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Abu Nur

Seeking refuge

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Salaam Aleikum,

There is this part in Ziarat of Amir al Mu'miniin (as):

مُتَقَرِّباً إِلَى اللّهِ بِزِيَارَتِكَ،
So, I seek nearness to Allah through my visiting you,

رَاغِباً إِلَيْكَ فِي الشَّفَاعَةِ،
And I desire that you will intercede for me,

أَبْتَغِي بِشَفَاعَتِكَ خَلاصَ نَفْسِي،
Through your intercession for me, I hope for redemption of myself,

مُتَعَوِّذاً بِكَ مِنَ النَّارِ،
And I seek refuge with you against Hellfire,

هَارِباً مِنْ ذُنُوبِيَ الَّتِي احْتَطَبْتُهَا عَلَى ظَهْرِي،
And I am fleeing from my sins that I have overburdened myself with them,

فَزِعاً إِلَيْكَ رَجَاءَ رَحْمَةِ رَبِّي،
And I resort to you in the hope of my Lord’s mercy.
---

1) Is the translation of the bolded statement correct.

2) Does "I seek refuge with you" means that we both seek refuge together ageinst Hellfire, or does it mean seeking refuge to Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? Both highly it means intercession. 

3) How can we resort on something when they themselves are resorting to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Or does this resorting means also for intercession only?

Edited by Abu Nur

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http://www.duas.org/rajab/ziaratimamalirajab27.htm

1.Salam the same translation come here 

2. the few lines says ask it for your position beside Prophet (pbu) & Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) because Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is divider of hell & fire

3.in all Duas Imams (عليه السلام) asked refugee from Hell fire in first person in order to we ask it same as them word by word & follow their footsteps no more no less 

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Please forgive me for interrupting your conversation. This is such a wonderful topic to me. It seems this statement may be referring to Imam Ali as being an intercessor for you with Allah? This statement seems to be a parallel statement to one in the Bible referring to Jesus...

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. - John 1:18

As a Christian, I believe Jesus is at God's side, making intercession for me (already having atoned for my sins through His death and resurrection) with God; and at the same time Jesus is revealing God to me (through His life and Word) so that I may know God. Jesus is my refuge.

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Guest Valor

I've also wondered the same as to why in some Dua, taking refuge in Prophet Mohammed and his progeny is even a thing !! I've not come across Hadith that supports such act. 

I've also been seeing(on social media) people asking  Ahl-albayt(عليه السلام) directly to give them things or heal them or such instead of asking Allah who is the only capable one!. 

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Guest Itsme

The understanding is as follows:

Allah, and only Allah is the Maalik of the day of judgement. Neither the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) nor Ali b. Abi Talib or the other Aimmah have the ability to be able to discern who merits what eternal reward. Why is this? Only Allah has the wisdom, the knowledge, the justice and the mercy among other attributes to be able to make the best possible decision. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his Ahlul Bayt are limited in every single one of these categories, and are not even a spec of dust, nay even such a comparison is blasphemy, compared to what Allah, the Almighty possesses.

However, Allah will allow them to intercede for those whom he permits. If Allah has judged a certain individual merits intercession, he will allow them to intercede on their behalf. Do they decide who merits intercession? No. Do they decide who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell? Absolutely not. The decision is with their creator, Allah, they are created slaves. Allah is the Khaaliq, they are the Makhlooq. They are honoured on that day based on their closeness to Allah and given the highest rank of intercession. 

The verse can not mean anything but their intercession, and only if Allah permits it.

 

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5 hours ago, MartyS said:

As a Christian, I believe Jesus is at God's side, making intercession for me (already having atoned for my sins through His death and resurrection) with God; and at the same time Jesus is revealing God to me (through His life and Word) so that I may know God. Jesus is my refuge.

Hi it’s mentiones by Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that Sa’id to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that people will face same trial as people defaced about Jesus 

that some will mistaken you by Allah & some will hate you too much like as Jesus 

3 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

However, Allah will allow them to intercede for those whom he permits. If Allah has judged a certain individual merits intercession, he will allow them to intercede on their behalf. Do they decide who merits intercession? No. Do they decide who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell? Absolutely not. The decision is with their creator, Allah, they are created slaves. Allah is the Khaaliq, they are the Makhlooq. They are honoured on that day based on their closeness to Allah and given the highest rank of intercession. 

