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In the Name of God بسم الله
AmirioTheMuzzy

Seriously Mohammed Hijab?!?

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On 5/12/2019 at 4:26 AM, realizm said:

:salam:

When a country from the 10% minority has helped and supported an oppressed 1% of the 90% majority (aka Palestine) for 40 years when the remaining 89% were closing their eyes and kissing the oppressors hands, then maybe you could wonder if the opinion of westerners living on YouTube videos is relevant in 2019.

I humbly suggest we do not judge based on partiality, as ordered in Qur'an.

 

Iran doesn't support Palestine because it cares about Palestinians, it supports them because it's a great political tool. You say something pro-Palestine and the masses automatically think you're a good guy. Erdogan does something very similar, he's very pro-Palestine in his speeches but the reality is that Turkish trade with Israel has grown during the years. 

Iran's funding to Hamas went really low after the start of the Syrian war due to Hamas's objections to what Assad was doing in Syria. So there's not much support going on anymore. Anyway, how many Israelis has Iran killed in the past 10 years? Then compare that to how many Sunnis have died at the hands of Iranian allies or Iranian funded sectarian militias. 

It is dishonest of you to say the other 89% of Sunnis close their eyes, the vast majority of Palestine supporters are Sunnis. The Arab rulers may have abandoned Palestine but the masses certainly haven't.

There's nothing wrong with watching a western Muslim youtuber, your problem with him is that he shared a video that was very critical of shiasiam and Iran. Amirio & Ashvazdange have both liked your post but literally above your post they both are enthusiastically welcoming a video response made by a Shia guy. That Shia guy, albeit living in Middle East, has a western accent. He's probably just as western as Mohammed Hijab. 

 

 

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On 4/23/2019 at 8:23 AM, Mohammadi_follower said:

Even if we don’t consider you as real Muslims at least we always have some similarities and common goals so we could always collaborate for some circumstances. In general you don’t need to be very similar with someone for being allied with him and achieve some works.

Guardian is not at all a paper I take seriously and this is the kind of newspaper which love to do "buzz" and love to do "scandal" but publishing such works and again from my experience from Middle East I just can’t intellectually take seriously such non sense.

Also alawites are not at all an homogenous group, some of them claim to be Shias while in the next villages some of them not at all. In general when we analyze their beliefs and their practices most Shias will hardly consider them as Shias or even Muslims. If many Shia armed groups came to Syria it is because the tiny Shia minority living here was threatened by radical groups and the holy shrines also and Assad was the only person who was not a danger for them and have also the force to take power so they don’t really have other choices. By the way there had been not only Shia foreign fighters who came to Syria. Many palestinians and Arab nationalist fighters (seculars or mainly Sunnis) came to Syria for fight with Assad but strangely we don’t hear so much about them.

Now you are just speaking without proofs even the most anti assad opponents admit that most of his soldiers are Sunnis. In fact most "secular Sunnis" prefer Assad to the opposition and if you just see a little the composition of the government you would observe that most of the ministers are Sunnis.

Don't you see the problem with always talking about unity and brotherhood and then going on to say things like "well we may not consider you real Muslims" and then expect Sunnis to not think of you really negatively. For me personally, that behaviour comes across as really deceptive and I would really question working together with a group of people whose ideology has deceptiveness in it. Don't even ask us Sunnis how we feel about that - ask yourselves, imagine that scenario in your mind and someone talked about unity and brotherhood to your face but behind your back he didn't think think you to be real Muslim. 

The guardian is a respectable newspaper. The buzz and scandal newspapers are ones like The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Mirror etc...

Okay so you make the argument that your fighters came because your minority felt threatened. That's logical. But in doing that, you ended up allying with a man who's regime raped 10,000s of Sunni women & killed nearly 100,000 alone in torture camps and not to mention the barrel bombs and all the other war crimes. Oppressing the majority so mercilessly is not going to win you many fans in the wider Muslim world. How do you expect religious Sunnis who look at this to think we can in any way ally ourselves with Shia? Would Imam Hussain (رضي الله عنه) send Shia militas to go help the shaytaan of Syria? 

Secular arabs and Arab nationalists came to fight alongside you. That doesn't help your case. Those guys hate Islam and practising Muslims. I've seen many Pakistanis who are deep into the secular nationalist hole and they are horrible people with horrible views towards Islam and Muslims. But let's be honest, whatever their number - they pale in comparison to the number of Shias who went to fight for Assad. 

