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In the Name of God بسم الله
AmirioTheMuzzy

Seriously Mohammed Hijab?!?

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26 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

watched it all and I don't think it's nonsense.

I think the whole hyde park crew are full of nonsense to be honest, their arguments are the same. "Show me where in Qur'an does it say imamah blah blah blaah". I'm actually done with those guys, don't know who they think they are? Google sheikhs?

30 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

but none of you can actually argue back against the points the video makes then there is a big problem.

Choosing not to argue and give attention to those attention seeking people, doesn't mean we have no argument. I love your logic man.

31 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

I'm not here to attack you guys, so don't get me wrong

Love how you had to clarify. It's like you feel you are here to attack.

32 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

think it seems wise to wait for someone with knowledge

You can wait as long as you want. Just remember silence is the best reply to an ignorant fool.

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6 hours ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

So what exactly are your criticisms with the points made in this video? 

Instead of expecting us to watch that nonsense video, why don't you prepare a word document and write out all the points which made you "wow" and "clap". It's impractical to expect us to watch a video which is so long. 

Once you prepare a word document with all the points,  you can share it with a knowledgeable person who can provide you with all the answers. Simple.

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Guest ASunniGuy
14 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I think the whole hyde park crew are full of nonsense to be honest, their arguments are the same. "Show me where in Qur'an does it say imamah blah blah blaah". I'm actually done with those guys, don't know who they think they are? Google sheikhs?

Choosing not to argue and give attention to those attention seeking people, doesn't mean we have no argument. I love your logic man.

Love how you had to clarify. It's like you feel you are here to attack.

You can wait as long as you want. Just remember silence is the best reply to an ignorant fool.

I don't watch hyde park debates.

But you are giving them attention. You've made this thread and many of you have commented. A moderator even suggested to share this thread on Ali Dawah's youtube page as a reply. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with that logic. If you made a thorough well prepared argument against something and then someone just called you an ignorant fool in reply, you would likely think that the person has no argument either. 

Well it can seem that way, I've told you that I don't think the video is nonsense and that I have a way worse view of shiaism due to it. It's likely that some people may read that and may think I'm attacking. 

The problem is that you guys haven't been silent towards them though. Calling people ignorant fools, calling them people of jahiliyya etc... That's not silent.

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Guest ASunniGuy
7 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Instead of expecting us to watch that nonsense video, why don't you prepare a word document and write out all the points which made you "wow" and "clap". It's impractical to expect us to watch a video which is so long. 

Once you prepare a word document with all the points,  you can share it with a knowledgeable person who can provide you with all the answers. Simple.

How is it impractical? I imagine many of you watch movies and TV and all sorts. Even taking 30 minutes out of your day for this video would let you watch it completely in 4 days.

And if you guys haven't watched it yet then should you really be calling people ignorant fools for something you haven't actually seen?

This is your religion someone is attacking in a popular video. Shouldn't you guys be the ones preparing a word document with all the points and then looking to refute them?

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Guest ASunniGuy
On 4/17/2019 at 7:27 PM, starlight said:

Lol. If you think you can evoke a response from people here with your post, you are mistaken. Really, no one here has that much time for a video made by someone who not only has zero formal religious education but is very deficient in Akhlaq. And when we layman Shia wouldn't then why would our scholars? We have better things to do with our time.

Then if noone can be asked to watch the video or refute it and you say your knowledgeable people probably won't do it either then what's the point in this thread? You guys are literally posting about something you refuse to watch, you won't refute and you say your knowledgeable people won't do anything either. How is this any better of a use of your time? 

You told someone to share this thread on youtube as a reply. What would that have that accomplished if they came here and saw that noone is even willing to watch it properly?

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2 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

What would that have that accomplished if they came here and saw that noone is even willing to watch it properly?

That no one cares enough.  He isn't worth more than the few seconds that it takes to write a post. 

Have a nice day.

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Guest ASunniGuy
On 4/17/2019 at 8:06 PM, starlight said:

That no one cares enough.  He isn't worth more than the few seconds that it takes to write a post. 

Have a nice day.

If no one cared then there wouldn't be a thread in the first place.

