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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Obviously, we all know that Zina or sex outside of marriage is haram. I think I found out why today. 

Non-Muslims have no shame in having 10, 20, even 50 different sexual partners and they think it’s all fun. Zina make sexual intimacy between a husband and wife cheap. I always wondered why sex before marriage was a sin if you were going to get married to that person, however most people who commit Zina aren’t intending to get married, at least not right away, and that’s why Allah says that it’s an indecency and an evil way. 

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Guest Itzme101

What about some people having mutah with multiple people before marriage?

What about the zina of the eyes which a lot of people do because marriage has been made so difficult in the Muslim community?

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4 hours ago, Guest Itzme101 said:

at about some people having mutah with multiple people before marriage?

Muta doesn’t have any relation to Zina but doing it with multiple people not recommended 

 

4 hours ago, Guest Itzme101 said:

What about the zina of the eyes which a lot of people do because marriage has been made so difficult in the Muslim community?

It’s a great problem in our societies because even if you don’t want to do it anyway you will face it in any media randomly .

we have a famous poem from famous persian Poet Baba Tahir that it’s translation is something like as this 

زدست دیده و دل هر دو فریاد
که هر چه دیده بیند دل کند یاد
 
بسازم خنجری نیشش ز فولاد
زنم بر دیده تا دل گردد آزاد

“ Oh from Eye & heart that everything that eye sees heart wants it      I will male a steel dagger & hit my eyes with it in order to my heart becomes free”

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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17 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Obviously, we all know that Zina or sex outside of marriage is haram. I think I found out why today. 

Non-Muslims have no shame in having 10, 20, even 50 different sexual partners and they think it’s all fun. Zina make sexual intimacy between a husband and wife cheap. I always wondered why sex before marriage was a sin if you were going to get married to that person, however most people who commit Zina aren’t intending to get married, at least not right away, and that’s why Allah says that it’s an indecency and an evil way. 

Salam,

Islam means peace.  Islam attempts to create law & order or control on human natural instincts so that we can survive and live in peace.

For example, when a person addicted to illegal drug, alchohol or free sex, there will be less control and major crimes likely to occur.  

 Just imagine if the rule about zina does not exist.  Sex is free between men and women.  Married couples can have children, but we don't know the real father. Men and women can have sex with anyone, even children !!! Chaos everywhere.

By making the marriage as an holy institution and "sexual intimacy between husband and wife" is even holier, Islam is to maintain peace, order and harmony in human society.  Zina is the opposite, and that is why it is haram and the penalty is heavy.

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13 hours ago, Guest Itzme101 said:

What about some people having mutah with multiple people before marriage?

Zina isn’t the same thing as a religious nikah mutah. One is an unlawful sexual intercourse, the other is a legal marriage between two consenting adults that comes with consequences and rules. “Whataboutism” is not a valid argument. Nikah mutah isn’t meant as a substitute for the relationships before or during marriage. If some Muslim uses nikah mutah for the sole purpose of sexual gratification instead of a nikah, then he will answer for his intentions and actions on the Judgment Day.

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11 hours ago, layman said:

Salam,

Islam means peace.  Islam attempts to create law & order or control on human natural instincts so that we can survive and live in peace.

For example, when a person addicted to illegal drug, alchohol or free sex, there will be less control and major crimes likely to occur.  

 Just imagine if the rule about zina does not exist.  Sex is free between men and women.  Married couples can have children, but we don't know the real father. Men and women can have sex with anyone, even children !!! Chaos everywhere.

By making the marriage as an holy institution and "sexual intimacy between husband and wife" is even holier, Islam is to maintain peace, order and harmony in human society.  Zina is the opposite, and that is why it is haram and the penalty is heavy.

You've said it very well.

I'd also add that like pornography, the ultimate role it has in society is a destruction of the family. It appears innocent on the surface, what could be more natural than sex right? but things are way more serious (and aren't as simple) than that when you get down the specifics and the way that ideas perpetuate a culture. 