His soldiers were mostly Sunni because Syria as a whole is a majority Sunni nation. His army drew recruits from the Sunni population but it had the policy of the officers being mostly alawites. At the start of the war, many of these soldiers deserted and formed various rebel groups, unfortunately other zalims stayed with Assad. Without Russian and Iranian support, his army would've been long destroyed by the Sunni opposition forces. 

As I mentioned before, secular "Sunnis" supporting Assad works against you because those people are normally irreligious, they do not represent most Sunni Muslims. 

This whole argument of "but Assad has xyz Sunni..." is like when a person says something racist racist and follows it up with "I'm not racist, I have black friends...". 

 

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On 5/11/2019 at 10:33 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I'm sooo HAPPY!

Can you tell me what you like about the video or what points you think he refuted well?

I watched it a few days and it wasn't very good. He made two points about translations but then he followed it up with 20 minutes of mostly emotional jargon eventually ending up with him giving his support to Shia militias... 

I'm sorry but some of you can say that I'm bias/partial in this matter but I cannot watch that Islamic pulse video without facepalming at it? All he does is try to use humour to make up for lack of any clear cut refutation (about from the two translations). 

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On 4/22/2019 at 10:54 AM, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Cool man, that's good. Finally someone to talk to about it properly.

1) Why would we Sunnis want to collaborate with people who think we aren't real Muslims? Think of it from my perspective. I'm the 90%.  A group who is the 10% wants to work together (or preaches unity like Khamenei does) but they believe me and other 89.9999999999% are not real Muslims. Why would I want to collaborate or unify with them? 

Can a Muslim persecute, kill and genocide Prophet’s family and their followers? No. You lot do it since 1400 years and even had built entire religious theology on the people who tormented those closest to the Prophet himself. 

If you wouldn’t engage in anti-Shia genocide, we would of been more than a magical “10-15%”. Bahrain used to be 100% Shia, in 1941 it was 83% (official regime’s census data released on 22 January 1941), and in the 21 century the number stands at 55-70%, because of foreign Sunni regime’s genocide. I wrote magical because that number is simply untrue, the Shia demographics is on purpose lowered in all censuses carried out in Sunni majority countries. For example, in Egypt Shias are 2-3 million strong, yet Wahhabis claim there is only few thousands Shia Egyptians, which is simply untrue. The same thing happens in Pakistan where Shias make up 20-25% of population, yet censuses show discrepancies of 5-25%. 

Accepting the mythical “85% vs 15%”, what kind of argument is that? During the Nazi era of 1933-1945, the Nazis and their sympathisers made up overwhelming majority, does it mean that they were right and the minority that stood up to them was wrong? 

I personally don’t want to “unite” with you lot at all, I just want you to leave us alone everywhere in every aspect of reality. If we aren’t “true Muslims”, then why are you so afraid of Shia Islam? 

On 4/22/2019 at 10:54 AM, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Alawites are not Shia, yes, but they claim to be a sect of twelver shiaism. They also are supported in Syria by foreign Shia groups ranging from hezbollah in Lebanon to the iranians and the Shia militiamen from across the world including 10,000+Shia men from afghanistan and Pakistan. For someone who isnt a Shia, Assad gets worldwide support from Shia groups and ordinary people (some of you call him the lesser of the evils and support him that way whilst trying to dissassociate yourself from his crimes). So it makes sense for Assad to import foreign Shia and place them in areas that are key to controlling the country or simply to replace Sunni populations which have fled because assad can count on Shias for loyalty. This may not be happening in the millions but it is more than likely it has began to happen in the thousands or low tens of thousands at the very least. 

I really doubt that most of assad's forces on the ground are Sunni at this very moment. Sure at the start of the war they were. That's simply because the vast majority of the army was made of Sunnis with alawites taking up most of the higher up officer ranks. A tonne of his army deserted and formed much of the opposition. But now it seems that his man power fighting for him is full of either conscripts, some of the original Sunnis who didn't betray him and then big chunks of foreign Shia fighters. 

Alawites are as Shia, as Ahmadis are Sunni. Ironically, the Ahmadi are basically Sunnis who accept one more Prophet, unlike Alawites who in their religion differ considerable from the mainstream, orthodox Twelver Shia Muslims. 

As for the rest, the issue in Syria is completely political, and not religious. Iran wants him in power because the arms flow from Iran through Syria to Hezbollah in Lebanon. The same Hezbollah that realistically fights Israel to a standstill since 30 years, unlike Sunnis who since the 1980’s all accept Israel and deal with it behind the closed doors. Sunnis couldn’t care less for Palestine and its slow disappearance. All your rulers are in bed with America and Israel, just so that they can stay in power and enjoy the luxuries of this life. 

