) and the need to determine what to do with those who have been taken prisoner and thus become property" <---There's no way that this is true. Slavery was obviously a thing before Islam, and Allah presents us with how to deal with it in a practical way...

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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30 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yeah, but we STRONGLY DISAGREE with the following: "Homosexuals should be executed although the method has been disputed including burning, having a wall dropped on them, being detained until death in the "foulest place", being stoned, or being thrown from the highest building."

"The [Salafi] scholars are unanimous in this assessment [that your wife cannot object to you having a (sex) slave], and no one is permitted to view this act as forbidden, or to forbid it. Whoever does so, is a sinner, and is acting against the consensus of the [Salafi] scholars"

"...slavery necessarily came about because of Jihad against the kuffar (non-believers) and the need to determine what to do with those who have been taken prisoner and thus become property" <---There's no way that this is true. Slavery was obviously a thing before Islam, and Allah presents us with how to deal with it in a practical way...

Could you care to explain why buying and selling slaves is under the same chapter as commerce of buying inanimate items in al-Kafi? In Islam, slaves do become property. Allama Tabatabai' himself has said that if a slave man and woman marry, the owner can ask them to separate and he can have the woman. You are basically owning another human being, barring certain freedoms they have, such as religious freedom and other human rights. For more, just read the website:

http://www.iqraonline.net/the-issue-of-slavery-in-contemporary-Islam/

I personally believe that in the past when it existed, Islam taught consent for sexual relations with slave women. I consider the idea that there was no consent and one could force themselves upon a slave woman as sickening, it is no different to rape and sexual abuse and a slander against Islam that non-Muslims peddle. 

Sayed Sistani has been on the news calling on men who confess/have the witnesses under an Islamic rule and court for homosexuality to be executed "in the worst, most severe way of killing" 

 

 

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Of the indexed websites on islamqa.org, here are each websites position regarding mainstream Jafari (Twelver) Shia, from my Shia perspective of what our beliefs actually are:

Note 1: This is a simplified practical guide for discussion with Sunnis
Note 2: Each website is archived on IslamQA.org
Note 3: Sites in smaller font only occasionally put mainstream Shia beliefs into that particular group.

Jafari Shia = Kafir*, do not associate with them:
Muftionline.co.za
Askmufti.co.za

Jafari Shia = Kafir, you may associate with them, but with strong limits**
Askimam.org
Muftisays.com
Darulifta-Deoband.org
Daruliftaa.com


Jafari Shia = Muslim, but strong limits on interactions with them***:
Mahmoodiyah.org.za [Website no longer available]
Darulifta-Deoband.org
Daruliftaa.com

Shia = Muslim, virtually no limits on interactions with them****
Seekersguidance.org


*generally, the ruling is: Muslims and Shia are poles apart (totally different). Do not do the following (either due to impressibility or out of precaution): Do not eat their food. Avoid living with them. Do not associate or free-mix with them. Do not marry with them. Zakaat is only for eligible Muslims, not Shias. DO NOT perform Janaazah Salah upon them. They CANNOT be buried in Muslim graveyards. DO NOT pray Salah behind them. Etc.

**generally, the ruling is: They are non-Muslim even if they don't fall into our criteria of kaffir, such as belief that Qur'an is altered, first three khalifas were murtads, etc. This is because they do taqiyya (we are all liars basically, and its built into our sect, so there's no way of knowing what we truly believe), thus all Shia are kuffar.

Thus, you CANNOT be close friends with them (or any personal/close relationship). But, have good conduct and character with them. I.e. no "bosum" relationships. Do NOT marry them. Try to make Dawah to them. Their meats may or may not be permissible. Etc.

Caution: Regardless of wether or not the Taqiyya issue is true, they are inconsistent, occasionally putting mainstream Shia beliefs like divinely appointed-ness, infallibility, knowledge equal to Prophets, special powers of the Imams (A) in the Kafir category aswell, making us definitely kuffar. e.g. Askimam.org

***generally, this second ruling goes like this: They are Muslim if they do not have Ghulat beliefs, if they do not believe Qur'an is distorted or incomplete, and if they do not make blatantly false accusations against Sahaba, e.g. Aisha was an adulterer, and/or Abu Bakr was not a Sahabi. However, they are severely misguided, thus NOT part of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaat, because they use inappropriate language against the Sahaba, and undermine the status of Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthmaan.