Posts add up, as does reading posts and viewing the thread again and again so I reckon you've spent more than a few seconds on this thread. 

Have a nice day too. 

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27 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Well it can seem that way, I've told you that I don't think the video is nonsense and that I have a way worse view of shiaism due to it. It's likely that some people may read that and may think I'm attacking. 

Subhanallah after years of debate, a messiah has been born, called "Mohammed Hijab" who made a video to refute Shiism once and for all. You need to stop relying on these "dawah" celebrities who have no formal education. 

25 minutes ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Shouldn't you guys be the ones preparing a word document with all the points and then looking to refute them?

If you cared that much you would have prepared a word document to address the points which made you "wow". It's understandable because we've all watched Muhammad Hijab's previous videos and yeah all of them were pure nonsense and a waste of our efforts.

If you want a reply, prepare a document. Otherwise, take care!

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On 4/17/2019 at 7:59 PM, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Then if noone can be asked to watch the video or refute it and you say your knowledgeable people probably won't do it either then what's the point in this thread? You guys are literally posting about something you refuse to watch, you won't refute and you say your knowledgeable people won't do anything either. How is this any better of a use of your time? 

You told someone to share this thread on youtube as a reply. What would that have that accomplished if they came here and saw that noone is even willing to watch it properly?

:salam:

Brother, understand here that Shias are tired of discussing with people who think they know more about the sunnah than us, when their beliefs include disobedience to the Prophet himself (sawas).

Also please, these guys even have beef with one another, why should we waste our time ?

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I watched a little more the video and I have two other points to say.

1) about the scholars saying that people who don’t follow the Imams (عليه السلام) are not real Muslims. Well YEAH THIS IS TRUE. If you don’t follow them according to Shia Muslim theology you don’t follow Allah and Prophet orders so you reject some parts of the religion so you are de facto not a real Muslim. However some "Sunni" Muslims are very ignorant about that so we can’t blame them. By the way we have a lot of similarities with "Sunni" Muslims so we could always collaborate even if their faith is not valid in many points and I think even ayatollah Khamenei don’t think differently of what I said.

2) about the "proofs" of tentative of changing demographics of Syria for changing Syria to a Sunni country to a Shia country. First it is good to remember that the sources used for that are some anti Iran stuffs (like guardian) or excuse me for the term very stupid medias (again like I said previously how could we seriously take breibart as a reliable source ? It is even worst when we remember that the persons who did these stupid propaganda video present themselves as good Muslims) so here there is already many suspicions to have toward such claimings. Secondly it is good to remember that alawites are not Shias according to most Shias so again it is nothing less that stupid to portray what is happening in Syria as a "Shia Sunni conflicts" when alawites are not even considered as Shias and most of syrian soldiers are Sunnis ! Thirdly "real Shias" in Syria are something like 0,5 or let say 1% of the population ! Seriously how do you expect that 0,5 % percent of a population become the majority of the population of a country ?? Even if we take millions of Shias that would never happened like that. Fourthly it is more anecdotical than anything alse but I lived a little to Lebanon close to Syria where I met some syrians and I even met during a conference a syrian which was part of anti-government group and had an important position on his group. Believe me or not but I asked him already at this time if that was true that such "demographic changes" really happen in Syria. Well again believe me or not but even if he was really anti-assad and anti-Iran he said that that was stupid and this is even the opposite which is happening (alawite regions becoming in majority Sunnis even if again we don’t really consider alawites as Shia Muslims).

So this is for such reasons I really don’t take seriously at all such propaganda videos and I don’t really want to lose my time with such nonsense.

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On 4/13/2019 at 2:12 AM, OrthodoxTruth said:

It’s nothing new, those people never left the time of Jahiliyya. 

 

10 hours ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

or saying we Sunnis never left the age of jahilliyya

He actually said those people and as far as I know no said something about the Sunnis. Unless all Sunnis are Salafis then no one said something about them. 

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10 hours ago, Guest ASunniGuy said:

or saying we Sunnis never left the age of jahilliyya

Even if we did. A lot of Sunnis, most if then are the ignorant ones that never talked to a Shia, do kufr against us. And seeing that your opinions about Shi’ism got far worse, I think you might be as well amongst the Salafi’s that spend their time together to do kufr on those bad Shias that are so bad that we need to do kufr on them because they’re bad.