What we have over in the mainstream Western world is people who can't commit, people who share nothing in common and people who have no sense of self-discipline and also people who end up loosing any sense of value to their sexuality (were it just gets thrown around as a inclination-based pleasure rather than anything personally or spiritually significant). 

Sex is a holy thing and I wish more people these days would realize it. Sex is also a powerful and very beautiful thing. But the insentient obsession with it in the West definitely has turned it into a carnal, capitalistic (hence prostitution) downfall of family.

Edited by HakimPtsid

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Guest AbdulKarim_NolaATX
On 4/11/2019 at 9:32 PM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Obviously, we all know that Zina or sex outside of marriage is haram. I think I found out why today. 

Non-Muslims have no shame in having 10, 20, even 50 different sexual partners and they think it’s all fun. Zina make sexual intimacy between a husband and wife cheap. I always wondered why sex before marriage was a sin if you were going to get married to that person, however most people who commit Zina aren’t intending to get married, at least not right away, and that’s why Allah says that it’s an indecency and an evil way. 

Bismillah 

 

Asalaam wa laikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu 

 

May Allah shower his mercy and blessings upon Muhammad and his family. 

 

Zina is haraam first and foremost because Allah deems it haraam which means there can never be any good to come from it in any society at any period of time. The Sin and it’s negatives outweighs the uncontrollable gratification that man may find in it. 

 

Zina is a characteristic of the unbelievers so like all the other sins it serves as a form of rebellion against Allahs sovereignty and kingdom. The sin means something different to unbelievers than it does for the believers. 

 

Allah Ta’ala has made copulation between man and woman a holy process. This desire serves as the natural and holy process of transitioning souls to the Earth. The woman’s womb serves as a star-gate. This is how Allah sends his perfect believing souls. Zina and adultery acts as an impurity to the entire process of sending such a perfected soul. Shaitan then has a claim and So there is a higher chance of a soul entering the world from such a unclean act becoming an unbeliever and rebelling against Allah. This explains why the punishment for such crime is stern in the Holy Qur'an. Repentance is not only detrimental for the participants of such crime but also for the possible soul that could be born from such crime in its chances of being a believer. 

 

Imam Ja’far AS has said there are three signs of a person born from adultery. 1. The person has a tendency to harm people. 2 The person also looks to engage in adultery and 3. The person has ill will towards the Ahlul Bayt. 

 

I can go into many sub topics of Zina and why it’s haraam and it’s plague upon societies but I’m sure you can understand and can further your knowledge insh’Allah. If you have any questions feel free to ask Insha’Allah. 

 

May Allah have mercy on the believing men and women. 

 

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6 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

What we have over in the mainstream Western world is people who can't commit,

This is very true. In another forum I was on (I wrote a recent thread on it) many people pointed out how “in love” I was with my husband. What they meant was they’d never seen commitment like that, especially at my age. Actually, I don’t think my or anyone else’s age is the main factor. Non-Muslims who live together before marriage and commit Zina are, as a whole, less likely to commit to their marriages. Even the couples who were together years before marriage have no problem divorcing only a few years after over nothing. Lack of commitment is the number one reason most marriages today end in divorce—not abuse, not alcoholism—commitment. 

I even mentioned there that the mindset to commit must be there prior to marriage, or else even marriages will fail to work out. Obviously, I was met with resistance and was told something along the lines of people “need to date lots of people and discover what they want.” They even encouraged another woman in her early twenties to leave her seven year relationship all because she was getting a bit bored, and that most people shouldn’t stay with someone they dated since high school. 

They have no problem telling others to leave their relationships over juvenile things such as boredom and wanting to “travel and find one’s self.”

Not to mention that many men and women have likely had sexual partners in the double digits by the time they are in their mid-twenties. Do they really think that they are built for marriage and commitment? 

