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In the Name of God بسم الله
Islandsandmirrors

Can some people see angels and jinns?

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Guest Itsme
25 minutes ago, Ali883 said:

They're not aliens but jinn that are trying deceive us into thinking they are aliens. Most jinn abductees believe that the "aliens" that abducted them are our gods and creators for some absurd purpose like mining gold or something of that sort...

And where is the evidence for this dear brother? This isn't the most outlandish thing stated on this thread, so credit to you, but you need evidence. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Guest Itsme said:

And where is the evidence for this dear brother? This isn't the most outlandish thing stated on this thread, so credit to you, but you need evidence. 

 

It is quite obvious that they are jinns. It is common sense, you don't have to be a rocket science to realise this after all the shared experiences people report all around the world. I am a witness myself. 

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Guest Itsme

O followers of Muhammed and ale Muhammed (asws), followers of the most rational ideology on the face of this Earth and the only remaining remnant of the true message of the creator of the universe, aren't we better than to believe in spurious and fanciful things which are contrary to reason and evidence? 

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10 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

O followers of Muhammed and ale Muhammed (asws), followers of the most rational ideology on the face of this Earth and the only remaining remnant of the true message of the creator of the universe, aren't we better than to believe in spurious and fanciful things which are contrary to reason and evidence? 

I agree with this. It’s true that mental illness can cause auditory and visual hallucinations. In fact, I think this might be true for the majority. 

However, I don’t think we can completely deny that some people might be able to see their existence by Allah’s will. Since we believe in Angels and in Jinns, it would make sense that a few would be able to see them. So how much of it is as result of mental illness and how much of it is due to Islamic belief? 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Believing in the paranormal usually surmounts down to the experiences you've had if you don't believe in the influence of the jinn over our dimension. Old mythologies, no doubt, all come from the paranormal being interpreted as acts of the divine onto our Earth. Look at the Hindu gods, the norse gods, roman gods, greek gods, gods of any pagan religion, you'll see that the beings in question that are being worshiped have a clear agenda of swaying people away from the one true God. Kabala and black magic are basically the opening of a dimension between our world and theirs which is why it's prohibited. The star of David has two triangles submerged together, one triangle aiming towards the heavens, which is our physical dimension and one towards the Earth which is the jinn's energy-based dimension and you'll clearly find this star everywhere if you read books about black magic. The Anunnaki are a good example of an "alien race" that people believe has created man. It's not so much a question of can the jinn interfere with us, but how much of their interference is influencing the major events in our world?

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16 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I agree with this. It’s true that mental illness can cause auditory and visual hallucinations. In fact, I think this might be true for the majority. 

However, I don’t think we can completely deny that some people might be able to see their existence by Allah’s will. Since we believe in Angels and in Jinns, it would make sense that a few would be able to see them. So how much of it is as result of mental illness and how much of it is due to Islamic belief? 

I disagree with you because you should not separate supernatural experiences with sensory processes because they are part of the supernatural experience.

Auditory, visual, touch, smell, taste, information breakdown and categorization of information are internal processes that produce the supernatural experiences. Although some supernatural experiences may not require them such as dreaming. The concept of hallucination has no value in supernatural experiences and you should not say that people that hallucinate are mad. 

You have to realise that people associate 'mental illness' with negative aspects of brain malfunction because science tells them to think this way. We are falsely told to separate the mental processes with the supernatural aspects.

Science and the law tell us that somebody is dead based on certain predetermined conditions. How would the lay man know how to determine death if they were not told of these conditions? Brain dead patients are presumed dead when there is no signs of brain function, even if the heart beats and machines support the breathing, it determines in their books that brain cannot be resuscitated.Alternatively if the brain seems alive and there is no heart beat or breathing then sometimes resuscitation attempts are made but not always. Sometimes people are falsely pronounced dead when they are not. We should not base everything on science. It is the same with mental illness because we do not know everything about it.