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:56 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

No!!! Ali Dawah is promoting it now too!!! These two have huge influences :(

Not really.

the whole wahabi world, Israel and the west wanted to crush Syria, Iraq , Lebanon and Iran, and they lost.

The truth is not decided by numbers anyway. They can hit their head all day long, it wont change anything.

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On 4/17/2019 at 7:59 PM, Guest ASunniGuy said:

Then if noone can be asked to watch the video or refute it and you say your knowledgeable people probably won't do it either then what's the point in this thread? 

Firstly, the video in question it's only a video its not a video that requires an scholastic response.  Also from a Shia point of view we are immune from these kinds of Anti- Shia propagandist, because is nothing new hence it does not require a rebuttal. for  centuries Shias have  defended their faith from anti- Shia  Sunni propagandist, and have dealt with everything the enemies of the Shias have thrown at us. Al hamdallah over the centuries the Sunni propagandist have continually failed in their propaganda. 

Example: Taufa Ithna Ashari (Urdu: تحفة اثنا عشرية‎) (Gift of Twelvers) is a highly controversial book[1] by Sunni Islamic scholar Shah Abdul Aziz

This book by Shah Abdul Aziz Sunni scholar was if not the best book written against the Shia faith, however it was dealt with comprehensively by our Ullamahs.

The point is you are astounded by this trivial video clip, yet you are utter novice when your own great scholars have failed. 

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Salam, 

all the brothers and sisters already have replied more than correctly on this subject. We are immune to anti-Islamic propaganda because we had and still have over 1300 years to deal with it. Our scholars of the past and present have written countless SCHOLARLY books refuting propaganda thrown at us, as well as the arguments for the alleged validity of points brought up by the People of Ignorance. I will just address few of the two points; First of all, Iran formally invited Saudi ulama countless times to a theological debate in Arabia, Iran or on the neutral grounds. The invitations were never accepted.

Secondly, the Sunni (including Wahhabis/Salafis) rulers of Sunni majority countries fanatically and blindly reject the Islamic Revolution not only from the sectarian point of view, after all it was a Shia majority country that overthrew it’s long time, Western supported puppet, and not the Sunnis, but because the Islamic Revolution from the onset calls for the overthrow of the tyrannical regimes that spend the Ummah’s wealth on worldly desires instead of Islam. The Sunni “kings” and dictators fear losing ultimate powers to the rule of a true Islamic system. Holy Qur'an non-stop calls for justice and “deen over dunya”, something that the rulers of Sunni majority countries reversed. 

Thirdly, the video (I’m not going to waste my time on another primitive propaganda) supposedly mentions Syria allegedly changing the demographics. How is it possible when Sunnis make up 75-80% of the citizens and tens of thousands of them died and still die fighting for Assad and their secular state, is known only to the propaganda creators. Before the 20 century, there were virtually no borders among the Arab states and everybody moved from place to place. The concept of Arab borders and nationalisms are both children of the Europeans and then secular, non-Muslim pan-Arabists. Something that the Wahhabis allegedly reject, whenever it suits their needs of course.

At the end I would like to remind my “dear” anti-Shia propagandists that the Shia demographics is actively being changed since over 1300 years; Rida wars, then Umayyads, Abbasids, other dynasties engaging in genocide, all the way to modern Bahrain, “Saudi” Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq. The Shia grow is not only hampered by the physical violences, killings and tortures by state and non-state actors, but also by forced migrations, forced conversions, enforced lack of possibilities (lack of access to qualified healthcare, education, positions of power such as teachers, professors, military men etc.), constant psychological abuse such as widespread propaganda and stereotypes. I’ll give few first hand examples from Iraq. Basically from the beginnings till 2003, the country was ruled by the Sunnis despite having a Shia majority. Saddam alone is responsible for the killings of over 400,000 (not included Iraq-Iran war and the invasion of Kuwait) Shia Iraqis; women, children and men. Add to it people who survived tortures and mistreatments and inherited physical and psychological problems that will be passed down for generations to come, putting enormous strain on the families and the healthcare system. Let’s not forget also about hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis forcibly expelled to Iran, on the alleged accusations of being “Iranians”. Almost quarter of a century of changing Shi’ite demographics just from one country. Let’s not be munafiqun about realities.