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Salam, 

Most of your arguments are based on a flawed assumption: sex is special thing. 

Sex is special, it is as special as food. No more, no less. If you don't make a big deal about eating a variety of Halal food, then you shouldn't make a big deal about having Halal sex with a variety of people. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong,  strange, or undesirable with Muta'a. There are multiple authentic narrations that encourage Muta'a and consider it mustahab.

Zina is as forbidden as eating Haram food. Like eating Haram food, Zina is bad because it's beyond the boundary of God's permitted blessings. Just as there are specific criteria that make food Halal, there are specific criteria that make sex halal. And Nikah isn't a necessary requirement. Our problem is, we've come to define "marriage" in a Christian way. A better word would be "coupling." "Marriage" comes with a baggage of concepts and ideas, many of which are highly influenced by non-Islamic cultures. We can "couple", according to the given criteria, and as couples we can have sex, without any problem. 

We should treat sex as casualty as we treat food. They're both blessings from God. We can have plenty of both, and different varieties. 

To think of sex as something extraordinary is to Christianize sex. Early Christian opponents of Islam and The Prophet considered him a pervert for his sexual teachings and partners. We must not hold a Christian view of sex. 

Even today, Catholics view the main purpose of sex as procreative. If one doesn't have sex for procreative purposes, then one shouldn't have it. 

In Islam, Halal sex, even just for pleasure and unitive purposes, is good and encouraged. 

Edited by SoRoUsH

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11 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

Salam, 

Most of your arguments are based on a flawed assumption: sex is special thing. 

Sex is special, it is as special as food. No more, no less. If you don't make a big deal about eating a variety of Halal food, then you shouldn't make a big deal about having Halal sex with a variety of people. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong,  strange, or undesirable with Muta'a. 

Zina is as forbidden as eating Haram food. Like eating Haram food, Zina is bad because it's beyond the boundary of God's permitted blessings. 

We should treat sex as casualty as we treat food. They're both blessings from God. We can have plenty of both, and different varieties. 

To think of sex as something extraordinary is to Christianize sex. Early Christian opponents of Islam and The Prophet considered him a pervert for his sexual teachings and partners. We must not hold a Christian view of sex. 

Even today, Catholics view the main purpose of sex as procreative. If one doesn't have sex for procreative purposes, then one shouldn't have it. 

In Islam, Halal sex, even just for pleasure and unitive purposes, is good and encouraged. 

I’m confused... you’re saying that sex is not special? That to think of sex as something special to only be shared by a husband and wife (mutah or Nikah) is to “Christianize” it? I’ve never heard such bollocks in my life. 

Of course sex is special and to not be cheaply given away to some stranger, mutah or through a one-night stand. Your body (and sex) is worth more than that. The intention of mutah is to make a halal alternative for those who can’t afford to get married permanently, not so one can sleep around. If one’s intention of mutah IS to sleep around, then this is no better than the non-Muslims who have haram encounters and selfishly “test run” a relationship.  

Studies have shown that the less partners one has prior to permanent marriage, the more likely the marriage is to be successful and couples rate highly their marriage satisfaction. Couples who have even had 5-10 partners increase their divorce rate significantly. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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19 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

Salam, 

Most of your arguments are based on a flawed assumption: sex is special thing. 

Sex is special, it is as special as food. No more, no less. If you don't make a big deal about eating a variety of Halal food, then you shouldn't make a big deal about having Halal sex with a variety of people. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong,  strange, or undesirable with Muta'a. There are multiple authentic narrations that encourage Muta'a and consider it mustahab.

Zina is as forbidden as eating Haram food. Like eating Haram food, Zina is bad because it's beyond the boundary of God's permitted blessings. Just as there are specific criteria that make food Halal, there are specific criteria that make sex halal. And Nikah isn't a necessary requirement. Our problem is, we've come to define "marriage" in a Christian way. A better word would be "coupling." "Marriage" comes with a baggage of concepts and ideas, many of which are highly influenced by non-Islamic cultures. We can "couple", according to the given criteria, and as couples we can have sex, without any problem. 