To make matters more clear to you, not all Shias support Assad, not all went to fight in Syria. Majority of Assad’s footsoldiers on the ground are secularised, pan-Arab Sunnis from Syria and all over the Arab world, not Shias or Alawites. If Assad wouldn’t be supported by a constant flow of Syrian Sunni recruits and help from local Sunni communities, he would of ended up like Qaddafi. You point out that he is supported by Iran, the so called opposition is supported by Israel, United States, Great Britain, other Western countries and their Sunni Arab puppets. Things to ponder about.

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9 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

 

Alawites are as Shia, as Ahmadis are Sunni. Ironically, the Ahmadi are basically Sunnis who accept one more Prophet, unlike Alawites who in their religion differ considerable from the mainstream, orthodox Twelver Shia Muslims. 

As for the rest, the issue in Syria is completely political, and not religious. Iran wants him in power because the arms flow from Iran through Syria to Hezbollah in Lebanon. The same Hezbollah that realistically fights Israel to a standstill since 30 years, unlike Sunnis who since the 1980’s all accept Israel and deal with it behind the closed doors. Sunnis couldn’t care less for Palestine and its slow disappearance. All your rulers are in bed with America and Israel, just so that they can stay in power and enjoy the luxuries of this life. 

To make matters more clear to you, not all Shias support Assad, not all went to fight in Syria. Majority of Assad’s footsoldiers on the ground are secularised, pan-Arab Sunnis from Syria and all over the Arab world, not Shias or Alawites. If Assad wouldn’t be supported by a constant flow of Syrian Sunni recruits and help from local Sunni communities, he would of ended up like Qaddafi. You point out that he is supported by Iran, the so called opposition is supported by Israel, United States, Great Britain, other Western countries and their Sunni Arab puppets. Things to ponder about.

How many Israelis has Hezbollah helped kill/or killed since it's inception?

How many Sunni Muslims has Hezbollah helped kill/or killed in just the syrian war?

Probably far more Sunni Muslims than israelis easily. 

What group is the majority of Assad's personal ground forces? Probably conscripted Sunni Muslims, yh. Overall though, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shia militias and alawites and russians make up the majority of the ground forces. 

If Assad wasn't helped by Iran and Russia, then he probably would've ended up like Qaddaffi. Put him against the opposition and take away the opposition backers and the opposition would still probably destroy him in a few years time. Also Assad got lucky that ISIS showed up and attacked the rebels too. A lot of these things went to his way.

If the west truly supported the rebels like they do with the kurds, Assad wouldn't be alive. Throwing names like Israel and the US into the mix is just a way to deflect attention, sure once upon the Arab rulers and the US favour the rebels but that's long gone out of the window. And they never supported the rebels heavily in the way that Russia and Iran consistently do to Assad.

Not all Shia support him but the majority I've met surely do. Of course all Shia alive went to Syria because that's just common sense? No one even said that. But what is also true is that 10,000s of Shia militia were recruited by Iran and sent to Syria. Hezbollah likewise sent thousands to fight on behalf of Assad. 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Can a Muslim persecute, kill and genocide Prophet’s family and their followers? No. You lot do it since 1400 years and even had built entire religious theology on the people who tormented those closest to the Prophet himself. 

If you wouldn’t engage in anti-Shia genocide, we would of been more than a magical “10-15%”. Bahrain used to be 100% Shia, in 1941 it was 83% (official regime’s census data released on 22 January 1941), and in the 21 century the number stands at 55-70%, because of foreign Sunni regime’s genocide. I wrote magical because that number is simply untrue, the Shia demographics is on purpose lowered in all censuses carried out in Sunni majority countries. For example, in Egypt Shias are 2-3 million strong, yet Wahhabis claim there is only few thousands Shia Egyptians, which is simply untrue. The same thing happens in Pakistan where Shias make up 20-25% of population, yet censuses show discrepancies of 5-25%. 

Accepting the mythical “85% vs 15%”, what kind of argument is that? During the Nazi era of 1933-1945, the Nazis and their sympathisers made up overwhelming majority, does it mean that they were right and the minority that stood up to them was wrong? 

I personally don’t want to “unite” with you lot at all, I just want you to leave us alone everywhere in every aspect of reality. If we aren’t “true Muslims”, then why are you so afraid of Shia Islam? 

 

Do you think Sunnis are taught to kill and genocide the Prophet's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) family and their followers? 