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On 4/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, Mohammadi_follower said:

Secondly it is good to remember that alawites are not Shias according to most Shias so again it is nothing less that stupid to portray what is happening in Syria as a "Shia Sunni conflicts" when alawites are not even considered as Shias and most of syrian soldiers a

All scholars in Iran know Alawites specially as Shias but they say they need to return to real teaching of Shia Islam but scholars don’t try to force their ideas & teachings to them also if you travel to Najaf & Karbala you will see many Ismaili bohras in these two cities that they come for pilgrimage & everyone knows them as Shia Muslims how we can say Alawites are not Shias !!

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:46 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

All scholars in Iran know Alawites specially as Shias but they say they need to return to real teaching of Shia Islam but scholars don’t try to force their ideas & teachings to them also if you travel to Najaf & Karbala you will see many Ismaili bohras in these two cities that they come for pilgrimage & everyone knows them as Shia Muslims how we can say Alawites are not Shias !!

True, even their Salah is pretty similar...

 

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7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

All scholars in Iran know Alawites specially as Shias but they say they need to return to real teaching of Shia Islam but scholars don’t try to force their ideas & teachings to them also if you travel to Najaf & Karbala you will see many Ismaili bohras in these two cities that they come for pilgrimage & everyone knows them as Shia Muslims how we can say Alawites are not Shias !!

Brother, Alawites were historically condemned by our prestigious ulama, just to name the Shaykh Tusi (may Allah be pleased with him). It was only since the 1970’s when for the sake of an Islamic unity, some (not all) politically active ulama declared them to be Shias (not Twelvers, but Shia Muslims in general). Take a look at this. They have beliefs that drastically differ from ours, hence why they are considered a ghulat sect. It’s a completely independent religion with its own clergy, theology and beliefs. This is one of the reasons why the ulama in Najaf forbid Iraqi Shi’ite militias from engaging in Syrian conflict. 

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On 4/20/2019 at 12:08 AM, OrthodoxTruth said:

Brother, Alawites were historically condemned by our prestigious ulama, just to name the Shaykh Tusi (may Allah be pleased with him). It was only since the 1970’s when for the sake of an Islamic unity, some (not all) politically active ulama declared them to be Shias (not Twelvers, but Shia Muslims in general). Take a look at this. They have beliefs that drastically differ from ours, hence why they are considered a ghulat sect. It’s a completely independent religion with its own clergy, theology and beliefs. This is one of the reasons why the ulama in Najaf forbid Iraqi Shi’ite militias from engaging in Syrian conflict. 

Salam it something from past but now they are turning back to Shia Islam teaching more than before it's just a matter of time that they will fix their distorted beliefs

Date :Saturday, March 30th, 2019 | Time : 07:41 |ID: 87243 |
17609e17074e4247ab167ee8c5740e32-1-1.jpg
 
original link in Turkish : https://tr.shafaqna.com/archives/75900

Sayyed Sinan Buztepe: All Alevis are Shias and all Shias are Alevis/ “Alevism without Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))” is a plot -Interview

/in All NewsFeaturedFeatured 2Featured 3InterviewsMiddle EastNEWS BRIEFSOther NewsShia Islam /

SHAFAQNA- Alawites or Alevis are one of the religious groups in Turkey known to be followers of the Twelver Shia branch of Islam. Alevi communities spread across Turkey but they mostly live in the east and central-west of the country. Sayyed Sinan Buztepe is the religious leader of the Alevis in Cerkezkoy district, northeast ofTurkeyShafaqna has had an exclusive interview with him about his community, their traditions and problems.

Shafaqna: What is the Alevism and who is an Alevi?

Buztepe: Alevism means following Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)), our definition of Alevism surrounds the personality and character of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)). He was born in Ka’aba and martyred in Mihrab (alter) while praying and he spent his life between Ka’aba and Mihrab. Alevism is between Ka’aba and Mihrab, too.

