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EasternQibla

The creation of the Light of Muhammad

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I would like to know more about the concept of the Light of Muhammad. I know that this can be a controversial topic, but from what I can gather, Shia accept the existence of the Light of Muhammad as being created from the Light of Allah. It is this that I would like to be clarified.

By saying that the Light of Muhammad was created from the Light of Allah, do you mean:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

2)   that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah to become the Light of Muhammad? 

3)   That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

4)   That the Light of Muhammad is part of Allah or of Allah's Light?

5)   Or something else!

I’ve looked at certain Sufi books, and there never seems to be a clear answer? 

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4 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

 

I would like to know more about the concept of the Light of Muhammad. I know that this can be a controversial topic, but from what I can gather, Shia accept the existence of the Light of Muhammad as being created from the Light of Allah. It is this that I would like to be clarified.

By saying that the Light of Muhammad was created from the Light of Allah, do you mean:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

2)   that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah to become the Light of Muhammad? 

3)   That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

4)   That the Light of Muhammad is part of Allah or of Allah's Light?

5)   Or something else!

I’ve looked at certain Sufi books, and there never seems to be a clear answer? 

From what I know it wasn’t created out of “nothing” because something coming from absolutely nothing is precisely the claim we use against atheists. 

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4 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

Salam Only  number one  accepted by Shias other ways defines amount of light for Allah that makes him measurable that is not acceptable by Shia Islam doctrine & this one has a flaw because we can’t compare his light with light of Allah it’s better to say light of Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) shows he is closest creature to Allah 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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8 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

 

I would like to know more about the concept of the Light of Muhammad. I know that this can be a controversial topic, but from what I can gather, Shia accept the existence of the Light of Muhammad as being created from the Light of Allah. It is this that I would like to be clarified.

By saying that the Light of Muhammad was created from the Light of Allah, do you mean:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

2)   that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah to become the Light of Muhammad? 

3)   That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

4)   That the Light of Muhammad is part of Allah or of Allah's Light?

5)   Or something else!

I’ve looked at certain Sufi books, and there never seems to be a clear answer? 

whats your theory of his light?

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19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

 

I would like to know more about the concept of the Light of Muhammad. I know that this can be a controversial topic, but from what I can gather, Shia accept the existence of the Light of Muhammad as being created from the Light of Allah. It is this that I would like to be clarified.

By saying that the Light of Muhammad was created from the Light of Allah, do you mean:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

2)   that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah to become the Light of Muhammad? 

3)   That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

4)   That the Light of Muhammad is part of Allah or of Allah's Light?

5)   Or something else!

I’ve looked at certain Sufi books, and there never seems to be a clear answer? 

Think about it like this (as you're a Christian). In a similar (but different) way to how Jesus (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is seen as pre-creation (of the universe) in Christianity, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is seen in Islam as the pre-Adam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) soul. 

Muhammad's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) soul is pure in a way unlike Adam's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). 

Muhammad's soul is not identical with Allah, no, not in any possible way. (This is another massive point of divergence between Christianity and Islam on our pre-eternal Prophets, respectively.) 

 

The topic you bring up is also a good place to interject that it has a lot of relevance to how Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the seal of the Prophets. He is pre-Adam, at the same time as he is the final Prophet to bring the original Revelation of Allah saw.

Self-proclaimed "Prophets" after Muhammad are mere rehashers or mixers of doctrines, syncretic inventors.

Edited by HakimPtsid

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19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

Like Him there is nothing. 
 

19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

 that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah

He cannot be decomposed and cannot be divided.
 

19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

He cannot be added or multiplied in any sense.
 

19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

Or something else!

وَمَنْ لَمْ يَجْعَلِ اللَّهُ لَهُ نُورًا فَمَا لَهُ مِنْ نُورٍ 
(and to whomsoever Allah does not give light, he has no light.) 24:40

This is the first concept you need to keep in mind. Now lets go to the parable of divine light:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
( Allah is the light of the heavens and the Earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.) 24:35

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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Guest Observer

and what were we created from?

Did God take our contents from something outside of himself and make us? so was there something that God didnt reach or it didnt reach God? which would indicate instantly that God is not infinite and if he is not infinite then he must have a beginning of he has a beginning he must have an end so therefore this statement that anything other than the being of God existed and everything takes shape or forms in its various lights and attributes and names is true

so are you happy now? did you not feel special enough that you were not celebrated as the Ahlul Bayt were?