We should treat sex as casualty as we treat food. They're both blessings from God. We can have plenty of both, and different varieties. 

To think of sex as something extraordinary is to Christianize sex. Early Christian opponents of Islam and The Prophet considered him a pervert for his sexual teachings and partners. We must not hold a Christian view of sex. 

Even today, Catholics view the main purpose of sex as procreative. If one doesn't have sex for procreative purposes, then one shouldn't have it. 

In Islam, Halal sex, even just for pleasure and unitive purposes, is good and encouraged. 

I like the general idea of your post but personally I think it's a little more significant than mere food. 

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3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

only be shared by a husband and wife (mutah or Nikah) is

A Muta'a could be as short as 5 minutes. It's sole purpose could be Halal sex. It's special, just like food, because it's a blessing from Allah. What else is so special about a five-minute sex session? It's special because it's Halal, and it quenches a human need.

3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Of course sex is special and to not be cheaply given away to some stranger, mutah or through a one-night stand.

This is not an Islamic view. Where do you get idea from? What's your source? We've come to, mistakenly, hold this view by default. Consider the permission and criteria of Muta'a. There's nothing "cheap" about sex. Just like there's nothing "cheap" about a piece of bread, or a small snack.

Your view is baseless and "bollocks." Before you reply hastily, stop, gather authentic narrations on Muta'a, then we'll examine them together. 

3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

The intention of mutah is to make a halal alternative for those who can’t afford to get married permanently, not so one can sleep around.

Prove your position through authentic narrations of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).

Before you hastily reply, stop, gather authentic narrations on Muta'a, post them here, then we'll continue.

3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Studies have shown

Studies have shown a lot about healthy eating, too, healthy diets. But if you choose to ignore them and eat non-healthy Halal foods, you're not commiting anything Haram. 

Teachings of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) give us plenty of options, a broad boundary. Within this boundary, among Halal options, some are better and healthier than others. But the worse options aren't Haram. 

Having Halal sex with multiple partners, through Muta'a, may not be the best choice, but it's not Haram. 

I won't continue this discussion with you until you gather some authentic narrations on Muta'a, or until you support your position through authentic narrations. 

Keep in mind, being here for years, seeing hundreds of threads on Muta'a, searching for and studying authentic narrations on Muta'a, I'm not clueless. 

 

Edited by SoRoUsH

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2 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

I like the general idea of your post but personally I think it's a little more significant than mere food. 

Why do you think so? 

The problem is, we don't think of food as something special as it really is. 

Food sustains us. It's a gift from Allah. 

Why is it any less special than sex? Is it because we're regularly blessed with it and comes to us rather easily, in comparison with sex?

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3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Zina is as forbidden as eating Haram food.

Pretty sure the sharia punishment for zina is way harsher than the punishment for haram food. Your comparison makes little sense.

Food is essential for our survival. Intercourse isnt.

Food is available to all and in fact compulsory for all humans to eat because we as humans and creation of Allah, have the duty to maintain our health and treat our body like it is a amanah that we need to take care of perfectly until Allah decides to take life back. Intercourse is only permitted in specific circumstances. It's not haram to die without having ever been intimate. Its not an obligatory act. It's purely recreational and partially a mode of worship (procreation). 

3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

If one doesn't have sex for procreative purposes, then one shouldn't have it. 

 

3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

In Islam, Halal sex, even just for pleasure and unitive purposes, is good and encouraged. 

Arent you contradicting yourself? On the one hand, only be intimate for the sake of procreation, on the other hand intercourse for the sake of pleasure is encouraged. 

I think you're downplaying the importance of intimacy and are trivialising it alot. You can’t "christianize" or "westernize" a human behaviour that has existed since the beginning of time.

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