 

 

Shafaqna: How about the religious studies of your community leaders (dedes), is their religious studies at acceptable levels?

Buztepe: In our history, the 1514 Battle of Chaldiran between Iranian Safavid dynasty and Ottoman Turks is seen as a turning point. Before that battle, Alevi leaders used to visit and study at Sheikh Safi al-Din Ardebili’s school in Ardebil, Iran. After that battle, Ottoman Turks prevented Alevis from visiting Iran or attending madresas there. They foreclosed schools and anything related to Alevis in central Turkey and sent many religious leaders into exile. Although Ottoman Turks failed to remove the love of Ahl al-Bayt from the hearts of Alevis, they managed to create a distance between Alevis and religious studies particularly the school of Ahl al-Bayt.

Shafaqna: What do you think of Shia Islam? Is Shiism equal to Alevism or they are different from each other?

Buztepe: These claims come from the advocates of “Alevism without Imam Ali”; they want to create a rift between Alevism and Shia, they have tried vastly to reach their end. Alevism means Shia; it supports Shia Islam, Shia also means Alevi or an advocate of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)). Those who try to separate between Alevis and supporters of Ahl al-Bayt claim “Alevis are different from Shias” or “We are Alevis of Anatolia”.

(I ask you) is there a difference between Alevi in Iran, Syria or Iraq? (No), there isn’t any difference. An Alevi is always an Alevi regardless of where he or she lives. Supporters of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) are always the same. Based on old documents, about 350 years ago Alevis in Anatolia region were called “Shias”. Ottoman Turks even described Shias as Alevis. At the same time, the word “Alevi” is given to someone who is a descendant of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)). Trying to part away Alevism from Shiism is a “plot” and a “trick”. Alevi youth who visited holy shrines in Iraq met with lovers of Ahl al-Bayt coming from across the world and they noticed that fact (that there is no difference between Alevism and Shia religion). To me, all Alevis are Shias and all Shias are Alevis.

Alevi community leaders who met with Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in Najaf cite him as describing Alevis as “The doves of Imam Ali’s Shrine”. The grand Ayatollah told them “They flew you away from this holy shrine, isn’t it the time for you to return?”

It’s getting late…. Real and old traditions of Alevism believed in God, the Prophet Mohammed and Ahl al-Bayt ((عليه السلام)). We have to continue this path otherwise; our next generation will not inherit anything from us. All our religious traditions would be lost and we would leave this world empty-handed.

9e78df2f29f04d78be6dc367ae76f4d1-540x630 

f27753879b0f40cfa78faa5cac9952bf-800x630

 

a995e2c61fa44063b92b8ddb23f4f1be.jpg

https://en.shafaqna.com/87243/sayyed-sinan-buztepe-all-alevis-are-Shias-and-all-Shias-are-alevis-interview/

original link in Turkish : https://tr.shafaqna.com/archives/75900

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it something from past but now they are turning back to Shia Islam teaching more than before it's just a matter of time that they will fix their distorted beliefs

Brother, I know that Sunnis consider everybody a Shia, that goes for Alawites, Alevis, Druze, and meridian of other ghulat sects. I don’t go by that, but by what our ulama rules. However, I asked you about the Alawites (of Syria and Lebanon), not the Alevis (of Turkey). Alawites and Alevis are not the same people. Shaykh Tusi (may Allah be pleased with him), including other past and present scholars, ruled Alawites to be non-Muslims and heretics due to their weird and deviant beliefs. As for the (Turkish) Alevis, I personally (I may be mistaken) believe that they are closer to the mainstream Twelvers than the Alawites (of Syria and Lebanon). Alevis (of Turkey) accept all the Imams, commemorate Ashura Day etc. They just need to start praying daily, their women need to scarf on a daily basis, and they need to abandon following people such as Haji Bektash Veli. They supposedly also drink alcohol. I read somewhere that the (Turkish) Alevis used to be like mainstream Twelvers but over the time they developed distinct beliefs. Inshallah they will come back to the mainstream. Alawites are completely different story, in Lebanon they don’t even attend Twelver mosques preferring to meet in their own communities. They themselves don’t even have mosques. That’s my point. 

Edited by starlight
Edited out looooooong quote

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