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On 4/3/2019 at 3:41 PM, Ejaz said:

From what I know it wasn’t created out of “nothing” because something coming from absolutely nothing is precisely the claim we use against atheists. 

By suggesting that the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, I meant to assume that it was created by God from nothing. Atheists can be accused of believing that everything came from nothing without a creator, and so how could this be?

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On 4/3/2019 at 3:46 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam Only  number one  accepted by Shias other ways defines amount of light for Allah that makes him measurable that is not acceptable by Shia Islam doctrine & this one has a flaw because we can’t compare his light with light of Allah it’s better to say light of Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) shows he is closest creature to Allah 

Thank you for your view. God truly is not measurable. There are Sufi stories about God talking a "handful" of his light and forming Muhammad's light from it. I suppose the story was meant to be symbolic.

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23 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

whats your theory of his light?

I shall write after the weekend. I want to see what Muslims - specifically either Shia or Sufi - think of it. Many years ago I joined another Muslim forum, and also asked about the Light of Muhammad, and got a strange reply about his teaching being his 'light'. I later discovered that this was wahabi or similar. oops!

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12 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

Think about it like this (as you're a Christian). In a similar (but different) way to how Jesus (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is seen as pre-creation (of the universe) in Christianity, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is seen in Islam as the pre-Adam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) soul. 

Muhammad's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) soul is pure in a way unlike Adam's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). 

Muhammad's soul is not identical with Allah, no, not in any possible way. (This is another massive point of divergence between Christianity and Islam on our pre-eternal Prophets, respectively.) 

 

The topic you bring up is also a good place to interject that it has a lot of relevance to how Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the seal of the Prophets. He is pre-Adam, at the same time as he is the final Prophet to bring the original Revelation of Allah saw.

Self-proclaimed "Prophets" after Muhammad are mere rehashers or mixers of doctrines, syncretic inventors.

Thank you for your point. You bring up some interesting points for discussion (who redeems Adam - Jesus or Muhammad), but this is not the thread for it. You imply that Jesus' soul is Allah; this is incorrect, although easy to see how certain statements about God can be misunderstood. Jesus was fully human; his body, soul, spirit (or whatever belongs to humanity) were created within Mary's womb. This is believed by all mainstream churches (Coptic, 'Nestorian', Greek, Western). A related question would be: how is the Light of Muhammad related to Muhammad himself, and also to the Imams and Prophets. Perhaps for another thread, but this is a question I'd like to ask sometime. :)

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12 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Like Him there is nothing. 
 

He cannot be decomposed and cannot be divided.
 

He cannot be added or multiplied in any sense.
 

We are in absolute agreement. (However, I know that some Sufis have related the Light verse you quoted to the Light of Muhammad). So what are your thoughts about the Light of Muhammad being created from the Light of Allah?

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8 hours ago, Guest Observer said:

and what were we created from?

Did God take our contents from something outside of himself and make us? so was there something that God didnt reach or it didnt reach God? which would indicate instantly that God is not infinite and if he is not infinite then he must have a beginning of he has a beginning he must have an end so therefore this statement that anything other than the being of God existed and everything takes shape or forms in its various lights and attributes and names is true

so are you happy now? did you not feel special enough that you were not celebrated as the Ahlul Bayt were?

Interesting point. The standard answer is that creation was created "from nothing" - hence God is still infinite. This is why stating that Muhammad's Light was created from Allah's Light and not created from nothing is so very important.

PS. What do you mean by, "so are you happy now? did you not feel special enough that you were not celebrated as the Ahlul Bayt were?"

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2 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

PS. What do you mean by, "so are you happy now? did you not feel special enough that you were not celebrated as the Ahlul Bayt were?"

The creation from clay of Al Elbeit

The science of energy and Islam

 

Whe we really are ?from where did we come from?