Well realistically genocide or no genocide, I don't think you would number any greater. I don't mean this in a rude way but you aren't a low number because people have killed you, you're a low number because shiaism isn't really a good belief system. Sure I'm a Sunni and I would say that and you're going to obviously disagree which is fine. 

Well I doubt Bahrain has been killing you off in massive numbers (10,000s), it's more likely that they implemented either a policy where more Sunni Muslims moved in or caused Shia to leave. 

Well I don't know the specifics about Egypt since but in Pakistan, it's likely you are actually between 10-20%. 

You've gone into a random tirade about the specific percentages and numbers. My point was this, we are the vast majority, why should we unite with a smaller group who do not think we are 'real Muslims'? It makes no sense. 

Well I can agree with you on that, we are better left far away from each other. 

Well I am not afraid of your belief system, I never said I was. 

 

 

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Personally, I think Shias should fight back against this, we have it hard enough already because we are the minority and on top of that these propaganda videos are produced against us. This videos will brainwash Sunnis and other sects (maybe even other religions all together) against Shia's and will build hate for us... Therefore its seems the best thing to do is expose these videos and show how baseless they really are. 

I have had a Sunni ""friend"" and he watches that Naik guy, he's completely brainwashed. I've know him for 12 years and we're kind of drifting apart now. 

The bottom line is, if these videos make us look bad, we have a responsibility to expose the fake image these people are giving us!! 

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1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

 

And I suppose ISIS just appeared out of a vaccuum like this

DPSSg6H.gif

No external support or funding, unlike Assad.

Well in Iraq they formed from already present factions such as Al Qaeda and many ex-baathists also filled their ranks. Plenty of their equipment was literally taken from fleeing Iraqi soldiers there and it's not exactly like weapons were scarce in Iraq even before then.

I'm not sure what your point is though? I feel as if you're going to blame Israel and America for funding them and try and have some sort "gotcha" moment against my post. I also remember reading ISIS may have received money from lone Arab individuals (not states) etc...

But anyway whatever funding ISIS or support ISIS received from foreigners, it pales in comparison to the support that was provided to Assad by Iran, Russia & Hezbollah. 

I don't mean this in a bad way but Shias who happily support Iran's involvement in this war have literally no moral ground to stand on. ISIS is evil but so is Assad and so are your militias. Assad is the worst of the bunch with the most number of murder & rapes on his hands and that's unfortunately the man who Khameini meets happily like some long lost brother and who most Shias on this website and in the world back. 

 Do you think Imam Hussain (رضي الله عنه) would support Khameini's decision to involve Shias in this war? Do you think he would supporter a murderer and rapist? 

 

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7 hours ago, Berke said:

How many Israelis has Hezbollah helped kill/or killed since it's inception?

Hundreds, considering Israel occupied Lebanon for years. 

Quote

How many Sunni Muslims has Hezbollah helped kill/or killed in just the syrian war?

Probably far more Sunni Muslims than israelis easily. 

Well, with the help of Syrian Sunnis, indeed Hezbollah killed lots of Wahhabis who were spilling into Lebanon with attacks and bombings. 

Quote

What group is the majority of Assad's personal ground forces? Probably conscripted Sunni Muslims, yh. Overall though, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shia militias and alawites and russians make up the majority of the ground forces. 

You constantly keep up with the version of reality that you create, not the way reality is. 

Quote

If Assad wasn't helped by Iran and Russia, then he probably would've ended up like Qaddaffi. Put him against the opposition and take away the opposition backers and the opposition would still probably destroy him in a few years time. 

It’s debatable considering the fact that hundreds of thousands of Sunni Syrians fight and die for him. Many Sunni tribes also support his rule openly because they benefit from it. But let’s say he wouldn’t be supported by any, considering the fact that they are supported by a constant flow of foreign Wahhabis, neverendless cash and arms flow from the Gulf countries, United States, United Kingdom and Israel, then indeed, no ruler could withstand that. That’s why he found allies in Iran and Russia, the game has to be fair. 

Quote

If the west truly supported the rebels like they do with the kurds, Assad wouldn't be alive. Throwing names like Israel and the US into the mix is just a way to deflect attention, sure once upon the Arab rulers and the US favour the rebels but that's long gone out of the window. And they never supported the rebels heavily in the way that Russia and Iran consistently do to Assad.

Because? Again, you said so? It is proven by Wikileaks that the US destabilised Syria long before 2011 and sought Assads’ departures because they refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel, that occupies Syrian Gillan Heights. 2011 is not more or less than another regime change on behalf of foreigners. 