Thus, you CANNOT be close friends with them (or any personal/close relationship). But, have good conduct and character with them. I.e. no "bosum" relationships. Do NOT donate carpets to their places of worship. Avoid marriages with them. Try to make Dawah to them. Their meats may or may not be permissible. Etc. 

Caution: Sometimes this is inconsistent, and they occasionally, (erroneously) put mainstream Shia beliefs like divinely appointed-ness, infallibility, knowledge equal to Prophets, special powers of the Imams (A) in the Kafir category, making takfir on all Twelver Shias. e.g. Darulifta-Deoband.org OR thinking that the khalips and Aisha sinned, e.g. Daruliftaa.com

Note: The first three groups I have mentioned, agree on the following for marriage: Out of precaution, ensure they fully leave Shia practices, and are sincere in Sunni beliefs. I.e. not just "leaving" shi'ism for marriage. But, excercise maximum caution, even if they repent for their Shia beliefs, because they have the habit of taqiyya.

****Sunni-Shia marriages are Permissible. Though, in such marriages, there can be considerations of (1) compability, given the differences in beliefs and practice; and (2) life decisions–especially regarding upbringing of children and social relationships. Given the considerations in such cases, please consult reliable local scholars about the specifics of the situation.

Close friendships are also allowed with them. Try to make Dawah to them. Etc.



This one by AskImam is a gem: "To enter into a partnership with a Kaafir is permissible. However, our advise to you would be not to enter into such a partnership. Shias are known to be treacherous, and regard it as a virtue to harm Muslims." https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/16417

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3 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yeah, but we STRONGLY DISAGREE with the following: "Homosexuals should be executed although the method has been disputed including burning, having a wall dropped on them, being detained until death in the "foulest place", being stoned, or being thrown from the highest building."

 

From Ayatullah Khoei

2747. If an adult and sane person commits sodomy with another adult and sane person, both of them should be killed. And the religious Head can kill the person guilty of sodomy with a sword, or burn him alive, or tie his hands and feet and hurl him down from a high place, and under the conditions mentioned in Article 2795 can lapidate him

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/punishment-prescribed-certain-sins

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1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

From Ayatullah Khoei

2747. If an adult and sane person commits sodomy with another adult and sane person, both of them should be killed. And the religious Head can kill the person guilty of sodomy with a sword, or burn him alive, or tie his hands and feet and hurl him down from a high place, and under the conditions mentioned in Article 2795 can lapidate him

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/punishment-prescribed-certain-sins

That's brutal :( Burning people alive and throwing people off buildings.

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On 4/14/2019 at 3:33 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

What is it with all these fatwa sites and their misrepresentation of Twelver Shia fiqh and declaring takfir on us? The next time I read "they believe that the Qur'an is distorted" and other misinformation, I swear I'm going to lose my mind!

Because they are Salafi and paid with petro-dollars. Why should their lies concern you, me or anybody else on this forum?

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2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Because they are Salafi and paid with petro-dollars. Why should their lies concern you, me or anybody else on this forum?

It feels more and more like the mainstream Sunni position is that Shias are kuffar.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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4 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It certainly does but that is not true. Louder crowds tend to appear bigger.

True. Good reminder. Do you know which mainstream Sunni sources are honest about Shia fiqh though? So far only seekersguidance.org view Shias the same way we view Sunnis, but they do not elaborate much. I would like to respond to those who insist we are kafirs... Even after I prove that we are not amongst the kuffar, they will say "whatever, our ulema is in agreeance, and send me a link to one of those fatwas, despite them probably not even knowing or following these people. The only way to respond to stuff like that is to show them many different fatwa that prove that we are Muslim.

ACTUALLY, you know what... I understand what you are saying... I shouldn't waste my time on this stuff... when you show them the Amman message, they will say that its a political stunt... there's no changing their minds unfortunately.

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29 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

ACTUALLY, you know what... I understand what you are saying... I shouldn't waste my time on this stuff... when you show them the Amman message, they will say that its a political stunt... there's no changing their minds unfortunately.

Exactly, brother. It is a waste getting upset over what others think of us. 

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