 

Revealing the 10 deepest secrets of spiritual veil ( Quantum physics)

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest Observer

From this discussion I get the feel that people are trying to understand or describe this in a purely physical phenomena , they want to understand it like how they can imagine it

When you get these powerfull hadiths talking about Light of God and creation from it, you need to understand that you can’t simply imagine this, that the words alone are not enough to describe what is going on, an analogy is for the purpose of not giving you some mental image or mechanical or biological understanding which is what people are trying to get at here , judging from the discussion

The whole point of these hadith are completely missed, they are meant to give an understanding of the closeness and purity of the Ahlul Bayt to God, to celebrate them, instead people are taking these things literally and trying to form an physics equation out of and make it all scientific as if there is some in your face secret to the keys of creation there which everyone just wasnt able to reach

Firstly what is the 'Light" of God, you can’t even understand what that mean forget taking it further and dividing it etc people are taking the knowledge of the science we have to day and using the definitions of things like "light" from science and trying to make sense of this

No this is not the point or the key or the explanation or anything you can even imagine, the only ones really who can make some sense of this is those who have expereinced the various degrees of the Light of God, and this Light of God isnt God nor is it a part of God its something our tiny minds with their logical construes with our tiny little scientific theories can break down and define and understand this, because it is NOT a definition or it DOES NOT reference the science we have today and what that SCIENCE defines these things , they are so far apart and different

Light is not the electric produces thing we have defined in physics , the LIght of God is something you can’t comprehend and understand the the point of the hadith was not a declaration or definition but rather the point of it was to give u an idea about the purity and special quality of Ahlul Bayt , that they are truly unique and something different, they look and act like human beings in their time , because it was not their mission to expose themselves, but rather to SHOW BY EXAMPLE what is the BEST form of manners and act and the list goes on that a human being can do and act , and how to do it from the first to the last , they were like a 1000 terabyte file tightly packed into 100mb example , you can’t see their true nature of being and what special qualities they possess , when they were here in terms of their essence, yes you can understand their direction from their action , but to understand the mechanism of that laser sharp power you will need more divine knowledge which is not available here and will be revealed on judgement day

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11 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

We are in absolute agreement. (However, I know that some Sufis have related the Light verse you quoted to the Light of Muhammad). So what are your thoughts about the Light of Muhammad being created from the Light of Allah?

As I mentioned earlier, we all need to understand the following verse prior to developing an understanding of Ayah-e-Noor which itself is a parable:
 

23 hours ago, Salsabeel said:


(and to whomsoever Allah does not give light, he has no light.) 24:40


We come to know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself is Noor, there is no likeness of that Noor.

Whatever comes from Him, is in the form of Noor, for instance, the guidance, the knowledge, the emaan (which resides in our heart) etc. all are noor and none of them is ours, all of them comes to us from Him. Even the words comes from Him in the form of noor. There is indeed an arc of descension and ascension (Qows-e-Nazool & Qows-e-sa'ood). Our words, our prayers and good deeds raises to Him in the form of Noor. 

 يَصْعَدُ الْكَلِمُ الطَّيِّبُ وَالْعَمَلُ الصَّالِحُ يَرْفَعُهُ
Unto Him ascend all good words, and the righteous deeds lift them up.

In the ayah of noor, there are multiple ways of understanding that verse. The apparent & hidden meanings have been taught by the Prophet (S) & Imams (asws) which you can find in hadith and tafseer books. For instance, it was asked from Imam Al-Ridha ((عليه السلام)) what is meant by Allah is the light of heavens & Earth, he ((عليه السلام)) said: A Guide for the inhabitants of the skies and inhabitants of the Earth. 

So even if someone understand that light of Prophet (S) or Imams (asws) has been mentioned in the parable (mithal), it is not understood as their own light, for they are the guided ones, the chosen ones and the absolute guide is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).The mishkat, misbah, zujaaj etc, all are parables to guide us towards the bearers of divine guidance. 
 

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5 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

We come to know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself is Noor, there is no likeness of that Noor.

Salam Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is not noor he makes example of noor for our better understanding but everything from him has its noor with it but we can’t compare Allah with anything or say he is such & such but he makes examples for us to understand him & Ahlul Badr a little better.

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17 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

I shall write after the weekend. I want to see what Muslims - specifically either Shia or Sufi - think of it. Many years ago I joined another Muslim forum, and also asked about the Light of Muhammad, and got a strange reply about his teaching being his 'light'. I later discovered that this was wahabi or similar. oops!

lol, stay cool?