On the other note, you people are such a hypocrites. When Bahrainis rose up against al Khalifas, who are not even native to the island and who truly change Bahrain’s demographics from Shia to Sunni, there was virtually a news blanket in Arab media on reporting about it, what’s more, Saudis crushed the peaceful protests with tanks. You all only talk about justice when it comes to you staying in power. I realised it long time ago. Unlike the “Syrian” opposition, the Bahraini one wants a fully democratic country with elected officials and freedom of religion for all, that includes Sunnis. 

Quote

Not all Shia support him but the majority I've met surely do. Of course all Shia alive went to Syria because that's just common sense? No one even said that. But what is also true is that 10,000s of Shia militia were recruited by Iran and sent to Syria. Hezbollah likewise sent thousands to fight on behalf of Assad. 

And all the Sunnis I met supported al Qaida and Taliban, and many were fascinated by Daesh and still are. You non-stop bring it up. Thousands of secularised, pan-Arab Baathist Sunnis from all over Middle East also went to Syria to fight for the Syrian Baathist Party. Some Shia militias act on behalf of Iran, others went there solely to protect the resting places of the Prophet’s family that were threatened with desecration and destruction. Show me a fatwa of a prominent alim from Najaf who issued a call to jihad in Syria. In contrary, the Najaf ulama ruled it not allowed for Shias to fight in Syria and many Iraqi militias did not go. It is not a religious conflict for us, but a mere political one. 

Edited by OrthodoxTruth

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9 hours ago, Berke said:

Don't you see the problem with always talking about unity and brotherhood and then going on to say things like "well we may not consider you real Muslims" and then expect Sunnis to not think of you really negatively. For me personally, that behaviour comes across as really deceptive and I would really question working together with a group of people whose ideology has deceptiveness in it. Don't even ask us Sunnis how we feel about that - ask yourselves, imagine that scenario in your mind and someone talked about unity and brotherhood to your face but behind your back he didn't think think you to be real Muslim. 

The guardian is a respectable newspaper. The buzz and scandal newspapers are ones like The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Mirror etc...

Okay so you make the argument that your fighters came because your minority felt threatened. That's logical. But in doing that, you ended up allying with a man who's regime raped 10,000s of Sunni women & killed nearly 100,000 alone in torture camps and not to mention the barrel bombs and all the other war crimes. Oppressing the majority so mercilessly is not going to win you many fans in the wider Muslim world. How do you expect religious Sunnis who look at this to think we can in any way ally ourselves with Shia? Would Imam Hussain (رضي الله عنه) send Shia militas to go help the shaytaan of Syria? 

Secular arabs and Arab nationalists came to fight alongside you. That doesn't help your case. Those guys hate Islam and practising Muslims. I've seen many Pakistanis who are deep into the secular nationalist hole and they are horrible people with horrible views towards Islam and Muslims. But let's be honest, whatever their number - they pale in comparison to the number of Shias who went to fight for Assad. 

His soldiers were mostly Sunni because Syria as a whole is a majority Sunni nation. His army drew recruits from the Sunni population but it had the policy of the officers being mostly alawites. At the start of the war, many of these soldiers deserted and formed various rebel groups, unfortunately other zalims stayed with Assad. Without Russian and Iranian support, his army would've been long destroyed by the Sunni opposition forces. 

As I mentioned before, secular "Sunnis" supporting Assad works against you because those people are normally irreligious, they do not represent most Sunni Muslims. 

This whole argument of "but Assad has xyz Sunni..." is like when a person says something racist racist and follows it up with "I'm not racist, I have black friends...". 

 

You said that most Sunnis who fight for Assad are "not religious" but how could we know such thing? What is the definition of being "religious"? Also you say they don't represent most Sunni Muslims. Excuse me but this is not like most Sunni Muslims were religious. There tens of Sunni majority Muslim countries and practically none of them apply sharia laws this is not for me being so religious honnestly. 

Again we don't say Bashar is good and didn't commit crime we just said that those in front of him are even worst and would be more dangerous so we chose the least worst. 

Also we don't need to be on the same ideology for being allies on some cases. Shias and Sunnis could have common goals. 

I hope that answer your question. Salam. 

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6 hours ago, Berke said:

Do you think Sunnis are taught to kill and genocide the Prophet's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) family and their followers? 

Well obviously, it happens since 1400 years. When the Friday sermons focus on Shias for an hour, can you expect different?