The fact is that many medical practitioners have had supernatural experiences, as I did as well when I worked in a hospital. Some doctors have even written books about their experiences. You cannot also deny supernatural experiences shared by many Shiachat members in various discussionthreads. You cannot call us all mad in the sense of the brain or mind malfunctioning. Here are three discussion threads:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235059860-jinn-witches-female-demon-and-fairy/?tab=comments#comment-3178824

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235061027-why-are-jinn-mostly-bad-angels-mostly-good-and-humans-so-different/?tab=comments#comment-3196797

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060740-jinn/?tab=comments#comment-3192491

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On 4/8/2019 at 10:03 AM, Murtaza1 said:

I disagree with you because you should not separate supernatural experiences with sensory processes because they are part of the supernatural experience.

Auditory, visual, touch, smell, taste, information breakdown and categorization of information are internal processes that produce the supernatural experiences. Although some supernatural experiences may not require them such as dreaming. The concept of hallucination has no value in supernatural experiences and you should not say that people that hallucinate are mad. 

You have to realise that people associate 'mental illness' with negative aspects of brain malfunction because science tells them to think this way. We are falsely told to separate the mental processes with the supernatural aspects.

Science and the law tell us that somebody is dead based on certain predetermined conditions. How would the lay man know how to determine death if they were not told of these conditions? Brain dead patients are presumed dead when there is no signs of brain function, even if the heart beats and machines support the breathing, it determines in their books that brain cannot be resuscitated.Alternatively if the brain seems alive and there is no heart beat or breathing then sometimes resuscitation attempts are made but not always. Sometimes people are falsely pronounced dead when they are not. We should not base everything on science. It is the same with mental illness because we do not know everything about it.

The fact is that many medical practitioners have had supernatural experiences, as I did as well when I worked in a hospital. Some doctors have even written books about their experiences. You cannot also deny supernatural experiences shared by many Shiachat members in various discussionthreads. You cannot call us all mad in the sense of the brain or mind malfunctioning. Here are three discussion threads:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235059860-jinn-witches-female-demon-and-fairy/?tab=comments#comment-3178824

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235061027-why-are-jinn-mostly-bad-angels-mostly-good-and-humans-so-different/?tab=comments#comment-3196797

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060740-jinn/?tab=comments#comment-3192491

 

I agree.

One of the terrible consequences of Materialism has been that very strict lines have been drawn between the physical and consciousness, were consciousness is merely seen as a function of the physical. It's a very damning dogma to the potentiality of Scientific growth and causes much friction between different forms of science (like neurology to quantum physics to biologists to chemists etc). Consciousness becomes quite often the heat of the debate because it truly does transcend the material (the soul, that is, in our terms) and so does one's awareness of the spiritual realm between Earth and heaven - "dimensions" they're often called.

Materialists will just say that every and any kind of 'supernatural' experience one may have (including alien abductions, within modern myth...which I believe are non-physical) are simply just hallucinations - taking on hallucination in the strictly materialistic view of being non other than delusion caused by the brain. So that dogma will automatically discount the fact that people often hallucinate the exact same things, experiences that occur often between people of many different continents over extended periods of time. Not to forget that there is also the very mysterious phenomenon of the "shared hallucination".

There are also various "syndromes" and mental "disorders" that occur in certain types of people that hint at how our physical brain may be merely a filter or transmitter for our soul's experience in this world - being that we are deliberately made by Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to only perceive a small percent of what is actually going on in this world (remembering that what we can physically touch is just one aspect of what is "there"), then also taking into account the whole debate over "dark matter". Bonnet Syndrome is one fascinating example, where people nearing dementia (which is basically where the body's receptors go back to being like a child, alluding to how the Soul may be mostly gone from the brain) see tiny people walking around and meet all kinds of people that aren't physically there. 

I used to be an Occultist way back before I converted to Islam and it is true that there are many, many types of rituals that you can perform (some over an extended period of time) that will connect your awareness with entities and so forth, and people often receive transmissions with entities as well. Occultism itself IS a Scientific practice in essence and there is a reason why it forms the basis of Science, yet there also are reasons why entity summoning etc is vehemently avoided being talked about at all within Mainstream Science itself. If it was accepted in current Scientific world though, it would affect the current Globalist agenda too much, so it's left in the fringe but it remains "there" so to speak. - keeping in mind, that Occultism itself is oneself seeking out supernatural experiences, through strict processes of ritual etc which is a different part of the spectrum to one encountering a Djinn for instance unprovoked.