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is not noor

Alaikas-Salam Brother,

I think the best thing to refer you is the dua e joshan kabir. You will find in it:

"Ya Noor an-Noor, Ya Manawwir al-noor, Ya Khaliq al-noor, Ya Mudabbir al-noor, Ya Muqaddir al-noor, Ya Nooran kulle noor, Ya Nooran qabla kulle noor, Ya Nooran ba'da kulle noor, Ya Nooran fowqa kulle noor, Ya Nooran laitha kamithlehe noor"

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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Guest Guest
On 4/3/2019 at 6:07 AM, EasternQibla said:

 

I would like to know more about the concept of the Light of Muhammad. I know that this can be a controversial topic, but from what I can gather, Shia accept the existence of the Light of Muhammad as being created from the Light of Allah. It is this that I would like to be clarified.

By saying that the Light of Muhammad was created from the Light of Allah, do you mean:

1)   That the Light of Muhammad was created from nothing, but appeared to be like the Light of Allah?

2)   that a ‘part’ of Allah’s Light ceased being part of Allah to become the Light of Muhammad? 

3)   That the Light of Muhammad never left Allah’s Light, but exists within It?

4)   That the Light of Muhammad is part of Allah or of Allah's Light?

5)   Or something else!

I’ve looked at certain Sufi books, and there never seems to be a clear answer? 

Salam walaikum

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is beyond our comprehension. Allah’s Light is Muhammad (Sawas). Allah is Light but is the Creator of Light. There is no Light without Allah so the Light is dependant on Allah when Allah is completely independent of the Light(s).

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Guest "OFF WHITE"

Ali and Mohammed are the shadows of Allah. Allah created their light from a piece of his light. Their Light/Noor is indescribable. It is the same Noor which Prophet Musa saw on the Mountain of Sinai and fainted. And due to which the mountain Sinai crumbled. Such power from Noor cannot be described by anyone, apart from Imams. Because it is beyond our capacity, to understand this.

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Quote

Ali and Mohammed are the shadows of Allah. Allah created their light from a piece of his light.

it's completely wrong if Allah had shadow & they created from it ,they would limitless like as Allah but despite of their superiority to other creatures at the end they have their limitation in front of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

O Allah, (please do) send blessings to Muhammad and the Household of Muhammad,

(We seek fulfillment of our desires)

in the name of Allah, the light,
in the name of Allah, the light, the light,
in the name of Allah, the light over light,
in the name of Allah, who is He who manages all affairs,
In the. name of Allah who created light from light.
Praise be to Allah who created light from light, and sent down light on the mountain (Tur), in between the inscribed book, in the parchment unrolled, by a measure, well-determined, on the (Holy) Prophet, the giver of glad tidings.
Praise be to Allah; it is He who is remembered with the highest of the high attributes, who is known to be the most glorious.
In joy and happiness, in sorrow and distress, He (alone) is thankfully praised.
Blessings of Allah be on our master, Muhammad, and on his pure children.

http://duas.org/noor.htm

 

سْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْم

اَللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

 

‏ بِسْمِ اللهِ‏ النُّوْرِ بِسْمِ اللهِ نُوْرِ النُّوْرِ

 بِسْمِ اللهِ نُورٌ عَلٰى نُوْرٍ بِسْمِ اللهِ الَّذِيْ هُوَ مُدَبِّرُ الْاُمُوْرِ

 بِسْمِ اللهِ الَّذِيْ خَلَقَ النُّوْرَ مِنَ النُّوْرِ

 اَلْحَمْدُ لِلهِ الَّذِيْ خَلَقَ النُّوْرَ مِنَ النُّوْرِ وَ اَنْزَلَ النُّوْرَ عَلَى الطُّوْرِ فِيْ‏ كِتَابٍ مَسْطُوْرٍ. فِيْ رَقٍّ مَنْشُوْرٍ بِقَدَرٍ مَقْدُوْرٍ عَلٰى نَبِيٍّ مَحْبُوْرٍ

 اَلْحَمْدُ لِلهِ الَّذِيْ هُوَ بِالْعِزِّ مَذْكُوْرٌ وَ بِالْفَخْرِ مَشْهُوْرٌ وَ عَلَى السَّرَّاءِ وَ الضَّرَّاءِ مَشْكُوْرٌ

 وَ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلٰى سَيِّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَ آلِهِ الطَّاهِرِيْنَ

http://duas.org/noor.htm

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