6 hours ago, Berke said:

Well realistically genocide or no genocide, I don't think you would number any greater. I don't mean this in a rude way but you aren't a low number because people have killed you, you're a low number because shiaism isn't really a good belief system. 

There’s no such a thing as “Shiainism”. There is orthodox Islam, called “Shia Islam” to differentiate from the followers of those who prayed before slaughtering Prophet’s grandson. 

6 hours ago, Berke said:

Well I doubt Bahrain has been killing you off in massive numbers (10,000s), it's more likely that they implemented either a policy where more Sunni Muslims moved in or caused Shia to leave. 

Bahrain jailed and tortured to death tens of thousands of native Shias. Add to it extrajudicial killings, massive import of foreign Sunnis, expulsion of native Shias, discrimination in workforce, education and healthcare and the number dropped from 100% to 60% in 150 years. It is a real genocide parallel only to what goes on in Palestine since 70 years. 

6 hours ago, Berke said:

Well I don't know the specifics about Egypt since but in Pakistan, it's likely you are actually between 10-20%.

20-25%, and that’s after tens of thousands of Shia deaths at the hands of state and non-state actors since Pakistan was established... originally by a Twelver Shia as a democracy, but later on undergoing radical Sunnification. 

6 hours ago, Berke said:

You've gone into a random tirade about the specific percentages and numbers. My point was this, we are the vast majority, why should we unite with a smaller group who do not think we are 'real Muslims'? It makes no sense. 

I talk about the numbers because you cause them to be as such; from Maghreb to Asia. If Iraq was to cleanse its 30% of Sunnis, you people would of lost it, but when you do it in Bahrain, “Saudi” Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan and do on, to us, it’s perfectly accepted.

Who said all of us want to “unite” with you? I clearly said that as for myself and like minded orthodox Muslims, we want nothing from you but to leave us alone, something you refused to do.

6 hours ago, Berke said:

Well I can agree with you on that, we are better left far away from each other. 

Yes but sadly it doesn’t happen because you people have a Shia syndrome from birth. For many of you, your entire lifes are preoccupied with Shia Islam. 

6 hours ago, Berke said:

Well I am not afraid of your belief system, I never said I was. 

There’s nothing to be afraid of, I’m not afraid of Sunnism either. What Incant stand is that Sunnism has a mission of wiping out orthodox Islam by any means necessarily, and this is scary in itself because this is not normal at all. 

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2 hours ago, Berke said:

But anyway whatever funding ISIS or support ISIS received from foreigners, it pales in comparison to the support that was provided to Assad by Iran, Russia & Hezbollah. 

I don't mean this in a bad way but Shias who happily support Iran's involvement in this war have literally no moral ground to stand on.

What you seem to be forgetting is that support for Assad is the least worst option. No one is saying he is a saint.

The alternative to Assad is not going to be some Democracy as much as the "rebels" make it out to be. They too are infiltrated with Islamist extremists.

ISIS not only fought against Assad and "rebels" but Jahbat al Nusra too.

There is also no guarantee, assuming rebels won how they would rule either. Look at Libya to this day.

Point is, although not exactly Just. He is the better option out of the 3. Religious minorities would also suffer under the other 2 outcomes.

Also whether you want to deem it a conspiracy theory, there were leaks that suggested both Saudi and Qatari governments were providing clandestine financial and logistical support, in addition to Arab donors as you mentioned.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-is-Saudi-arabia-funding-isis

Basically, just as Russia amd Iran have vested interests in keeping Assad in, so too do the West, Israel and Saudi in toppling him. This is not exactly ground breaking information. Thus there is more to it than ISIS just popping up in Syria (and Iraq before it out of the ashes of AQ).

You may not want to concede it, but at the very least IS and AQ's ideological geneology can be traced back to the Wahhabi kingdom.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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:salam:

What people like @Berke fail to understand is that the Middle East is Shia, as much as it is Sunni. And maybe more. 

Forget your 10-15% stuff. Shia Islam was always present in the landscape of Islam.

So when we Shias started talking about unity, it was first of all to  form a common front with all zionist occupied lands of the Arab world. Of course here we did not talk about  Balkans, Indonesia or West African Muslim countries, even if we still feel concerned by their situation.

Sunnis rejected the proposal, good for you. Do not expect us to let go of our identity, and to submit and prostrate towards Washington though. You like Muslims playing the slave of the British master ? Well we will not fall that low so yes, maybe in the process Shias will fight Sunnis. Does that mean the Shias are the bad guys ?

 

 

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