The verse can not mean anything but their intercession, and only if Allah permits it.

 

It’s true but Allah gives permission to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to choose who can entersto heaven or hell , the will of Allah is above their will but their will & will of Allah is same exactly & who hates Imam Ali (عليه السلام) won’t enter paradise even be best human on Earth from first to last human on Earth & prays whole of year in most sacred places & fasts whole of his life but if he hates Imam Ali (a) won’t see paradise but there is hope for intercession of  bad people that doesn’t  commit shirk & loves Imam Ali (عليه السلام) because who disobeys Allah & commits shirk is enemy of Imam Ali  (عليه السلام) too because Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never did shirk to Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & from birth to death prayed Allah (عليه السلام) as caliph of Allah on Earth after Prophet Muhammad (pbu) 

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On 4/5/2019 at 2:49 PM, Abu Nur said:

2) Does "I seek refuge with you" means that we both seek refuge together ageinst Hellfire, or does it mean seeking refuge to Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? Both highly it means intercession.

I think it was better to translate :

And I seek refuge by you against Hellfire,
 

On 4/5/2019 at 2:49 PM, Abu Nur said:

3) How can we resort on something when they themselves are resorting to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Or does this resorting means also for intercession only?

all creatures are nothing, we all need, all null, anyone who has more relation with Allah will receive more Allah's mercies 
so if anyone has helped others he does it with Allah, not by himself, 
therefore, we can resort on another one who resort to others  because they are just a channel of Allah

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Guest Itsme

 

A few traditions translated by Islamic Salvation from Rijal al-Kashi
 


روى عن محمد بن أحمد، عن محمد بن الحسين، عن الحسن بن علي الصيرفي، عن صالح بن سهل، قال، : كنت أقول في أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) بالربوبية، فدخلت عليه فلما نظر إلي قال يا صالح إنا و الله عبيد مخلوقون لنا رب نعبده و إن لم نعبده عذبنا
 

632. Narrated Muhammad bin Ahmad from Muhammad bin al-Husayn from al-Hasan bin Ali al-Sayrafi from Salih bin Sahl who said: I used to believe in the divinity of Abi Abdillah عليه السلام, so I entered upon him one day, so when he saw me, he عليه السلام said: O Salih, we are by Allah - created slaves, we have a lord whom we worship, and if we do not worship Him then he punishes us.

 


حدثني الحسين بن الحسن بن بندار القمي، قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله بن أبي خلف، قال حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن يعقوب بن يزيد و محمد بن عيسى بن عبيد، عن محمد بن أبي عمير، قال حدثنا بعض أصحابنا، قال : قلت لأبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) زعم أبو هارون المكفوف أنك قلت له إن كنت تريد القديم فذاك لا يدركه أحد و إن كنت تريد الذي خلق و رزق فذاك محمد بن علي فقال كذب علي عليه لعنة الله و الله ما من خالق إلا الله وحده لا شريك له، حق على الله أن يذيقنا الموت و الذي لا يهلك هو الله خالق الخلق بارئ البرية
 

398. Narrated to me al-Husayn bin al-Hasan bin Bundar al-Qummiy who said: narrated to me Sa’d bin Abdallah bin Abi al-Khalaf who said: narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa from Ya’qub bin Yazid AND Muhammad bin Isa bin Ubayd from Muhammad bin Abi Umayr who said: narrated to us one of our companions who said: I said to Abi Abdillah عليه السلام - Abu Harun – the blind one – claims that you said to him – 'if you want the Eternal then no one can perceive him, but if you want the one who creates and gives out sustenance then he is Muhammad bin Ali عليه السلام', so he عليه السلام said: he has lied upon me, may Allah curse him, by Allah there is no creator except for Allah, Alone, without any partner, it is Allah’s right over us to make us taste death, and the one who does not perish is Allah, the creator of the creations, and the maker of the maked ones.