Part of our entire purpose in this life is to recognize the illusion of this world and to not live for the world, but to live for and towards Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (57:20), so at some point as a Muslim we  have to accept that there is far more going on around us than we realize but we have the free will to choose to follow Allah and keep our minds/hearts pure, or not. The mysteries of this life aren't as important to follow as the Qur'an and the Sunnah, but being able to recognize them for what they are is the best place to start.

For one though, materialism and Islam (as well as other serious religion that believes that life is more complex than the physical) does not work together!

Edited by HakimPtsid

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On 4/7/2019 at 1:51 PM, Ali883 said:

but how much of their interference is influencing the major events in our world?

yesterday some brother in creation said to me in a conversation, 'hey, are you still playing football, don't you know (he now points at these invisible things, calling them abomkhulu(grandfathers), not sure whose) that they don't you to play, you must take this ball & place in the ceiling, meaning I should give up.

all the while, I know am speaking to something other than him, so yes, they have interfered very much.

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Definitely, I already I know they have a large influence over our world, my question was merely a rhetorical one. Most of my research regarding jinn-human interactions is outside religious traditions and based on people's current experiences with them because most of the people who get these experiences tend to be non-religious anyways. But I remember hearing about Imam al-Baqir and a jinn story before so I pasted a link down to its tradition/s.

 

http://www.shiavault.com/books/commentary-of-suratul-jinn/chapters/9-selection-of-ahadith-from-al-usul-al-kafi-concerning-the-jinn 

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17 hours ago, Ali883 said:

I know they have a large influence over our world,

Salam they don't have a large influence over our world except we allow this to them like as Prophet Suleiman (عليه السلام) was ordering them to do significant works for him but they don't do anything by their wish but it's possible that nowadays some cults are allowing them to do more interaction with our world but they can't control them & they do some  many damages in regard of few works for them because these cults only can ask help from non beliver jinns that these jinns are followers of Shaitan & these cults are worshipin them & Shaitan but they can't ask help from Muslim jinns that just make good things for believers.

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Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

cults only can ask help from non beliver jinns that these jinns are followers of Shaitan & these cults are worshipin them

That reminds me of the many horror movies made about black magic and jinn type entities in the early 20th century by a British film production company caller Hammer Films starring actor Vincent Price. Those films went deep into the occult and reminded me a lot of what is written in the Qur'an. 

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

Imam Mahdi (aj) has full control over them it’s possible that he will use them as Prophet Suleiman (عليه السلام) but this time in whole world scale not a in particular land 

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Guest Itsme

While there is no doubt we believe in the world of the unseen, there is not a shred of evidence post-Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (and the Aimmah perhaps) anyone has had access to it in the way claimed on this thread.

Let me just turn focus to what some people on this thread are claiming

1. People on here have claimed they could see Jinns.

2. We know for a fact many of these could be trick of the light, explained neurologically or at worst, by some sort of mental health disorder.

3. Others have claimed only the very pious can see these things, and it would be interesting how they would respond to people on here claiming to visualise and see these. I also highly doubt Ay.Bahjat (rh) could leave his body at will, see behind his head, teach jinns and other fabricated myths made up about him.

4. They happen in all cultures and religions, often mirroring stories they were told.

 

The safest way to go? See a doctor, and say Allah knows best.

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Guest Itsme
6 hours ago, starlight said:

Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

Well said, and yet we have people on here claiming to have the keys to the unseen and to be able to see these things at will. Others have claimed Aliens are Jinns, and it would be nice to know just how many radical right wing Christians appearing on the UFO abducted series are pious on the level of the Ambiyaa to be able to see them.

I sometimes worry at just how easily convinced people are , and by extension if them following Shia Islam is based on an eye and heart for evidence or being born into it and that applies to me too. 

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