 

 

 

إبراهيم بن محمد بن العباس، قال حدثني أحمد بن إدريس القمي، عن حمدان بن سليمان، عن محمد بن الحسين، عن ابن فضال، عن أبي المغراء، عن عنبسة، قال، : قال أبو عبد الله (عليه السلام) لقد أمسينا و ما أحد أعدى لنا ممن ينتحل مودتنا
 

555. Ibrahim bin Muhammad bin al-Abbas who said: narrated to me Ahmad bin Idris al-Qummiy from Hamdan bin Sulayman from Muhammad bin al-Husayn from Ibn Fadhal from Abi al-Maghra from Anbasa who said: Abu Abdillah عليه السلام said: we have woken up (I.e. a time has reached) and there is no one who is more inimical (and enemy to us) than those who claim to love us. 

NOTE: The Imam is referring to the Ghulat who exaggerated their status and nullified their activities of guiding the believers and protecting Islam.

 


سعد، قال حدثنا محمد بن الحسين و الحسن بن موسى، قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى، عن ابن مسكان، عمن حدثه من أصحابنا، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال، : سمعته يقول لعن الله المغيرة بن سعيد، إنه كان يكذب على أبي فأذاقه الله حر الحديد، لعن الله من قال فينا ما لا نقوله في أنفسنا، و لعن الله من أزالنا عن العبودية لله الذي خلقنا و إليه مآبنا و معادنا و بيده نواصينا
 

542. Sa’d who said: narrated to us Muhammad bin al-Husayn AND al-Hasan bin Musa who said: narrated to us Safwan bin Yahya from Ibn Muskan from the one who narrated to him from among our companions from Abi Abdillah عليه السلام, he said: I heard him (I.e. Abi Abdillah عليه السلام) saying: may Allah curse al-Mughira bin Said, he used to lie upon my father so Allah made him taste the heat of the iron (I.e. al-Mughira was killed by the sword), may Allah curse the one who says about us what we do not say about our own selves, and may Allah curse the one who absolves us from servitude to Allah - the One who created us, and to Him is our reckoning, and to Him is our return, and our foreheads are by his Hand (I.e. in his control).



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17 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi It’s mentiones by Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that Sa’id to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that people will face same trial as people defaced about Jesus 

that some will mistaken you by Allah & some will hate you too much like as Jesus 

Thank you. Perhaps this is what Jesus was referring to when He said...

"Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me." - John 16:2-3

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6 hours ago, MartyS said:

Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me." - John 16:2-3

Hi thanks It happened two times the killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) martyred him was thinking that he is doing service to God/Allah , Second time it happened for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) that most of Yazid (la) were thinking that they were fighting for Service to God/Allah & they were calling him  apostate that Imam Sajad (عليه السلام) & Lady Zaynab (sa) had to defend him after his martyrdom in front of People the third time it will happen when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears to take revenge of his blood that Jesus will descend from heaven to help & verifies him in front of people that think they are fighting with him for service of God/Allah that I think your statement from bible refers to reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) that clearly mentioned in Shia narration that majority of his enemies will be from religious people that they think they are fighting with him for service of God/Allah that we can see people like Wahhabists are thinking that they are fighting in service of God/Allah that in time of reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj)other radicals even from Shias & Radical Christians & Zionists will join to them to fight with Imam Mahdi (aj) & Jesus (Prophet Isa(as))

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi thanks It happened two times the killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) martyred him was thinking that he is doing service to God/Allah , Second time it happened for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) that most of Yazid (la) were thinking that they were fighting for Service to God/Allah & they were calling him  apostate that Imam Sajad (عليه السلام) & Lady Zaynab (sa) had to defend him after his martyrdom in front of People the third time it will happen when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears to take revenge of his blood that Jesus will descend from heaven to help & verifies him in front of people that think they are fighting with him for service of God/Allah that I think your statement from bible refers to reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) that clearly mentioned in Shia narration that majority of his enemies will be from religious people that they think they are fighting with him for service of God/Allah that we can see people like Wahhabists are thinking that they are fighting in service of God/Allah that in time of reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj)other radicals even from Shias & Radical Christians & Zionists will join to them to fight with Imam Mahdi (aj) & Jesus (Prophet Isa(عليه السلام))

Thank you for explaining your beliefs. Please permit me to share my beliefs about Jesus' return...

Jesus was God, and was with God, before He came to Earth in human form. He is one part (or person) of the One Triune God. Jesus is the Word of God--who was and is and is to come. When He comes again, He will judge the world and cast Satan into the Lake of Fire. This is why God speaks of Himself in pleural form...

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." - Genesis 1:26

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:14

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." - Revelation 1:8

Peace and blessings!

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